I keep seeing Minnesota poping up on potential expansion lists but I've heard nothing about them at all? New stadium? I/O?
Just a lot of unsubstantiated rumors. Theirs is the same dilemna as everyone else, find a SSS and a I/O, plus some season tickets purchaser's = MLS Franchise.
The answer is "not very". The best hope seemed to be having the Vikings build a new stadium in the burbs and then also operate an MLS team. I think that is pie in the sky. St. Paul is interested in a downtown stadium, but when I spoke with a city manager he told me all such plans were "far" off into the future.
Not at all. Just think about it. Ludefisk?, Garrison Kiellor? The Cohen Brothers? Purple People Eaters? The artist once called Prince?!?!? Nothing is serious in Minnesotta.
Don't knock gelatinous cod boiled in lye until you've tried it. Once you've tried it, then you can bash it all you want. As I do. Lefse, however, rocks. I wouldn't say not at all. St Paul is certainly not going to build anything, and neither is Minneapolis, but the Vikings still keep kicking around this northern suburb idea, and any time you have a big money pro football team's top exec (before his DWI, thankfully) say that the team is "intrigued" about the idea of being partners with a pro soccer team, I don't think you can dismiss it out of hand. Not sure if the preliminary vision of the Vikes includes a separate facility or not. The local A-League team, the Thunder, has been strangely reticent about the whole matter; one would think they would be involved in one form or another and might have something to say confirming or denying any possibilities, but so far nothing. Finally, I don't think Garber would have mentioned MN as a candidate unless he knew of something going on behind the scenes.
I think the best plan for both the Vikings and the MLS in Minnesota is for the Twins to move away or fold. It's been close to happening but never did. The Vikings have been fighting with the gov't a long time to get a new stadium, but it doesn't look like they are getting anywhere. Also the Twins are fighting for a new stadium and the Vikings don't want to share with a baseball team. Losing the Twins would probably make the city more appeciative of the Vikes and leave a big summer-time sports hole to be filled by MLS.
Why do you think this? Garber has routinely mentioned cities as being expansion candidates despite there being no identified investor or workable stadium situation. Remember Louisville?
That is sorta the point. Would Garber be saying those things just because he likes Louisville? Probably not. There has to be some reason he would bring it up. In the case of MN, he has brought it up several times now. There has got to be a reason for that, no matter how big or small it is.
A little bit OT, but the Thunder recently announceed that they will be holding their season opener at the Metrodome this year. This will be the first pro soccer game at the HHH since the early 80's and the Minnesota Kicks played there. I believe the dome is operated by the county - not the Vikes. As I understand it, the Twins were kept from being moved/contracted by the existing lease agreement that they have with the Metrodome/Metroplitan Sports Authority which was judged to supercede the rights of the owner/league to move the team. I'm not sure how much longer their lease runs or what the latest news is on the contraction plan.
There's some agreement where the Twinkies will play for another couple years - the Vikings are in another boat entirely, as their lease has them solidly in the dome until sometime after 2010. Most of the stadium plans have been layed out pretty well before: Metrodome - cheap and central, but on a rug. My own informal look underneath the stands tells me they could retrofit it with FieldTurf. St. Paul - the Thunder has worked on this for years, but as Zenit has said, have become awfully quiet of late. Regardless, it won't happen for a while, if ever. National Sports Center - they have plans on file to expand the stadium to MLS sizes, but would still have a track around the pitch. Other major downside is the perception that Blaine's too far from the southern suburbs or even the central cities. Dinkytown stadium for U of M - seems unlikely. Also unlikely that, unless part of constructing it is a deal with the Vikings, that they would lease it out for a MLS team. Also, Vikings, once proponents of this, has changed their position to against. Suburban Vikings stadium - Anoka county is actually very much in favor of this stadium, but could be just leverage for a new stadium in Minneapolis. As proposed, would be near the National Sports Center. No word on the type of turf, but woulnd't have a track (but it would also have 50,000+ seats). As for who would be funding the actual team. There are people in the cities willing to bankroll a MLS team, but well, you know those Norwegians, they're great at keeping secrets.
I see your point. What I'm getting at is that, in nearly every case, the reason seems to be very small, indeed. I think Garber's done a great job as Commish. But I'm rather tired of his tendancy to recite list upon list of cities that the league views as potential expansion candidates. This is a league that's expanded once in 7 years. Contracted once in that time (so we're back with the original number of franchises). And, if we get very lucky, will be up to 12 teams as it enters its 10th season (2005). Yet, despite the almost complete lack of success on the expansion front, Don always has a list of 8-10 (or more) expansion cities on hand. I read the same stories as everyone else. And, frankly, there are very, very few reputable stories from these cities that back up what Garber says. Now, maybe MLS has gotten a whole lot better at keeping serious negiotiatons under wraps since Garber's become commissioner, and there ARE discussions on-going in St. Paul (and Cleveland, and Houston, and Philly, and Seattle, and Atlanta, and Portland, and Toronto, etc.). Or maybe Garber's just trying to spin this to make a rotten situation (MLS's pathetic inability to attract new investors and get SSSs built) look better. All I know is that MLS's stated expansion goals are getting almost as unbelievable as Nick Sakiewicz's promises regarding a MetroStars stadium.
I believe the Metrodome rug has one year left before it is replaced. (It might be two years.) They had articles in it in both the Minneapolis and St. Paul papers in the past few months. It was voted one of the worst in the NFL. The article said it would be replaced with something like FieldTurf.
Quite frankly, though I admit my bias is showing here, the Twin Cities may just be the stealth candidate of Garber's Group of 8... Either a Field-Turf upgrade to the Dome or a bleacher upgrade the the NSC cold provide a short-term solution for a Minnesota stadium... (and, yes, FootyMundo and I have gone round and round about Blaine and it's suitability, but is Blaine really any more inconvienent than Foxboro? Or Dragon Stadium, for that matter)
If they're going to expand NSC, why don't they just eliminate the track and move the pitch in towards the existing stands, and then build stands on the other side?
Politically, the state has a $4.5 billion deficit in the next budget and a Republican governor who got elected pledging not to raise taxes. All of the local governments are short of money. I really don't see a new stadium happenning in the near future. I think expanding Blaine could work. It would be fine with me. Another low-budget possibility would be to play in the Metrodome, which was built for pro soccer. Or perhaps they could expand Macalester Stadium.
The Metrodome would be the best solution provided they put in that Field Turf and the MLS team gets a good lease unlike the Twins, Vikings, and the Gophers. MLS would love to put an All-Star game and a Cup Championship in the Dome since it's indoors. Is the field really wide enough to put in a soccer field or does the Dome have to be in the baseball set up?
Field would be wide enough. They could probably get up to a 75-80 yd wide pitch in the dome, but no MLS team will ever take up shop in the Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome.
With our new G in office there is NO WAY the Vikings will get a dime from the state. He has a 4 billion dollar deficit he is trying to erase without raising taxes a single dime. And he has been incredibly diligent in his efforts. There is no room for anything a substantial portion of the public will view as pork. And a stadium, any stadium, would fall into that category.
Extremely short term, it still amazes me how easily the Metrodome completely sucks the atmosphere completely out of any sporting event I've ever witnessed there.
Leaving the stadium issue aside for the moment, is the any reason to believe that there is an investor, or investor group, in MN? To what extent is the MLS Minnesota talk driven by the Thunder? Is Lagos involved (not as an investor, but as ... a figurehead)?
I emailed Jim Froslid, the President and GM of the Thunder about this. Maybe he'll have something to say.
The Thunder have delighted in dropping broad hints about this along the way, and this was before the Vikings were ever mentioned as a possible partner. Lately the Thunder have been pretty quiet; IMHO it is very unlikely that an MLS expansion bid would not involve the Thunder. ANY option is better than the Dumptydome, no matter how short-term it may be. What a horsesh!te place to watch ANYTHING. I still think some kind of expansion or remodeling of the Blaine facility is the most likely & viable option. St. Paul would be the next most likely, although the minor league baseball Saints have been asking for stadium funds for a while now & given their popularity, I would think they would have first dibs on any St. Paul or Ramsey County funding (however unlikely that may seem at the present).
Macalaster's not really an option - not enough space to expand, and no parking (other than street) anywhere. BTW - you can tell there's no school of architecture there if you ever attend a game there. Bring sunglasses.
Re: Re: How serious is Minnesota? Really? I would think the City would be much more willing to throw public funds at a facility for a major league team, rather than an independent minor league baseball team. The saints have as good of a park as anyone else in the Northern League right now. Why would they need a new place?