How Paul Mariner Changed TFC

They have won one game out of 6 under mariner. If you project his record over a full season, they still wouldnt be a playoff team. They still have defensive problems. They still have problems closing out games.

Hardly what i'd call turning the team around

 

I'd say it's something of a turnaround. I would be much more disappointed in the 1-1-3 record if we weren't in this ridiculous period of schedule congestion, though.

 

It is a turnaround...though one that started a few games before they fired Winter. We had a bit of a fairly decent record, in all competitons, just before the International Break.

 

Might be a string of decent results, but it shouldn't one that turns heads. I've never doubted the decent quality this team has, and i'm sure winter or anyone else could have strung the same results together if he caved into a 4-4-2 hoofball tactic. Its the fall back and north american go to tactic that everyone should be able to play or they should permanently retire from soccer. Winter was stubborn and took the time and patience to try to change the players to play a more technical style. He coulda changed and caved in but long term results to him were better then shutting up the fans short-term. I still agree with him on that front and although we have a few tie's, its still horrible football, short term shit soccer and will put us mile's behind other clubs once they start adapting to modern game.

 

I think the jury is still out on Mariner, especially after watching the first part of this Philly game. 23% possession? Winter's team beat Philly..

 

Better results in spite of Mariner, not because of Mariner. They played well enough to draw or even win regularly under Winter, some bad luck and some defensive lapses. They weren't nearly as bad as their record. We've made a transition from a struggling team with a long-term plan to improve to a mediocre team with no identity, clear direction or plan. The only thing better about TFC in the last few games is Koevermans finishing some of his opportunities and that had already started in the last few games under Winter and would have continued regardless of the coaching change, it was only a matter of time.

 

I read somewhere recently that under Mariner our ball possession percentage and pass completion percentage are both down significantly. In fact according to this blog, written before this game, possession average under Mariner is 38 % which happens to be exactly what we got today v. Philly.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/fanfuel/2012/07/04/toronto_fc_paul_mariner_tfc_mls_soccer/

 

Hard to maintain possession when the keeper and defensive now spend most of there time booting it up. I like mariners drive and intensity but did also like winters approach and vision. Too bad winter could not direct and mariner manage fom the bench, of course they would need to be on same page.

 

I will add that they have played a lot of soccer nd today they were just tired. It happens

 

We did have someone with Mariner's intensity on the bench. His name was Bob de Klerk.

 

maybe because Mariner has no clue what squad rotation is? he's played the exact same squad for the last three or four games straight despite playing every weekend and midweek. The players being tired isn't an excuse when you completely neglect your depth options

 

^^^^^

Some could argue: "Depth options?" Harden and Aceval, maybe at the back?

 

Ties are not considered a good result. You can tie your way to a championship if it's a tournament, not you'll never tie your way to a league championship.

 

He has de Guzman, Soolsma, Silva, maybe even Stinson

 

I was only being tongue-in-cheek. But that said, I argued that he should play more Guz and Soolsma in another thread. But Silva hasn't really impressed and Stinson? Not so sure.

 

I have to question the use of his bench (or the lack of it).

If Eckersley and screech are truly our best choices at CB right now (and perhaps they are) why is Aceval still on the team? He's eating up way too much salary cap. If Mariner is choosing to use a RB and a USL player over him to fill in until Cann gets back, we really shouldn't be keeping Aceval around.

And with this fixture congestion, why does he continue to not start soolsma or jdg at least to give some of the starters a rest?

 

I seem to remember Mariner at the Jun, 7th press conference saying that he didn't think this team had enough depth to rotate players. I can't recall which part of the conference it was though.

If that's the case, what does he have to lose by rotating anymore? Is this team going to stop scoring and concede more? I don't see any difference in losing 1-0 or 3-2 so ffs, I hope this guy will play Soolsma, Aceval, Silva, etc. more if for no other reason than to have his first choice lineup for the Liverpool game CCL.

 

I don't rate silva or Stinson too highly but they could still be good options to give the starters a rest. I think Silva could be a good alternate option to Johnson (who hasn't really impressed either) and Stinson could be decent relief for Dunfield or out wide

 

Wasn't that, uh, kinda his responsibilty up until a month ago? To ensure that the team had enough depth?

 

that's all very subjective. objectively, under Winter, they were the worst MLS team in history.

how could you possibly know what Mariner's goals are? from "struggling" (worst ever) to "mediocre" (7 pts. in 7)? listen to yourself, you're such a fanboy. what exactly was Winter's vision anyway? it sure didn't come across on the pitch. we got vague explanations like technical expression. his results set records for futility! at least with Mariner we've been more difficult to beat, and he has said that was a short term goal, which is good enough for me. can you imagine how embarrassing the scorelines under Winter would've been in Houston; home to the Red Bulls?

again, it's hard to take you seriously saying stuff like this - as if Mariner is the beneficiary of something Winter left him. laughable. Koeverman's scored 3 times this year under Winter and has 6 in 7 under Mariner, those are the facts. the team has scored at a much higher rate as well, although they've given up goals at a similar rate.

you pro-Winter clowns highlight his superior possession yet side-step the fact that we leaked goals under him and scored less than once per game. you also ignore Mariner's grueling schedule heavy on road games, compared to Winter's easy schedule heavy on home games which he completely wasted. not to mention Mariner hasn't had a pre-season or any kind of substantial training time.

whipped patience for sh*t and no patience once you finally start getting results. sickening.

 

yeah the Dutch and their modern game sure took Euro 2012 by storm, 4-4-2 is obviously a useless relic...........................

 

The fact that this thread even exists is proof of how low the bar has been set by tfc fans after 6 years of mlse ineptitude.

People are raving over mariner and the arguments are essentially, "we're still not beating anybody, but at least we're not losing as often any more" or "we're not losing as badly as we would have been under Winter". Tfc is still miles away from being a playoff contending team. Until they start showing a record that looks like a playoff team i'm not ready to praise mariner for turning this team around.

 

The Dutch didn't play anything close to the Dutch system at the Euro