The U.S. is in a unique position i believe.The Country has a very large population and the popularity of Soccer is growing everyday.It people from all over the globe that are becoming new citizens everyday.People from countries with a long Soccer history.All in all the only thing that can come from this,is the greatest Soccer nation in the world. It won't happen over night,but it just seems inevitable. Now the reason i made this thread is to ask when will a professional men's league be more like those in Europe.Where you have 1st,2nd,3rd, and so down to non league/part timers.I think when everything is run under one umbrella it makes things a lot clearer in terms of goals for young players and coaches.When i see teams like the metro stars play Rochester(not sure what the league is ther're in) and give them trouble,ity reminds me of the cup matches in Europe.The only thing is that,i for some reason find myself not watching the league that Rochester is in,and i class myself as a soccer nut. One more thing,i think it's time to build small stadiums for the MLS teams.The only way to build is from the ground up,and when a casual fan see's a game on t.v. with an half or even quarter of the stadium full,they tend not be so interested.Small full stadiums build atmosphere,and from atmosphere excitement follows.
Well, it'd be nice to eventually have a set-up where you'd have pro teams and semi-pro and amateur playing under one umbrella with promotion/relegation (we're only part of the way there). I'm not sure how far away from that we are. Right now even MLS players don't make a ton (compared to the rest of the world) of cash, and A-league (American 2nd tier, Rochester's division) players certainly aren't raking in much dough. It may be a while before the US can really support a structure with fifty or sixty fairly rich pro teams.
That's why i believe smaller stadiums are a must,to create an atmosphere for fans.From the smaller stadiums the bigger stadiums will come eventually,but putting games in huge quarter filled stadiums don't give the game a chance. I may be wrong,but i tend to think there is some sort of right of passage for players in this country.If you go to this school or that academy you are almost guarenteed a spot on an mls side.I could be wrong,and it's the same all over the world i think,but it would be unfortunate if so. By the way i have to start double checking my grammer,my goodness!!!!!
promotion/relegation will never happen. people are not going to spend the money on a stadium, team, players, staff, travel and promotion just to see it go to the 2nd division cause of one bad year. in america the 2nd division to us is crap. watch NCAA basketball or any other sport if ur D1 its a big deal D2 ur just an average player in most peoples eyes. minor league baseball same thing they play in 7500 seat stadiums with some gimick to get people there its almost like its a joke to some people. we are going to have a top flight that is it. we hopefully will end up with farm teams and such in a baseball format but thats about as close as well get to D1 D2 stuff.
Your comment about D1 basketball just spurred a thought (more like a giant cockamamie setup) in my head. What makes D1 special? The fact that every team has a shot at winning its conference (save the handful of independents) and earning an automatic bid to the national tournament and a shot at the national championship. What if a system like that (with conferences ranging from the powerful ones like the ACC and SEC and Big 10 and the other majors ranging down to the Ivy League and the Patriot League and the other bottom Div I basketball conferences) was used for soccer? Imagine a national pro league made up not of 30 or so teams but of 300. You'd have your big teams and your not so big teams, and your big conferences and your not so big conferences, but everyone would play for the chance to get into a season ending tournament--or better yet, a season ending league. Imagine a system with, let's say 30 10-team conferences. Home-and-home in your conference, 18 games, plus maybe a handful of non-conference matches (how they'd be factored in, I'm not sure). Then use a system like UEFA's coefficients to determine which teams automatically qualify for the season ending, say 16-team league (these numbers are just hypothetical, fix them as you wish). This wouldn't be any more matches than European clubs play. Sorry if this idea sounds crazy, I am a little sleep deprived. But it does brush aside the concern of relegation/promotion. And as I said, the numbers may be a little crazy. Maybe it would be more like a hundred teams. gs--minor league baseball is hardly a joke. There are minor league teams that can turn out as many fans a game as the Expos. It's a hugely successful business with something like 150 teams spread across the North American continent. If minor league soccer in America were like minor league baseball I'd be extremely pleased.
Kevin That's what i'm talking about.I think it's undersestimated how seriously people take their small teams.Put them up against Big teams and do well and you will build what is needed for the sport to succeed in this country.America loves an underdog and this would make the country love the sport,because there is such a small divide nowadays. Let me guive you an example. The men's national team played in the last world cup and shocked the soccer world.everyone in the world knows they don't have the flair of Brazil or France ,the strength of England or Germany,but the U.S. can hang with them without fear of a blow out.The reason is the U.S. team play basic Soccer very well,their stamina and conditioning is second to none and that gives all those teams problems. the same will go for a U.S. national league if i may call it that. 7,500 fans,shoot,i known some 1st division U.K. clubs that would love to see that number. The thing Soccer has going for it,is that it is more competetive at the lower caliber.I don't how many times i have watched a MLS game and thought,"i know a bunch of guy's who could beat this team".I don't think there is a big divide between MLS and the next league.The beauty of this country is that it has a huge amount of talent in the various communtities.Communities that are passionate about the sport,which means money,which means players getting paid. The biggest problem i forsee is fixtures with home and away games.Maybe all game scan be played on weekends so that guy's can go back to work in the week.I think it would be great for every guy who loves the sport.
Every team in MLS averages much more than 7,500 attendance. The league average is right around 15,000. I do think, however, that not only level of support but also level of play needs to improve in lower leagues before we talk about promotion and relegation. Consider US Open Cup results... over the last four years MLS has racked up a 29-6 record against the A-League. In 2002/03, the Premiership had a 10-6 record against Division 1, and I have to assume that Division 1 clubs won some matches in previous seasons as well. In other words, the difference in level between Premiership and Division 1 in England is less than the difference between MLS and the A-League. The other thing is that you don't often see blowouts in Premiership vs. Div 1 matches in the FA Cup... while some of the matches between MLS and A-League teams in the US Open Cup are very lopsided.
True.But. the U.K. premier league teams usually field their reserve players,that's the reason for the non blowouts.The level is hihger in the U.K. obviously,because it's the lifeblood of the working class .I think if there is a MLS div 2,3 etc, it would bring a sense of organisation that would make it a lot more easier to attach to.Right now i just think the loyalty is to the leahue and not he actual team,which is a waste of time.
MLS teams also field their reserves in the early rounds, for the most part. Including in the lopsided victories. Anyway... loyalty to the league, not the club? Tell that to the DC and Metro supporters, who really do hate each others' teams. Same for the Fire and Burn supporters.
generally not true, certainly not in the FA Cup anyway. Here's the Arsenal team for last year's game v Farnborough (a semi-pro team normally watched by about 750 fans) Arsenal: Taylor, Lauren, Campbell, Cygan, van Bronckhorst, Vieira, Pires (Bergkamp 66), Parlour, Toure (Wiltord 66), Jeffers, Kanu (Edu 76). One or two big names missing, but hardly a reserve team for what on paper (and on the pitch as it turned out) was a very easy game. Even Chelsea, kings of the rotation system, put out this team against Div 3 strugglers Shrewsbury. Chelsea: Cudicini, Melchiot, Gallas, Terry, Babayaro (Cole 46), Zenden, Lampard (Morris 56), Petit, Le Saux, Gudjohnsen (Gronkjaer 62), Zola. One thing you should bear in mind is the size of the divisions. As there are twice as many A-League teams as MLS teams, and probably twice the drop in quality top to bottom because of it, you really need to compare MLS v A-League to Premiership v Div 1 & 2 to make a better comparison - as well as looking at more than one season.
Noted. What was the scores in those games,by the way? I am sure they weren't close to the 6-1 drubbing Arsenal gave Southampton.Which tells me that Arsenal were either going through some strategy tests or whatever. I think you will agree that the Premier teams never look to trounce the smaller teams. I was thinking exactly that, with the comparisons to MLS v A-league and Premier v div 1&2. This may have been lost in the other stuff i posted .but the beauty of the U.S. is that you have huge communities of Braziliian,Columbian,Russian,Polish,Korean,Chinese,Italians etc,etc.If these communtities can produce one team to represent them in a league format,it would be a great thing.And let me note,hust because the team is from a certain community,doesn't mean people from other backgrounds can't join the team. This country is the greatest just based on the possiblities,it would be an absolute joy to see all the communties come together and every player learning from the different styles of play. I see a soccer powerhouse here without question,if it's done right,but an organised divisional league is what is needed. Relegation and promotion is the beauty of the sport,fans getting taken through heartbreak and Joy is what it's all about.Seeing your team climb from a lower division to a top division builds the foundation needed.
There's no doubt that the US is on its way as a world soccer power. But you have to understand that the MLS and the USL are trying to create a structure for the sport in a very competitive sports environment. There's absolutely zilch chance that soccer in the US will grow to resemble something that evolved over 100 years in other countries. You may have fond memories of great promotion/relegation battles in another country but you have to understand that no sport can succeed in a country without following the local traditions. And that includes a minor/major league structure, no relegation, playoffs, parity and the whole shebang. You'll find a lot of people at BS that want to argue things like that, but if you're expecting soccer in the US to ever resemble those wonderful memories of yours, you're in for a very, very long wait.
a point I've made on other threads is pro/rel didn't come about to promote growth, it came about because there were already hundreds of clubs in existence in several leagues and it was an attempt to let the cream rise to the top. If the US had as many clubs per head of population as England for example, it'd have 500 professional clubs of at least A-League size. Even if the US only had as many as England, it'd be very tough fitting them all into a conference set-up - and that is where pro/rel comes in. Like every other country in the world, the US would introduce it when it needs it, not the other way around. Calling for the introduction of it at the moment is putting the cart before the horse.
That's a very interesting explanation that I haven't heard before. It makes sense. I agree that pro/rel isn't going to happen in the near future. I think a similar argument can be made that MLS should drop the playoffs (except for MLS Cup). US sports leagues were established for many years before they started this nonsense (I mean financially wise decision) of so many teams making the playoffs. Look how long baseball had the World Series before they ever had any other playoffs. Having multiple playoff rounds before you have a strong presence in the media is another example of putting the cart before the horse.
No, it's not. Baseball is the exception, not the rule... all the other major leagues started with playoffs.
Yes there is a lot i don not yet understand about sports culture in the U.S.,and i have much to learn. I do think however it will take a combination of communities and the organisations to get the "pro/rel" thing started,as that form of structure is already in their culture.whether you or your parents are from Russia,Poland,brazil,Germany,England or wherever,if they can get this thing in action,then it will make a lt more sense to everyone else. Right now,the MLS or League Soccer in General is not making the growth it should after such a great world Cuo run.I mean if that performance doesn't help this sport grow in this country it's in trouble. That's why whether people like it or not,the powers that be will have to adopt a more "foreign" approach to the game or it will not happen........ever! So ,in effect many of you are right,you need the teams first then make the League.which means that The Organisations will have to make a push towards pulling together the best players from all of the local tournament and part time clubs.
OK, fine... So there's no growth going on? A couple of years ago, when the two Florida teams were axed, things did look pretty bleak. But let's see... This year they opened a new, hugely successful stadium in LA. Dallas is opening a stadium in a year. Stadium deals are simmering in Chicago, New Jersey, and Colorado. There's new ownership buying in and a strong chance of expansion by at least 4 teams within a few years. Are we talking about the same sport and the same league? So just when it looks like things are starting to happen, you want us to change everything? nurspec, you really are out of touch with things.
At least 4 teams in the next "few" years. Who are the teams that you refer to? Correct me if i'm wrong,but doesn't the MLS have problems getting and keeping sponsors? I'm not saying that we should change everything,that is absurd.My original question was about the teams outside of the mls,being brought into one league but in separate divisions that's all.I think the word that i have been looking for is Structure. My question is,is a-league run by the same people as the MLS?. My main concern is that when the sport starts becoming mainstream,then there will be nothing but confusion and corruption,because the foundation will be weak. I wouldn't change anything that is happening now with the big city teams in the MLS,because obviously there isn't enough team to have a pro/rel league anyway.But if you bring in the A-league and make it Mls div 2 then there would be some sort of structure. To be quite honest i don't know if A-league is that inferior to MLS.The few inter league games i have seen,they sem to be holding their own.So i'm thinking that there is some sort of set pecking order a player has to go through to make it into the MLS,which is another issue i believe.
There is one specific advantage to not having a pro/rel system in North American; league ownership diversity. Soccer is rather weak financially across North America. I don't think that any of us would unvest our life savings into MLS or A-League/USL stock if such a thing existed. By keeping leagues seperate we are helping to ensure the long-term survival of professional soccer in North America. Not long ago it looked as if MLS was on some pretty soft ground. What if the league went under then? What if it goes under down to road? At least with the present system there will be some form of professional soccer thanks to the USL. If the two leagues were merged then we'd be in for some dark days in terms of the professional game. It would take a long time to build another league from scratch compared to putting money into the infrastructure that the A-League has established.