Read some of these posts and realized that you ARE the biggest Red Devils. Found the link to a PDF file, how managers voted, in the Arsenal messageboard, Henry's bad day. I'm writing it here but don't know if i"m doing this right: results_by_coaches_m.pdf
http://images.fifa.com/events/playergala/2003/results/results_by_coaches_m.pdf Interesting... the Bruce voted Henry, Nedved, and RVN in that order. Sven put Roberto Carlos first, then RVN and Michael Ballack. I'm surprised to see Becks come up first so often, though mostly in small, Pacific nations.
How in the world does David Beckham get ANY votes for one of the top 3 players in the world. Heck, at the end of Man U's season he didn't even start. I don't understand what coaches from countries like Azerbaijan and the Solomon Islands are thinking. They must be going off publicity alone.
Have you seen Beckham play this year for Real Madrid? Change of scenery and move to central midfield have done wonders for him.
Beckham has indeed been a success at Real, but probably not enough of an improvement to be considered one of the top three players. It's player of the year, not player of the half-season. I can't understand it either, but I guess marketing counts for a lot with some people.
Your explanation could be the same argument as to why Zidane got voted WPY, couldn't it? Real did the same thing Man Utd did - won their domestic league. Zidane was hurt quite often last season for Real. Real made it to the finals of the UEFA CL, true. And Beckham wasn't starting with Man Utd last year for several games, that is true. And he isn't with them anymore. Clash between coach and player obviously. But I see your point. My point is that several people are arguing that Zidane got this only because it is a popularity contest; not a true vote of who the best player is over the past year. Those people are usually the ones who think Henry deserved it but still.
Beckham looked average, all of last season for Man U, with the exception of a couple free kicks. True he has played well for Real Madrid the last 4 months and had he played like that all year then maybe the top 3, but if you look at the entire year he is no where near the top ten best players in the world. In all of 2003 he has scored 9 goals. Compare that with Ruud's 33 or Ronaldo's 37. There is no doubt that Beckham is a good player, but there are many other players that deserve a vote instead of him. The WPOTY shouldn't be a popularity contest.
Yes, I agree with all of that. I think it would better f they would choose a winner during the summer months, so they could base it on a player's performance over one season. And I have to admit that I was a little surprised that Zidane won - not that he's not arguably the best in the world, but I'm not sure what it was in 2003 that won him the award. But much of what sets him apart from other players doesn't show up on the stat sheet. When you are forced to choose who is the best amongst players like Zidane, Ronaldo, and Henry, it is a little unfair. It's like deciding which supermodel you'd like to sleep with. Hard to make a bad decision.
I remembering reading a column somewhere that bascially pointed out that this whole voting system is quite flawed. Seriously, out of all of these coaches, how many have actually seen any of the players selected play in real life. B. Arena has probably never seen T. Henry score a goal. He proabably sees the highlights or watches one or two matches on a Saturday morning like the rest of us. Same goes for the coaches from the much smaller countries. The coaches follow the hype and press just as much as anybody else does. It's also pretty obvious by some of the votes which teams they watch the most. Panama obviously loves Real Madrid. Morocco's coach probably just watches mostly Spanish football. Geographically, that makes sense. As far as Beckham, obviously his pure popularity has to be a huge factor to the frequency of votes he got but you cannot just judge the player on his performances at the club level. He has captained England at a young age and has had a successful Euro qualification campaign. He made significant contributions for England on the pitch and I think his leadership role should be a factor. While I don't know if he is top 3 yet, if England and Real Madrid have successful years in 2004, you'll probably see his name up there a heck of a lot more and probably deservedly so.
If you are going to base the award on number of goals scored you should just say it's for the best player. Beckham definitely deserved all of the votes he received. I think there probably at least 10-20 players in the world that are equal to the 3 finalists. Because of the nature of the football & the number of top teams it is impossible to name a top player. Off the top of my head. STRIKERS Ruud Raul Shevchenko Vierra Mutu MIDFIELDERS Beckham Totti Vierri Pires Giggs Keane Nedved Figo DEFENDERS Nesta Cannavaro Roberto Carlos Rio KEEPERS Kahn Friedal (no joke) Buffon
I would not base WPOTY just on goals, but was showing that for a comparison of how far away Beckham was from the top goal scorers. I am a Beckham fan and think he is a great player (although after reading his book he turned into a sissy after marrying Posh.) However, I believe he had by far his worst year for Man U and he was not one of the best 3 players on their team, nor is he one of the top 3 players on Real Madrid's All-Star team. I don't think he deserved a vote in the top 10 players last year. You are correct though, it is difficult to compare different positions, but it just seems the whole system is flawed.
"Beckham definitely deserved all of the votes he received." no he didnt, not for being ONE OF the best in his league for 4 months as for your list of players, etc.: mutu has scored 5/6 goals for chelsea, hardly wpoy material. viera isnt a striker, hes a middy, and vieri isnt a middy hes a striker, and neither of them deserve it either, seeing as vieris been benched by inter somewhat and viera as a d-mid just wont win it, plus he hasnt really been a world beater, though not a slouch by any means either. raul has been subpar THIS season though he was good last year. pires was poor last season, keane cant even play 2 games a week anymore and he wasnt 100% last season. giggs was erratic last season and isnt consistent enough to win it. how you came up with rio i have no idea. he was poor last year, not to mention the fact that sepp hates him so he wouldnt win it even if he somehow did manage to get votes. kahn? lol. by all accounts hes been mediocre at best since japorea. and while i love friedel he hasnt been up to par this season either. not to be a pest but i'd say most of these picks were out of bias toward man u, reputation, or hype (i.e. beckham). (p.s.- im a man u fan too but anyone aside from rvn and to a minor extent scholes doesnt even merit mention in wpoy award for the last year.) and oh yea, you left off henry. i hate the Arse but hes got to be on the list. same thing for ronaldo. out of the players listed i'd say that the most worthy ones would be: RVN Zidane (though he shouldnt have won) nedved HENRY (you left out) RONALDO (you left out) personally it would be hard for me to choose but my top 3 would be nedved ruud and henry. i think zidane gets too many reputation votes, and though he may well be the best player in the world, this is just judging the last year, and in the last year, others were better. ronaldo has been good for madrid but he also gets reputation votes and with the service he gets i would expect him to score in bunches. im not saying hes been subpar, i just think others have had more spectacular seasons. henry should get many votes b/c he not only scores as many as a number 9 he also has as many assists as a number 10, though last year he was poor in europe, so i dont think he wins. rvn led europe in goals, won the golden boot in the epl and had a fantastic season, though he did score plety from the spot, and he doesnt get as many assists as others, but for me he is definitely up there. i guess nedved maybe wins for me b/c he was really the life of juve last season, as seen when the missed him in the cl final. that just shows what kind of impact he has, seeing as how scrappy they were without him. but overall you cant go wrong with either one of nedved, rvn, or henry. thats my view anyway. (p.s.s.- why did roberto carlos get so many votes??? anybody??)
You sit there passing judgement and nitpicking about having Vieri and Viera in the wrong categories then you unveil this gem. Thanks for showing that you aren't nearly as enlightened as you think you are. And who do I think should have won it? I'd go with Henry, Ruud, Zidane. You could say Ruud but all the crap about him and Holland leaves a sour taste (sweetened by the hat trick vs. Scotland) whereas Henry's year with France was quality throughout. Can't really go wrong either way. Neved is a close third.
for one, i dont consider myself "enlightned", i wasnt intending to come off as arrogant or allknowing, i just kind of said it that way lol, my apologies. but honestly after looking through the list of the coaches votes i really dont see why carlos gets so much regonition in wpoy. obviously he's a great player and probably the best at his position (though i still maintain that hes just as much a winger as a left back) and he does great things adding to the attack for madrid off the wings, but i just dont think hes nearly as influential as others to be considered wpoy. im not taking anything away from him but if you look within his own team alone wouldnt you have to say that at least ronaldo and more than likely zidane are more influential and have had greater impacts in the last year. so if hes maybe the third best on his team, then how does he get all these #1 votes for wpoy? thats all im saying, by no means am i saying hes a bad player, i just dont think he is in the top 5 or so and i was a bit surprised to see his name come up so often in the voting. but if im missing something then please do "enlighten" me with a "gem" of your own again sry if a came off as a snob or what not. thanks
I'm sorry man, didn't mean to bite your head off. Guess it was just overreacting after finding so many other, way more pompous people, sit here and act like they know it all. After reading your stuff again I realize that you weren't trying to be like that. As for Roberto Carlos, he is such a difficult player for some people to valuate because he isn't a big goal-scorer or set up man. But if you consider that with his skill and physical attributes he is capable of commanding an entire portion of the field, we're talking cover the ground that it normally takes two players to handle, that offers such a luxury to the teams he plays for (Brazil, Madrid). When he can do the job of a left winger and left back, that creates so many tactical options for a team that no other player in the world can boast. There are plenty of attacking players who can offer the impact of multiple players, Carlos is a one of a kind. Nevermind his free kick ability. As for why he got votes in 2003. If anything, he should have been more seriously considered for the award in 2002 when he was on Real Madrid's Champions League winner and Brazil's World Cup winner. Once again though, he was overshadowed by the goal scorers and assist men. I think coaches are more equipped to appreciate just what Roberto Carlos can do and what his ability means to the teams he plays for.