How is Mathis' goal against South Korea one of the biggest goals of US Soccer history?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by arkjayback, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can someone please explain that to me.

    Around his retirement, I heard that comment several times and someone (maybe Bruce Arena) even said it was THE biggest goal in US Soccer history. By what frickin' standard?

    I wasn't hangin' around in Mathis' best days, but I do understand that he's one of the the most talented American soccer players ever. That's no reason to overstate the significance of that goal. I've made enough US Soccer videos to have gained a pretty good understanding of its history.

    It was not a game-winner. It was not against an international soccer power. It was not a goal that attracted millions of new fans. It was not a watershed moment. It was not significant financially. It was not one of the most difficult goals in US Soccer history. It was early in the game to go ahead in the second group stage match in which the team eventually drew. Hell, Friedel's penalty kick save in that match was probably more important to get the point that sent the US through.

    I respect Mathis' contribution to US Soccer, but even his free kick goal against Honduras was bigger, also Caligiuri's goal against T&T, Stewart vs. Colombia, Preki vs. Brazil, McBride vs. Portugal, Altidore vs. Spain, and of course Donovan vs. Algeria. I just cannot understand how someone could claim Mathis' goal was bigger than all of them.
     
  2. UnionFreak1

    UnionFreak1 Member+

    Oct 14, 2009
    Tucson, Baja AZ
    Club:
    FC Tucson
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    because it was against the host country, a country that was paying off the reffs?
     
  3. Brandinho

    Brandinho Member

    None
    United States
    Feb 22, 2007
    New Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Allegedly:cool:
     
  4. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    We got lucky since they thought they could beat us, so our refs were not paid as much as Italy or Spain. And the Germans won even with all the crappy calls. As much as some people believe that it was called both ways, there are plenty of no calls which most people dont remember.
     
  5. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    - It put the U.S. ahead in a World Cup game during the team's definitive World Cup run thus far

    - It was a beautiful, technical strike

    I wouldn't say it's the biggest, but I would say it's one of the best.
     
  6. KingHenrik

    KingHenrik New Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a top 10 for sure. He doesn't score that goal and the U.S. has no chance of going through (unless they actually show up against Poland). I'm not trying to knock you but just because you made some youtube videos doesn't really equate to understanding significance of certain events in the moment.

    Don't forget, S. Korea was a semi-finalist that year... even if they did pay off refs.
     
    2 people repped this.
  7. eainterplay

    eainterplay Member

    May 11, 2008
    Alabama
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, you can't prove that. ;) On a more serious note, I've always been afraid of match fixing in club soccer, more than on the international level. Money disparity is higher and fewer viewers makes it easier to pay off refs, but honestly I think S. Korea got some (how to say it) interesting calls in 02.
     
  8. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dos a cero would never be invented if Mathis doesn't score.

    Plus it was as hostile and intimidating a venue as can be imagined in a WC venue.
     
  9. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haha, nice little underhanded shot there. I understand the significance of Caligiuri's, Wynalda's, Stewart's, O'Brien's, Donovan's, McBride's, etc. goals in the World Cup. It was a well taken goal against a host country. Like I said, Friedel's save is more important in that match. How can a goal be one of the biggest in US Soccer history when its not even the biggest moment in that match?
     
  10. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    saying "one of" is a whole lot different than saying "the greatest"

    its not like their are a ton of US world cup goals to chose from as is. That goal, as many have said, proved to be VERY valuable in us moving on in the best US world cup ever.

    Given the atmosphere, the venue, etc. it was huge. Like Davies scoring @ Mexico type thing... expect on THE stage
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The player of that match was Brad Friedel...............

    It was an important goal, no doubt..........but every American goal at every World Cup is important. About the least important one of recent memory was Donovan's against Poland as we were getting blown out. But that's about it.

    Name a goal in the 2010WC for the Americans that wasn't "big" and important?

    Was it more or less important than Wynalda's against Switzerland in 1994? About the same. We don't advance without either.

    I bet if I made a list, it would be in the 10-15 area. But I'm not going to bother........
     
  12. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. When I think "Biggest goals in US Soccer history" I'm thinking Gaetjens, Stewart, Donovan, Wynalda, McBride, Bradley, Donovan again, all in the World Cup. If you look outside the WC, then the list gets a little longer.
     
  13. Beazley17

    Beazley17 Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    South Florida
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As Clint stated above, almost every goal you score in a world cup, the US or not is pretty damn big. On top of that we took the lead with that goal, and we ended up taking a crucial point from that match. And if you look at the quality of the goal, its pretty tremendous. The technical ability of Mathis and O'Brien really showed. The ball that O'Brien played was class, and Clint's touch and one time strike was superb.
     
  14. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Definitely not the most important, but it's a contender for the best goal we've ever scored in a World Cup (combination of JOB's vision and accuracy and Mathis's technique and composure). For that reason I'd put it up there.
     
  15. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    We came out of that Portugal game with our own heads still spinning and a huge challenge facing us: an inspired host country.

    Then we trot out a guy who didn't even sub in against Portugal. A guy with an announcement to make.

    When Clint scored that goal - so clinically, so early - we knew we were for real and had a good chance to advance. That announcement? "Let The Good Times Roll."

    Plus, Clint scored it with his third leg and celebrated by playing dueling banjos with Grandpa Jones at the corner flag.

    Top that, Lucky Caligiuri.
     
  16. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

    Aug 15, 2006
    Baton Rouge, Louisia

    Beautiful pass, excellently taken goal, tie against a semi-finalist who was also the host country, best run the US has ever had at a WC in modern times...it all adds up to being on the short list for best ever. Some of the other ones you listed might have had greater significance in certain respects, but they came no where near the skill level of the JOB/Mathis connection. When you add up all the pieces is why it's up there.
     
  17. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Exactly what goals outside of a World Cup are bigger than a goal in a World Cup? Caligiuri, maybe. After that...?
     
  18. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally I would say Altidore versus Spain and Donovan against Brazil in the Confederations Cup, "The Building is Shaking", and, imo, Mathis' own free kick against Honduras.
     
  19. Roehl Sybing

    Roehl Sybing Guest

    Donovan because of the great run, perhaps, but I can't agree with the last two being bigger than any World Cup goal, let alone Mathis' against Korea. Altidore's goal being important was simply a matter of the situation (GWG against Spain, sends US to the final), otherwise it's just good positioning taking advantage of bad defense.

    The significance of Mathis' goal was quality play AND the implications it held; everyone focuses on Portgual-Korea, but without that draw against Korea, the US doesn't qualify for the second round. Heck, if it wasn't for bad set piece defense late in the game, Mathis would have been a bigger hero.
     
  20. judodono

    judodono Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Bay Area, Ca.
    Club:
    --other--
    cute. US Soccer fan post 2002.
     
  21. Mike03

    Mike03 Member

    Jun 7, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Well, it was badass. That's why! Did you see it live? I remember it clearly - one of those goals that makes you jump up.
     
  22. KingHenrik

    KingHenrik New Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that, but that still doesn't stack up. We still needed a goal in that game to stay alive. Nobody else was really getting it done up front that day. We all know what a stinker was put up vs Poland. I don't think Clint's is the biggest in history, but definitely in the top 10.

    '02 was by far the best ever WC performance in US history and there's no disputing that. Without Clint's goal (as said by others) we don't get the Mexico game or the solid Germany performance and robbing.
     
  23. iyutepo

    iyutepo Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    Colorado
    Who is saying this? If you feel like trying to source it, that would be nice of you, because I'm not hearing that at all (other than in this thread). I mean, people say extra nice things to people at their retirement -- happens all the time... So some of that type of talk, if it occurred at his retirement, should be taken with a grain of salt. It wouldn't surprise me if Arena said this at JOB's retirement AND at BMB's retirement. Statements like that are routinely said at retirements.

    Hell, I could see Arena saying this at Jeff Agoos' retirement (tongue-in-cheek of course).

    This particular goal was a great goal. I don't think anyone is seriously calling it the greatest or the biggest.
     
  24. LiverAndPineapple

    May 7, 2008
    You don't see a mohawked Southerner trap and two touch a goal in a World Cup every day.
     
  25. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That shot secured the point that allowed us to advance. At the time, while we recognized it was a big goal, we thought there was still work to do. In retrospect, its importance becomes clear.

    Without that goal, South Korea and Portugal advance. USA "2-0" over Mexico never happens. We never establish ourselves as the region's dominant team. Portugal was just a fluke. A blip. Millions (yes, millions) of people do not wake up to watch the team at odd hours of the night to see them play in Asia.

    The magical run of 2002 came crashing to an end before it could ever happen. If you did not experience the magic of 2002 while it was happening, perhaps you can never understand what that run did for soccer in this country.
     

Share This Page