How is Josh Wolff doing?

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by juventino3, May 21, 2004.

  1. juventino3

    juventino3 Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    I've seen very little of KC this year. How is Wolff's game progressing? Has he regained any of his explosiveness? He has looked quite good for the nats lately, but I've been curious as to why he has only 1 goal in MLS so far this season.
     
  2. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Josh Wolff - MLS
    1998 - 651/8 = 1 goal every 81 minutes
    1999 - 1775/10 = 1 goal every 178 minutes
    2000 - 1917/7 = 1 goal every 274 minutes
    2001 - 244/2 = 1 goal every 122 minutes
    2002 - 1223/5 = 1 goal every 245 minutes
    2003 - 872/2 = 1 goal every 436 minutes
    2004 - 539/1 = 1 goal every 539 minutes
    Total - 7221/35 = 1 goal every 206 minutes

    In his Wizards career that's 3 goals in the equivalent of 15 games.

    Josh Wolff - USSF
    1999 - 44/0
    2000 - 110/1
    2001 - 398/2
    2002 - 497/3
    2004 - 158/0
    Total - 1107/6 - 1 goal every 188 minutes

    I don't know about you, but that's a pretty pathetic strike rate for a maximum salary guy who spends half of his time injured or called up to the national team. And speaking of injuries, from 1999-2002 he only played 20 minutes of playoff soccer. Speaking of which, it gets worse:

    Josh Wolff - MLS Playoffs
    1998 - 262/0
    2000 - 20/0
    2003 - 46/0
    Total - 328/0 - 1 goal every infinity
     
  3. hartley

    hartley Member

    We've played six games and he has not missed a game. From that standpoint, this is a good sign. He needs to stay healthy right now considering we are without Preki and Simutenkov.

    He also needs to stay healthy if he is going to get any time with the Nats.

    He needs to pick up his performance. He has shown some flashes, but he has also had to play some holding striker which is not his strength. When we start Josh and Davy up top, we really don't have a target man to hold the ball while the other striker runs.

    Of course, if Preki were on the field, he might have the chance to make some more damaging runs like the one in which he scored his only goal -- that against Colorado from a Gutierrez feed on a broken play and playing a man down.

    Josh has also shown some good passing abilities that I didn't know he had. That includes his assist to DMB against Poland. Very nice.

    But there have also been many times he has appeared lazy. He has fallen or been tripped or whatever and sits on the field watching the ball when he should bounce up and get after it. There have been times when he could have won the ball in the 18 and didn't because he sat watching.

    Now, in his defense, maybe he isn't running as much as he would because the coaches have instructed him not to. Maybe he is taking moments as they come. Maybe he really isn't at full strength compared to his fitness of say a couple of years ago or even during the last World Cup. Maybe he is trying to do some things differently to not get hurt again.

    In the final analysis, he needs to show more. He needs to either make more runs and show some hustle. Or he needs to make things happen more by handling the ball and making that pass.

    I look for him to improve over the entire season and get better chances once Preki returns.
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    For a league maximum goal scorer, we've got 3 goals in one season, three playoff games, and 1/5th of another season.

    I call that crap. Peter Wilt used Curt Johnson. This trade was far, far, far worse than the Henderson for Lassiter trade. Hendo had had a career year that he wasn't likely to repeat and Roy was the league's all-time leading goalscorer coming off a substandard year. It was a chance that didn't pan out. The Josh Wolff trade - on the other hand - is beginning to look like one of the all-time great screw-jobs in league history.
     
  5. hartley

    hartley Member

    Andy,

    Why not see what he does over an entire year? Goodness, yes, he's been hurt. And way too much.

    But I'm still hoping for better. And thus far I would agree that this trade has been one of the worst we have made.

    Since he hasn't even played 30 games in blue, I would hold off juding him or the trade though. He's still young and could have a long career in MLS.

    Does anyone know when his current contract runs out? He may have to take a cut if he doesn't get better.

    I believe he will.
     
  6. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    We have seen what he does over an entire year. He got hurt 5(!) times last season.

    His salary isn't pro-rated based on how much he's healthy. And it's not like he's never been hurt before. He played a grand total of 20 minutes of playoff action combined in 1999, 2000, 2001, and 2002 for the Chicago Fire.

    The injuries can't be seperated out.

    And he could've scored two goals in his second half appearance against San Jose in the playoffs, and we could've beaten Chicago in MLS Cup 2003. But none of that happened. If and when any of what you state happens, I'll change my opinion. Scott Vermillion could turn out to be the best man marker in MLS history if only we'd get him to come out of retirement. He's only two months older than Josh, afterall.

    I hope you are right. But his 6+ season history with the Wizards and his 5+ years with the national team don't exactly paint a picture of hope. His professional (non-US Open Cup - couldn't find the records) career is 41 goals in 8,656 minutes, or one goal every 211 minutes. But in the last two+ (2002-2004) seasons its 11 goals in 3289 minutes, or 1 every 290 minutes. He's getting worse, and playing less. As players age, they rarely - Preki aside - get healthier and more productive.
     
  7. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to have to go with Andy on this one.

    Josh simply is not earning the salary he's receiving. Our expectations might be high but then so is his salary. At least in terms of MLS salaries.

    To me it's analogous to Mike Sweeney with the Royals. Sweeney is a one, maybe two, tool player that is making $11 million per year. Take that $11 million and get three players that can do what Mike Sweeney does or spend the $11 million to keep Carlos Beltran.

    The only problem the Wizards have is on who could they possibly unload Josh? How much longer are we committed to him?
     
  8. BenC1357

    BenC1357 Member

    Feb 23, 2001
    KC
    I defended this trade last year. But now I'm on Andy's side almost 100%. Apparently he's healthy now, but nothing has changed. Like Andy said, a striker in this league has to have a higher scoring rate than Wolff. Throw in the salary we're paying him and it becomes pretty clear that we didn't get what we paid for.
    Think of it this way. For one Josh Wolff you could pay for 10 Davy Arnauds. I know, Davy ain't the best but that just shows you what you can get on the cheap in MLS.
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I want Josh Wolff to be successful in Kansas City.

    But looking at what he has done for us, I don't see it. Is the potential there? Yes. But we're as likely to get 10 goals out of Matt Taylor or Davy Arnaud as we are out of Josh Wolff.

    Frankly, I just hope one of our forwards makes it to 10 goals.
     
  10. hartley

    hartley Member

    I agree with everyone who says Wolff is not what he is being paid.

    But what I want to see is 30 games on the field -- and maybe even 30 on the field with Preki.

    As Andy said, he was hurt 5 times last year. So he barely saw the field.

    IF he can stay healthy enough to be on the field for most of the season and he still doesn't show us anything then I will be right there with anyone who says let him go.

    But for the most part, I am going to stay positive. I hope he scores tomorrow night -- at least once.

    Go Wizards!
     
  11. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    But is what you *want* realistic? His "healthiest" year, 2000, totalled only 2107 minutes played (MLS+USMNT) - and none in the ever playoffs. You don't think Chicago coulda used him against us in MLS Cup 2000? 2,107 minutes is less than 24 complete games.

    That's his healthiest year. And you want to see 30? That's completely unrealistic. He's already up to 7 1/2 or so, and the Wizards and USMNT have gotten exactly one goal out of him. Nearly 1/4 of his healthiest year, and he's only got one goal.
     
  12. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Is it just me, or am I just filling in until Dave gets online? :p
     
  13. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    What a Wizards striker that scores 10 goals? No way there is such a thing.
     
  14. Spoon

    Spoon Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Overland Park Ks
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last Wizards player (any poss) to score 10 goals was in 2000 by Molnar. Hell there have only been 3 Wiz strikers all time to hit 10 or more a year. Mo, Digi, Molnar.
     
  15. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Which goes a long way to explain the Wizards place on this list (g/gp):

    1. Chicago 324/180
    2. DC United 426/244
    2. Los Angeles 426/244
    4. Tampa Bay 246/155
    5. Miami 199/122
    6. Columbus 395/243
    7. Dallas 383/244
    8. San Jose 373/244
    9. Kansas City 361/245
    10. New England 360/245
    11. MetroStars 357/244
    12. Colorado 356/244
     
  16. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Time to update the numbers Andy.
     
  17. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    Just saw MLS Wrap on FSW. Harkes is still pretty critical of Josh noting the inconsistency that was mentioned earlier. A pretty good assessment I thought. He also had a nice rip on Suarez's headgear for the Galaxy. That guy sucked tonight and earlier this week. San Jose is looking really scary in the attack, and Wolff better watch his USMNT job because Brian Ching might come and take it if he keeps scoring. 2 tonight and could've had 3. Playing with Landon probably doesn't hurt his chances either. Granted, they're different players. Wolff is a much better passer and Ching's in the McBride mold. Just thinking Wolff needs to keep producing if he wants to be secure coming up.
     
  18. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    No, but tonight Donovan didn't figure into any of the scoring.

    One thing you can say is that every Ching goal is something of quality. They are mostly the types of goals commonly missed by good players.
     
  19. hartley

    hartley Member

    Boy, Wolff really stunk against Dallas, huh? Yeah he had a goal and an assist. So what.

    He missed that header on a cross from Burciaga. Never mind that Jr.B isn't known for providing service. Josh got his head on it and he should have put it away. And I'm sure there are several other chances that we can point out that he just didn't finish.

    I hope he continues to stink like he did last night.

    Oh, by the way, since it has been pointed out that it is difficult for any player on a Bob Gansler coached team to score 10 goals or more in a season, might it not be the system the Josh is playing WITHIN that is keeping his point total down?
     
  20. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Uh, no.

    ------
    Yeah, sounded like Harkes was reading this thread. :p

    I could updated the numbers, but they're still ********e. I do hope he keeps scoring.

    ------
    Speaking of the missed header. Jose was playing attacking mid, and doing a pretty fair job of it. When we bring on Burciaga to lead the attack, you know things aren't looking good for Diego Walsh.
     
  21. In Bob We Trust

    In Bob We Trust New Member

    Jan 5, 2003
    this is an interesting debate...what did you guys give up to acquire Wolff again?
     
  22. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If I recall we gave up the #3 pick in the 2003 SuperDraft and about $230,000 in cap space.
     
  23. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    These are the players chosen before the Wizards first pick in the 2003 SuperDraft (we also traded (#23 I think) to San Jose for Jimmy Conrad on draft day.

    I think we coulda made a nice #3 pick from the players taken from #3-32 and spent the salary cap savings on someone who'd have helped us out a lot more than Josh Wolff has.


    1. D.C. United Alecko Eskandarian F 5-8 160 07-09-82 Montvale, NJ Virginia / P-40
    2. MetroStars Ricardo Clark M 5-10 140 02-10-83 Jonesboro, GA Furman/ P-40
    3. Chicago Nate Jaqua F 6-3 180 10-28-81 Eugene, OR Portland/ P-40
    4. MetroStars Mike Magee F 5-9 150 09-02-84 Long Grove, IL Project-40/ US U-20s
    5. D.C. United David Stokes D 6-3 195 05-28-82 Dumfries, VA North Carolina / P-40
    6. San Jose Todd Dunivant D 6-0 174 12-26-80 Wheat Ridge, CO Stanford
    7. Columbus Diego Walsh M 6-0 180 12-08-79 Miami, FL Southern Methodist
    8. Los Angeles Guillermo Gonzalez M 5-11 145 01-04-86 Paramount, CA Project-40 / US U-17s
    9. New England Pat Noonan F 6-0 170 08-02-80 Ballwin, MO Indiana
    10. Dallas Shavar Thomas D 6-1 195 01-29-81 Jamaica Connecticut

    Round 2 - 2003 MLS SuperDraft
    11. D.C. United Brian Carroll M 5-10 150 07-20-81 Springfield, VA Wake Forest / P-40
    12. MetroStars Eddie Gaven M 6-0 145 10-25-86 Hamilton, NJ Project-40/ US U-17s
    13. San Jose Arturo Alvarez F 5-9 145 06-28-85 Houston, TX Project-40/ US U-18s
    14. D.C. United Doug Warren GK 6-0 165 03-18-81 Palatine, IL Clemson
    15. Dallas Jason Thompson F 6-1 185 11-22-81 Garland, TX E. Illinois / P-40
    16. Los Angeles Scot Thompson D 6-0 180 02-11-81 RS Margarita CA UCLA
    17. MetroStars Tim Regan D/M 6-1 170 06-27-81 Orland Hills IL Bradley Univ.
    18. Chicago Damani Ralph F 6-0 170 11-06-80 Jamaica Connecticut
    19. Los Angeles Arturo Torres F 6-1 165 12-11-80 Wilmington, CA Loyola Marymount
    20. Los Angeles Ricky Lewis D 6-0 170 05-29-82 Spring, TX Clemson / P-40

    Round 3 - 2003 MLS SuperDraft
    21. Dallas David Comfort GK 6-5 200 07-27-81 Richmond, VA Virginia
    22. New England Dimelon Westfield F 5-9 165 10-05-79 Trinidad Clemson
    23. San Jose Roger Levesque F 6-2 174 01-22-81 Portland, ME Stanford
    24. Chicago Logan Pause D 5-10 155 08-22-81 Hillsborough NC North Carolina / P-40
    25. Chicago Ryan Mack M 5-10 160 11-13-79 Beverly Hlls MI Indiana
    26. Chicago Phil Swenda F 5-8 165 04-22-81 Downington, PA Seton Hall
    27. Colorado Jason Cole D/M 5-10 180 09-26-80 Raytown, MO St. Louis University
    28. Colorado Alex Blake F 6-1 176 10-14-80 Jamaica Williams College
    29. New England Kyle Singer GK 5-11 175 08-06-80 Plymouth, MN Boston College
    30. MetroStars Tim Glowienka D 5-9 165 08-10-80 Oak Ridge, TN South Carolina

    Round 4 - 2003 MLS SuperDraft
    31. D.C. United Hayden Woodworth M 5-9 155 12-12-80 Boothwyn, PA Messiah College
    32. MetroStars Kenny Arena M 6-1 175 02-06-81 Fairfax, VA Virginia
     
  24. kopiteinkc

    kopiteinkc Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    Shawnee
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That makes me weep :(
     
  25. hartley

    hartley Member

    Andy,

    I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree at this point.

    I prefer to see the glass as half full.

    This was not the first time Burciaga has played midfield -- though it was the first time in an official MLS match. I believe they have also tried him on the left wing. As with Garcia, I think Gansler wants to get his outside defenders and midfielders used to going up field and contributing in the attack -- especially with service.

    I thought he also played well considering his true position is defender. I did notice that he seemed to run like a defender. But that may only be because of his knee operations. Actually, I thought he looked better than Gomez for while [though Gomez was doing a good job of possessing the ball at times and winning it back].

    Good cross to Wolff by Jose. Seems Josh was coming in too fast -- got too far in on it and couldn't get it down. Sometimes speed doesn't help. At least Josh was there. Nobody else got down field fast enough to support Jose.
     

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