How is everyone doing?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by voiceoflg, May 22, 2020.

  1. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    I saw a posting on a robotics board that I frequent that said in essence, "We don't want our robotics team to be a COVID anecdote on the local news."

    That sentiment will be driving many organizations to "an abundance of caution" when deciding when to resume and under what conditions. The feeling is, what if we didn't do X, and more people got sick?

    I'm in one of the hard-hit areas of the country (metro Detroit) and although things are improving, we still don't see things going to "normal" for a long time yet. We don't want our church to be the one that is on the news because we reopened too early and people got sick and died. The same will apply to schools, sports teams, etc.

    The trick is to balance the economic necessities with the health necessities. Guess too far wrong in either direction, and you've done irreparable harm.

    I personally don't know what the answer is. Can we start associating with people again? Under what conditions? I've been working from home, and despite missing the interaction with colleagues, I'd rather continue doing that than go to work with all the restrictions that will be in place. We would need to wear masks, probably all day. They can't even figure out how the person who has the cubicle next to the window gets to their seat while still trying to stay socially distant from the rest of the people in that cubicle row. Nor how to use rest rooms, break rooms, elevators - the list goes on and on. And I work for an insurance company owned by a hospital.
     
    dadman and voiceoflg repped this.
  2. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    On a local club's Facebook group, one parent stated she would not let her child play soccer "until there is a vaccine." I asked her that very question. "There is still no vaccine for SARS and it has been around since 2003. Are you suggesting we shut down all youth sports for 17 or more years?"

    Frankly, I don't know the answer. I don't know enough to definitively say yes or no to that question. But the consequences on both sides of the discussion sure needs to be well thought out.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  3. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Every virus it seems is a little different. How contagious, how deadly, and the big issue that makes this one such a problem - how long are you contagious before you are symptomatic. Everyone will decide for themselves how much risk they think there is. My opinion should be clear from my GO availability page.

    Screen Shot 2020-05-26 at 1.10.33 PM.png
     
    El Rayo Californiano repped this.
  4. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Here's a pretty dramatic representation of the distribution of the problem.

    https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/COVIDMapb.png

    I think my response to those who are nervous about opening up normal life is "If you don't want to go to work, go to school school, go out to eat, watch sports, etc., fine. That's your choice. But don't tell the rest of us that we can't."
     
    jdmahoney, RefIADad and IASocFan repped this.
  5. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seems you are in the minority:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/08/us/politics/coronavirus-reopening-polls.html
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reopening-country-greater-risk-americans-poll/story?id=70555060
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...-restrictions-isnt-worth-the-risks-2020-05-08
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...orried-country-reopen-too-quickly/5180069002/
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-support-extending-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/pew-research-poll-coronavirus-restrictions-states/index.html
    (and I made sure to include both sides of the politcal spectrum)
     
    dadman and IASocFan repped this.
  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    While there has undoubtedly been increased anxiety, I'm having a hard time believing that there have been over 100,000 excess deaths nationally from those causes. (In areas with little infection, it could be true--but part of that balance is also the fact that people are still alive because of the precautions that have narrowed the spread. (Whether some precautions are excessive is another question--it's absolutely fair to debate cost/benefit of various actions. But it's also hard as the data is still far from adequately detailed, leading to questions of where to err. And reasonable minds can differ on that.)
    I agree that "vaccine or nothing" is an overreaction. Assuming that antibodies hang around, over time, we will get to a reasonable level of herd immunity with or without a virus--it won't stop the spread, but will stop it from being so explosive.
    There are no perfect answers, and there aren't going to be. This is a virus that was unknown until what, 8 months ago? But we are learning. Recently announced that it is less contagious from surfaces than previously feared. That helps. We have enahnced medical supplies (medical masks and ventilators) that makes it less likely medical facilities will be overrun if there is a new surge. That helps. We know some of the factors that make it most risky--close contact, extended time, enclosed places. Those help in planning. We know that distance matters and that masks help stop the spread. (Masks are, however, a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" challenge: the benefit of the masks is more towards stopping spread from a wearer than in protecting the wearer; so i get the discofort/annoyance of wearing a mask in public, but the benefit is mostly to others.) If we knew in January what we know now, more lives could have been saved with less dislocation of society.

    All together I think several things are true. I think outdoor sports will start, but will try to limit things that create extended close contact. Team huddles may not be the best idea, especially for long periods. Players will be encouraged/mandated to have separation when sitting on the touch line. Fans will be encouraged to have separation (and if fewer parents are a the games, I'm not sure that is bad for the kids . . . ). Probably not do handshakes. Proably encourage hand sanitizer. We'll be (I hope) more reluctant to encourage people to play sick if they can. I also think it is inescapably true that players will, from time to time, get one another sick. And that there will be youth who die from picking it up in a game or a practice. But that has also happened with other diseases and in-game injuries.

    In places like Oregon with few cases, this is all going to be easier/sooner (unless they get a surge). In places like LA County, which is still pretty "hot," it will probably take longer.
     
    dadman and voiceoflg repped this.
  7. SCV-Ref

    SCV-Ref Member

    Spurs
    Australia
    Feb 22, 2018
  8. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Law5 said: ↑
    Yes, I know that people have died from this stuff. Not as many as have died from heart attacks related to anxiety over it, however, according to one health researcher at a major university in the area, never mind others with lockdown related causes of death, such as suicide. All of this has only increased my frustration.
    Socal lurker added:
    While there has undoubtedly been increased anxiety, I'm having a hard time believing that there have been over 100,000 excess deaths nationally from those causes. (In areas with little infection, it could be true--but part of that balance is also the fact that people are still alive because of the precautions that have narrowed the spread. (Whether some precautions are excessive is another question--it's absolutely fair to debate cost/benefit of various actions. But it's also hard as the data is still far from adequately detailed, leading to questions of where to err. And reasonable minds can differ on that.)

    and now I add:
    This is just what I was told by one of my people, whose daughter is a medical researcher at University of Washington. Covid-19 deaths in the United States have just reached 100,000. Heart attack deaths are running something like 650,000 per year. I have no idea how researchers link anxiety from a particular cause to a specific heart attack, except other than looking at the change in the number of heart attacks in a given period of time compared to now. I've read that in Oregon, death rates from all causes are up 30% this year, aside from Covid-19 specific deaths. Is Covid-19 indirectly related to the increased deaths? That's research above my pay grade.
     
  9. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I live in a county that has been hit extremely hard. Hundreds have died, thousands have been infected.

    just today, scanning the obits in the NYT, I came across the name of my cardiologist, who I had last been in to see in late January. I then contacted another doctor friend of mine and he had contacted the virus and was hospitalized for it shortly after I had last seen him.

    Daughter of my best friend just returned to her “easier” job as an oncology nurse after working as a covid nurse for the last 60 days.

    i think we will come to learn that in the fog of war, mistakes in execution and decisions were made that weren’t necessary everywhere, but devoid of guidance centrally, we as a country were adrift, and left to our own devices locally.
     
    jnielsen and dadman repped this.
  10. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    When they let the kids go play, I will be out there. And going to be social distancing my a$$ off. Any one comes at me during dead ball is gonna get shooed off, whistled at, or even carded if I have to.

    I know that I may run thru their "air" and that is a risk. But I intend to go hard(er) diagonals and not chase the ball as much. I won't be as close to play (and therefore won't be as good a ref). But I will be concentrating as hard as ever and looking forward to regaining at least some normalcy.

    For those who are worried about the risk, I understand that. But there are already so many risks in this world and this is one I will choose to take.
     
    IASocFan and Gary V repped this.
  11. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    You can stop by the snack tent....I made treats. :)

    upload_2020-5-27_17-56-37.jpeg
     
    meyers, dadman, ArgylleRef and 9 others repped this.
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    "And nobody's allowed in this circle except me. Got it? OK, let's play."
     
    SccrDon, dadman, RefIADad and 6 others repped this.
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    There is also a question of how many of the deaths are unidentified Covid deaths. How testing/diagnosis of deaths has varied radically. I strongly suspect (and most experts seem to agree) that the 100K deaths is a signifcant understatement of actual covid related deaths.

    With respect to heart attacks, it would be interesting to get good data. The NY Times reported a decline in heart attacks.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/...itals-emergency-care-heart-attack-stroke.html

    We're getting fairly far afield from soccer, let alone reffing. From a soccer/reffing perspective, the challenge is going to be figuriing out where appropriate lines can and should be drawn to be able to play again. I'm cautiously optimistic we will be there by fall, but I think it depends on what happens as restrictions continueto be loosened over the next few months. (And boy am I anxious to get back out there . . . last night I had a dream about my adult team's first game back . . . )
     
  14. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Last night I had a dream about meeting somebody new and doing the extended-leg toe-tap "handshake..." :barefoot:
     
    dadman and voiceoflg repped this.
  15. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    And I have heard that the number of reported Covid-19 deaths is probably higher than most of us would count them. Medicare pays health providers a 20% premium on Covid-19 patients. (Source: American Hospital Association website for their members, discussing how to claim the extra money.) I'm sure there is a wide variance among health care providers but there are multiple reports of deaths being classified as Covid-19 when the patient was imminently dying of another cause but had been diagnosed as also having Covid-19 a day or two before their death. Essentially, anyone who has ever been diagnosed as having Covid-19 and who has died, regardless of the physical cause, is counted as a Covid-19 death.

    So, back to referee/soccer effects. We are facing a "chaotic' reopening process. I think 'locally focused' would be a better term than 'chaotic.' Quite a few states are taking a county by county approach. So this could result in some counties in your state having students in school this fall but other counties in the same state doing instruction on line. I doubt that many states will allow sports programs at schools where students are not physically in the building. But our committee (coaches, AD's, state administrators) has raised the question of 'can my team from county X go play in county Y because our county isn't 'open' and county Y is?' This could be a problem for assignors and referees, depending on where they live.

    There have been and will be discussions about having schools only or mostly play local teams, regardless of normal league alignments or even school sizes. That could generate fewer or more geographic or traditional rivalry games, and probably more blow outs. It may also be that the season gets compressed, e.g. if in building school starts at the end of September instead of the end of August, so are the number of games reduced? Or do they play more games per week? I think that in most areas, the number of officials will not be larger than the number last year, which would not bode well for the more games per week scenario. Varsity boys solo, anyone?

    Of course, all of this is less likely to be a major problem for those states that play soccer in the winter or spring, for either or both sexes.

    From the statistics published by the Oregon Health Authority (and, yes, YMMV), teenagers are the demographic least likely to be Covid-19 positive, BY FAR. (Remember that 40 to 70%, depending on your county/state/country, of Covid-19 fatalities have been residents or employees of nursing homes or assisted living facilities.) I would not have any concern about my 'social distancing' from them. They might have concerns about social distancing from me, however, and from their coaches.
     
  16. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    This is some talk in NJ about switching some HS seasons around, but I think it may be very difficult to accomplish due to fields and us, the officials.

    For example, if they shifted football to the spring and baseball to the fall, and leave soccer where it is, there are plenty of schools that use the expansive outfields as the soccer fields, and then there is the question of how many referees/umpires would be needed. Football plays 3 days a week at most, with sub varsity games in the afternoon and varsity games either Friday/Saturday night or Saturday afternoon. Sub varsity crews are much smaller.

    i don’t know if it’s logistically possible.
     
  17. Barciur

    Barciur Member+

    Apr 25, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    So a little concerning news I got from our association here in PA. They posted a "Return to Play Protocols". This is what they have for the GREEN PHASE, which is the PA governor's last phase of reopening - "the new normal".

    More on our protocols here
    https://www.epysa.org/return-to-play-protocols-/

    That makes me seriously question when will they allow actual play then, if green phase only allows training? And for how long? We are only getting into yellow phase on June 5th, with no turning green for the foreseeable future.
     
  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to make lemonade out of the lemons we've been provided and work harder on my angles as opposed to being right on top of the play. Chris Penso gave a great presentation at one of the RWISOA webinars a few weeks ago that showed how having a good angle is every bit as beneficial, if not more so, than being very close to the play. One of the common points from many of my assessments has been to work more on angles instead of trying to run a play all the way down. So this is a good way to work on that - in addition to some of the quickness and agility work I've been doing this summer!
     
  19. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Penso's presentation was outstanding. When I center it is only on small sided games, U12 and below. I had gotten into a bad habit of keeping my feet still when the ball is in the PA and leaning over to get a better angle. I would be close to the action, but sometimes just lean over when screened. My ARA was watching one day and told me I did a great job moving my feet in the middle third, but need to keep my feet moving when I need a better angle in the attacking thirds. He was right. Moving away from the action but laterally to get a better angle makes me see better.
     
    dadman and RefIADad repped this.
  20. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I used to umpire baseball, and the #1 thing we were taught as baseball umpires is to have a still head when making a call. Yes, get the right angle, but don't make a call while moving. There are times where I follow that too much on the soccer field, especially when getting closer to goal. I had the chance to watch a state tournament match I centered last year on YouTube after the game, and I realized that I often stood near the arc - particularly on corner kicks and free kicks. Yes, I had a still head, but I wasn't nearly dynamic enough to see changes in play. I also realized that I don't get over to the right side of the penalty area when the ball is in the AR's quadrant nearly enough. My coverage maps from games I center clearly show that (a real advantage of using the StatSports GPS tracker during games for me - I can see where my areas of coverage really center on). I normally get as far as the right side of the penalty arc, but not much more to the right than that.

    Penso's presentation was one of the best clinic presentations I've ever attended, and I emailed him to let him know how much I appreciated it. I would strongly encourage every referee to watch that presentation.
     
    dadman and voiceoflg repped this.
  21. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    Do you have a link to the video?
     
  22. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.rwisoa.com/rwisoa-webinar-series

    This link will take you to all of the webinars on-demand and give you the ability to sign up for the final two live ones. You have to register to watch the replays, but that's just entering your name and email address. Not a big deal.

    The Unkels are presenting next week (June 12th). Penso's presentation was Week 7 (May 15th). I usually don't attend the webinars live, as they are 2-2 1/2 hours on a Friday evening. Robert Sibiga presented in Week 2. They have had some big names present so far. I know I've lobbed my fair share of criticism at Dr. Joe, but I actually thought his presentation in Week 2 was very good.
     
    Scrabbleship, soxfaninny, chwmy and 2 others repped this.
  23. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    you didn’t lie. You have quite the eclectic taste of music from Bad Blood, to 2001: A Space odyssey, to Jazz greats. Awesome seeing the different tastes.
     
  24. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    FWIW, this concept is not new! Dr. Bob Evans (ex FIFA referee, FIFA Referee Instructor, USSF National Instructor/Assessor), produced a terrific video on DVD titled "Angle of View" many (15-20?) years ago. It was made available for free distribution. Some copies may still be around.

    PH
     
    RefIADad and frankieboylampard repped this.

Share This Page