This board has been too quiet lately. But remember the good old days of 3 or 4 years ago? JOB was at Ajax. Stewart at DCU. And there were several threads discussing the quality of the Eredivisie. The main question was "how good is the league after the big 3?" Beasley went to PSV and he did well against domestic competition, not so well against CL competition. That really supported the theory that the quality dropped off considerably after Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord. Then Bradley is signed to a mid-level Dutch team and after 2 years is scoring like mad. Once more the Eredivisie is called a "top-level European league" on these boards. But his performance last night raised serious questions about his ability. Yes there were coaching decisions that affected it, but I saw, too often, poor decision making and ineffectual attempts at winning the ball. He could not deal with the often physical play of the Mexicans. No doubt his ball handling skills are very good, but dribbling up the field 15 yards doesn't help the team much. Is Bradley's success (like Beasley's) due to the strength and defensive commitment of his surrounding cast?
I think it's a good league for a very young player because I just believe that Dutch coaching is good at developing players. While the Eredivisie is a great place to start, playing well in the league shouldn't be the apex of one's career. 20 year olds have bad games quite a bit and are inconsistent. Braldey played on Saturday with Heerenveen and few 5000 miles away to play a game with a team he hasn't been practicing with. It was a tough situation for him. BigSoccer is frequently too impatient with young players. Bradley is going to be fine. I am actually a fan of Clark, Edu, and Bradley even though they are all competing for essentially the same job. All of them, if healthy, will and should be on the 2010 team
I do not think Bradley played all that badly. I definitely will not say that it was a good showing for him either. However, when playing the center-mid position, you need support from your other center-mid and Rico was no where to be found. I thought Bradley worked really hard on defense. He had a few turn-overs in midfield, but looked to be the only player in the first eleven that tried to combine with his teammates instead of lumping the ball over the top. I do agree that the Eredivisie is not that strong of a league compared to Germany, Italy, Spain and England. However, I believe that it is on par or slightly better then the Scandinavian, Belgian and French leagues. The style of game in Holland is very different from a U.S. vs. Mexico match. To me, Bradley needs to learn to adjust for these competitions and I believe he will given time.
1. The Eredivisie is a good league, a league where attacking soccer is valued, but even the top teams are feeders for La Ligua, Serie A etc. 2. Bradley's goal scoring at H-veen is a tribute to how well he meshes with his team mates and the attacking style of the team. He has been doing a great job of finishing but it isn't like he is creating goals out of nothing. Im not trying to minimize what he has accomplished, but I don't think it is something that he is going to come close to repeating at future teams he plays on. All my opinion. 3. I don't think Bradley played well either last night, but I am not surprised considering he played on Saturday, flew to Houston and has a big match against PSV this coming Saturday. To me, he looked tired last night and not fully into it. I'm sure one of his own personal goals of last nights match was to return to H-veen in good shape for Saturday. I wouldn't put much weight on his performance last night.
I think the Dutch league compared to other european leagues would be the equivalent of the Blackburn Rovers for the EPL. The not the best but can definitely play spoiler on any given day.
First of all, I would sharply disagree with the notion that DMB struggled in the Champions League for PSV. Arsenal was the only team to shut him down, he scored 5 goals including a couple of really key strikes, had great showings against the likes of Lyon and AC Milan. Anyway... Right now, I'd say the Eredivisie is slightly down in quality from the previous 4-5 seasons. When you lose players like Van Bommel, Sneijder, Zlatan, Alves, Vennegoor of Hesselink, Alex, Boulahrouz, etc over short a short span, it takes time to for youth and newcomers to raise the star power level. There are still a good 12-15 dudes who will be on Prem or La Liga fields before too long. That being said, the competitiveness within the league is up. It wasn't so long ago it was "the big 3, a couple middle punchers and a bunch of dregs". Now you have 4-5 teams with title-capable squads, 4-5 teams a bit below them a few "on their day" competitors and... well, then a few dregs. Despite being a very offensive league, the defense is much better than people assume when they see an isolated highlight of awful defending. In fact, Eredivisie defenses do quite well considering the quantity and quality of attacks headed their way each game. As for Mikey, well he's just running his ass off to the right place and taking his chances. At this point, he's scored in almost every run of play way you can think of, but naturally when you have 16 goals already, some of them are bleeders and squeakers and that's okay too. Is this the new thing to expect from him? I'd guess it's probably somewhere in the middle of what we thought of him before and what we are starting to think of him now. He is definitely benefiting from a H'veen team that likes to move the ball quickly and haul ass. Both of the main forwards are clever at setting up goals as well, and midfielders like Pranjic and Poulsen love to work combos and swing in crosses... it's a tactical set built to strike on the break and Verbeek is moving his quality pieces around well. Whenever he moves on, there is no telling how he'll be used or what his responsibilities will be. If he went to Ajax to play one of the top two slots in the midfield triangle, we'd probably keep expecting some solid offense from him... if he went to Everton to replace Lee Carsley, it would probably be better to hope for seasons with 5-6 goals instead of 20.
You've got to remember that he scores as much as one of the top hitters of Europe, Roy Makaay, who is facing the same defenses. So that should tell you volumes. I read some comments after the Mexico match bashing Mike, but hey, the players he has around him with Heerenveen are of another class then what he plays with in the USMNT. He has players like the Croats that hammered the English out of the EC2008 tournement, Pranjic and Medusomething for a start.
When Mike dribbled around two-three Mexicans yesterday, Eredivisie looked pretty good to me. Match report from yesterday's Netherlands-Croatia match (don't look if you don't want to know). http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/match?id=235206&cc=5901 On the pitch to start - de Cler, Heitinga, van Bronckhorst, de Zeeuw, Huntelaar. That's half of the team. Subbed in : Afellay, Emanuelson - half of 4 subs MvB made) The Croatian squad featured mostly big league based players + Srna (Shakhtar Donetsk) and the $20-$30M rated Modric.
Wasn't Beasley PSV's leading goalscorer in the Champions League the year they made it to the semi-finals? And then the very next year he was running circles around AC Milan's defense. Anyways, I have to agree that if Bradley's performances and goal scoring this year statistically place him up there in the elite company of world class players that have gone on to dominate Europe, then I don't think it matters that much that all of their statistics may be inflated by the quality of the league. I mean just going back to that stat that feyenoordsoccerfan posted about how Bradley is 2 goals away from being one of the league's top 5 single season midfield goalscorers from the past 10 years, with players like Sneider, Van Bommel, and Van der Vaart also up there, I have to say there's something more there than what the thread starter is implying.
For me one aspect of the league that raises a few questions is the amount of games that end in ridiculous scorelines. Like Heernveen's recent 7-0 victory, for example. And didn't Afonso Alves score something like 8 goals in a single game this season? Seems like these kinds of games happen quite frequently, but maybe a Dutch poster could fill us in a bit more as to how often (and why) it happens.
The slow pace of the league and the slack defense obviously means what works there won't necessarily work elsewhere. It's ranked 8th in the UEFA so it's not garbage.
I think the league is a fine place to develop in general and in particular for Bradley. However, it appears to me that Bradley was not used to the intensity and lack of space in the midfield that he faced last night.
I posted the following in another forum: I know you don't want anthing mentioned about the Dutch leage - Eredivisie. However, I do want to mention that Carlos Salcido had an equally terrible game. I was wondering if anyone had any insight into a possible connections. I was horrified by MB's play because he is usually much more consistent. His passing was incredibly lazy (half a dozen times). Carlos Salcido got wasted at left back and burned multiple time by LD (I think my case is proven by Sanchez pulling him first). Both these players were out of sorts last night. Maybe it's travel. However, I know Bradley has played in a lot of cup games and league games (weren't they in the UEFA knockout round?). However, I never see the play in the Eredivisie due to lack of chances (a glance here and there on the highlights from Fox Soccer Channel). I do see there score lines and there seems to be a lot of scoring, which brings me to a very natural conclusion: is there no defense in Holland??? Look at their transfers: alves, babel, and soon to be Bradley. Alves and Bradley's numbers are extraordinary. They are very offensive oriented players. Again, I want some insight because it could lend some insight regarding the game last night (bringing the discussion back to the task at hand). The game last night was played very tight and fast. Is there more time on the ball in the Eredivisie??? Maybe I am way off. Insight requested. I agree that salcido got raped last night. However, both Bradley and Salcido have played will before. Maybe it's a case of Bradley being tired. Clint looked the same.
I think people are reading waaaaaaaaaay too much into a single game performance. One game doesnt make or break a players career or future. It doesnt diminish anything he has done in previous club and country performances and it doesnt dictate future performances. Players have bad games, its as simple as that right now. I know everyone likes to argue and assume the sky is falling, but the kid is 20 years old and played half a world away on the previous weekend and plays a very important club match vs PSV this upcoming weekend, so its easy to see why he may have struggled. Not trying to make excuses, just sound reasoning. Anyone remember Bradley's game vs Brazil in September? Sure he had the horrendous foul resulting in a PK at the end of the game, but he basically stood toe to toe with what most people say is are the best players in the world. As far as the Eredivisie goes, I am no expert but my favorite club team does play in the Eredivise (AZ) and I think most teams in the league have an attacking mentality. Some lower teams in other divisions are happy with putting 11 men behind the ball and trying for 0-0, while the mentality of Eredivisie teams seems to be more of an attack, attack, attack mindset. Obviously there are poor defenders in any league, so that goes without saying but the youth that is abundant in the Eredivisie also lends to lapses in invidual performances that can lead to sloppy defense and inflated scorelines. Disagree if you will, but I dont think the sky is falling for MB in the USMNT (yet)
So playing out of position and with lower quality players doesn't give him a pass? If you want the Heerenveen Bradley tell Papa Bradley to change his tactics.
Good point JuanPeron. Bradley's position in Heerenveen and the US National team is still completely different, as are the tactics of the team. The same applies to Salcido (probably, who knows?) Landon always gets up for US national games, especially against Mexico. Doesn't mean MLS is better than the Eredivisie.
True. But I would give a fair amount of weight to his cummulative performance with the Nats during the past year. And that performance suggests that he's promising young player but also far from being a world beater. The overall performance with the nats does suggest that it is a lot easier to play in the Eredivisie, especially if you are an attacking player. The fact it is a pretty wide open league would make me want to look somewhat skeptically at offensive stats. At the same time it is probably a stiffer test for a young defender.
I don't really think he's played that bad for the US. Especially given that he has to play a completely differeret roll for his club. He looked great in the Brazil game, good against he Swiss, and OK against South Africa. Is he there yet? No way. He needs to get a more defined roll and his dad gets more blame for this by playing his son and other guys like Benny, Landon, and Clint out of their natural positions. But I do think Mike has the potential
Bradley had a bad game last night. It's no secret, but this was just an off day. The Eredivisie is a great league. I've been watching a lot of it recently and it has very good pace. I would like to see Bradley in the BPL of in another league, but this is a great league for him to develop. Don't look to much into this game because he has been tearing it up in Holland.
The Eredivisie, like many other 2nd tier leagues in Europe is purely a developmental league. Take that for what it is worth. There is no point in comparing it to MLS. The best teams in Holland, France, Belgium, etc. are better than the best MLS teams, but the bottom teams are even if not worse. With the fact that the top teams in each of these leagues have more money, attract the best local talent and compete in CL with the best teams in Europe, you will find that there is no way you can compare these teams with MLS and its single owner system which (tries to) level the playing field. Eredivisie is an average league at best. Look at former topscorers like Kuyt and Kezman and you'll see why i'm skeptical at best about 7 goal Alves transition to the best league in the world.