How Does the USMNT Compare against Jamaica?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Master O, Nov 22, 2023.

  1. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How does the USMNT compare against Jamaica?
     
  2. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    We have somewhat better players overall and a coach that is several levels poorer that theirs.
    So, basically, the comparison with Jamaica is about the same as a comparison with almost any CONCACAF team.

    If we play Jamaica in a home and home we should win handily in both legs but we will, probably, struggle a LOT in the away leg and play down to them at home.
    I think we beat Jamaica but we will have it no easier than we did against T&T.

    Of course they have a goalkeeper that can control a match and, if he is on his game, things could get very very interesting.
     
  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Under the new regime, they seem newly committed to recruiting dual nationals. Their most recent roster featured 15 players at or above MLS/C'ship level. Outside of that group, their wiki page lists 13 other players called up who were at or above MLS/C'ship level.

    Their biggest holes are in central midfield.
     
  4. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We’re undoubtedly more talented all around the field, even though they’ve got some talented players. More talented than T&T, for sure.
     
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  5. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jamaica Goalkeeper: 3 time MLS Keeper of the year and 4 time all star. One of the best of all time in the league (I'm biased) but never took his shot abroad.
    USA Goalkeeper: 1 time MLS All Star and Keeper of the year. Did take his shot abroad which has as we all know has been mixed

    Jamaica CB's: A guy who's played every minute for Brentford this year and then the choice of the MLS guy in Lowe or The Championship guy at Sheffield Wednesday with Bernard
    USA CB's: A Premier League Captain for Fulham, and then about 37 different options to start next to him

    Jamaica LB: You have Bell who was starting for Luton Town but hasn't played since early October with an injury. Not sure if he'll be good by March. The backup appears to be a League One Player for Oxford
    USA LB: Starter for Fulham

    Jamaica RB: Starter for Rotterham in The Championship
    USA RB: Dest is suspended, so probably a starter for Gladbach

    Jamaica Mids: Preferred pairing seems to be to a pair of starters in The Championship. One for Coventry the other for Stoke
    USA Mids: Don't know the status of Adams, and if we'll go back to that if healthy but right now pick 3 of a Juventus starter, Milan starter, Dortmund rotational player, and Bournemouth player

    Jamaica forwards: Rotational player for Aston Villa, a starter for Claremont in Ligue 1, a guy who left Everton for Saudi Arabia this season, and a guy who usually starts for Fulham.
    USA Forwards: Starter for Milan, rotational player for Juve, and a guy who was a starter for Monaco but was benched last game


    @Athlone would be a good person to ask about this and correct any mistakes I made above, but this team is really good.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Demarai Gray picked up a dumb red as well, so he won't be there.

    Jamaica has a ton of attacking talent, and they will be more athletic than our team which has absolutely tended to give us trouble.

    Traditionally, whether it is coaching or their federation or whatever, they've really struggled to put the talent together and play cohesively or effectively. They have been the Federation's sleeping giant with their English connection for a long time, and they finally managed to recruit some guys ... and it didn't really come together in WCQ.

    It looks like maybe their new coach, the Icelandic Dentist/Coach, was an inspired hire. It made some sense as long as there was no culture shock -- bring in someone who put together a highly disciplined, defensive team who took tiny Iceland on a couple of really big runs. If the players buy in, you get the attacking firepower of high end talent and shore up the defense with tactics.

    So they could be really tough. Michael Antonio is very good, though aging. He's the dude that hit the banger that gave us a tie in Jamaica in WCQ instead of a win. Leon Bailey has hype, but IMO has always been overrated -- and doesn't really perform for Jamaica. Blake is a star in the back, but I do feel like their defense can be individually mistake prone -- Lowe especially is really physically dynamic and then he'll make a monster error.

    If we have a big edge, it's in the midfield and controlling the game. If Jamaica has an angle, it's Blake -- who, as good as he is in MLS is usually better for Jamaica -- and counterattacking on young or slow defense (if we mirror last window) and a suddenly shaky Turner.

    If we are out Pulisic, Weah, McKennie, Dest and Adams, I'm not actually sure that we have that edge, either. Our attack makes a major downgrade and most of our replacements in the midfield for McKennie are going to get little brothered.
     
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  7. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Favorably.

    The squad for Canada looked like this:

    Goalkeepers

    Andre Blake (captain)

    Amal Knight

    Jahmali Waite


    Defenders

    Ethan Pinnock

    Damion Lowe

    Di'Shon Bernard

    Michael Hector

    Dexter Lembikisa

    Tayvon Gray

    Greg Leigh

    Javain Brown



    Midfielders


    Demario Phillips

    Bobby Decordova-Reid

    Daniel Johnson

    Joel Latibeaudierre

    Jon Russell

    Karoy Anderson

    Deshane Beckford


    Forwards


    Romario Williams

    Leon Bailey

    Shamar Nicholson

    Demarai Gray

    Trivante Stewart


    Starters for Canada looked like this:


    ANDRE BLAKE (C)

    GREG LEIGH
    ETHAN PINNOCK
    DAMION LOWE
    DEXTER LEMBIKISA

    JOEL LATIBEAUDIERE
    DANIEL JOHNSON
    BOBBY REID

    SHAMAR NICHOLSON
    LEON BAILEY
    DEMARAI GRAY

    On paper, that XI is pretty strong. It's got 5 guys (Pinnock, Bailey, Reid, Nicholson, and I'm throwing in Gray who went to Saudi for $$$ but otherwise would be at Palace or Fulham or something) who are top 5 Euro League caliber. Gray won't be available thanks to a stupid double yellow but if Luton's Amari'i Bell returns (he should be back by March), that'll be 5, as he would start at LB over Leigh. A healthy Antonio makes it potentially 6. Blake is arguably the best GK in MLS and is good for 2 or 3 bailouts every game. Most of the rest of the starting XI and the subs who will come in are MLS/Championship caliber (and there's Stewart who is in Serie A, albeit for a relegation threatened side as a bench/rotational guy).

    The attacking quadrant of Reid, Nicholson, Bailey and Gray + Antonio is about as good as any in CONCACAF, on paper. A backline anchored by Pinnock and Bell with a steady Lembikisa (who has established himself in the Championship this season) is fine.

    The key issue is the midfield. I explained in this post why that's a particular problem for Jamaica.

    Expanded 2025 Gold Cup

    Long story short, we don't produce players with the technical ability and discipline to play the #6 or the box-to-box #8 at a very high level, so we can't really control possession well and tend to get bossed in the center, relying on Blake Bailouts and lucky counters to hold on.

    The Canada games were pretty much the same story until the 2nd half of the 2nd leg in Toronto. At halftime, Hallgrimson made a crucial change switching out Joel Latibeaudiere for Michael Hector, and moving Damion Lowe from CB up into the defensive midfield role.

    Latibeaudiere is a 23 year old English-Jamaican who was recruited to join the player pool earlier this year. He was a pretty heavily capped England youth international, winning 30 caps from U16 up through the U20 level, and winning an Under-17 World Cup in the process. He wasn't able to break through at Man City but has established himself as a solid Championship contributor since leaving in 2020. His greatest asset is his versatility - he can play in central defence, left back, right back, or in the defensive midfield.

    I say all of this because he's brought that utility to Jamaica as well, and slotted in as a #6. Jamaica has basically relied on him to anchor the central midfield and, unfortunately, the results have been mixed. He's a solid player but against better teams the shortcomings are there. So at halftime, Hallgrimson brought in a CB in hector, dropped Lati, and moved Lowe to DM.

    (Damion spent a lot of time playing as an attacker during his youth days and his father was a heavily capped forward for the national team, so the move is not as out of left field as you might think)

    Long story short, this move changed the game. Lowe solidified the midfield, neutralizing the Canadian advantage there, and facilitated the comeback.
    I would expect him to start at that #6 role in March. So predicted starting XI will be something like this:

    ANDRE BLAKE (C)

    AMARI'I BELL
    ETHAN PINNOCK
    MICHAEL HECTOR
    DEXTER LEMBIKISA

    DAMION LOWE
    DANIEL JOHNSON
    BOBBY REID

    SHAMAR NICHOLSON
    LEON BAILEY
    MICHAIL ANTONIO

    Demarai Gray is the single most impactful player I've ever seen represent Jamaica. He's a talisman and wildly productive, so his absence is enough for me to get pretty pessimistic about the outcome here, but we have a shot I guess. Bailey is in the best form of his career for Villa with 6 goals and 6 assists in 17 total appearances (3 and 3 in 10 league appearances). we'll need him to have one of his better days for Jamaica in order to give us a shot.

    Also, there are a few new dual nationals that are rumoured to be in the processing stage, the most prominent of which are Reiss Nelson and Mason Greenwood. I don't expect either to be ready in time for this match, but you never know so worth mentioning I guess. Both would be significant boosts to the player pool.

    Bottomline: Not expecting us to win this one. The USMNT is better overall despite our matching up well in a few spots and has homefield advantage. But there's a chance, definitely a better chance than we would typically have had in the last few years imo. So we'll see.
     
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  8. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a squad to mess with they match up very well against us. Going to need to be healthy to beat them
     
  9. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just bc greggg sux dpesnt mea jamaica's coach is several levels better

    regardless of how good or bad jamaica's coach may be in a vaccuum.....Jamaica as a team is quite poor in terms of tactical execution, imo.....they dont play to their talent level, usually, imo

    as a previous poster said, they are missing midfielders that can control games and know how to boss a game......which is a huge thing to be missing.
     
  10. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Well, we looked like crap against TNT. AND Jamaica has good Premier League players.
     
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  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    It is one game in what I assume will be a more than half empty cavernous stadium in Texas because Mexican fans will buy up most of the tickets for the second match.
    I think Jamaica has a puncher's chance. They have veterans and a Keeper who can get hot. All they have to do is stay disciplined and either beat us by some fluke goal or penalties.

    That said, if we are healthy and we play as good as I think we can play we will probably win.
    If I had to make a prediction right now I would say 2-1 USA.
    But a lot can happen between now and March.
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I mean.............the USMNT and Jamaica have played 32 times in history.
    Jamaica has won only 3 of them.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Its Berhalter. Jamaica will just abuse Berhalter.

    FOr Pete's sake!! Look at the record.

    Jamaica has zero wins in the last 6 games.
    That includes the 2019 Gold Cup, 2021 Gold Cup, and 2023 Gold Cup.
    That includes home and away in 2022 WCQers.

    Think about it people. We brought a B team to the Gold Cups. Did the Jamaica "A" team beat the USMNT "B" team in the last two Gold Cups? NO.

    So yes. This is sports. Jamaica is a good squad and has to be taken seriously.
    They have a chance to win this series. Of course, they do. They have some strong talent.

    But the record is the record. The USMNT is better than Jamaica.

    For heavens sake. The inferiority complex of USMNT fans is probably worse than any team on the planet.

    We're the 11th ranked team on the planet, and people here act like we're Nicaragua.
     
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  13. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Jamaica is far more yellow and far more green.
     
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  14. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hallgrimsson is still trying to figure out how Jamaica should play with the talent they have. One interesting change he made in the 2nd half of the Canada match was to move Lowe to a #6 which paid dividends with Lowe's aggression on both sides of the ball.

    Jamaica if they have everyone available is a quality #6 away from being downright scary and a contender for the top spot in CONCACAF. Thankfully Demarai Gray will be suspended for the vs USMNT match.
     
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  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #15 Clint Eastwood, Nov 29, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
    I mean, Jamaica has made at least the semifinal in 4 of the last 5 Gold Cups. It's not some revelation to say that Jamaica has the talent to do damage in CONCACAF. They have for a long time.

    The challenge that a nation like Jamaica has is they're very thin.

    So folks say "if they have their full complement of players" they can be scary. When does the USMNT have its full complement of players? We had Adams, Pulisic, Weah, and others out for the last round of the Nations League. Jamaica will always have players out. You start taking some players out of the central midfield, for instance, and the backups aren't at the level of Mexico or the USMNT.

    You saw the consequences of that in WCQing. They won one HOME world cup qualifier. ONE. They lost to Mexico, Costa Rica, and Panama. Drew with the US, El Salvador, and Canada. That's AT HOME. Only beat bottom of the table Honduras.

    The 2nd leg against Canada is the first match against a "good" team that Jamaica has won in 2023. And Canada hasn't been good. 2022 was a really poor year from then.

    Question: When was the last time that Jamaica beat a team currently in the FIFA top 25? That's going to require you to get into a time machine.

    They're so enigmatic because they have the talent to do better. They just never seem to get over that final hurdle. If they do manage to beat Mexico or the US in a competition, then the other one takes them out. It's like clockwork. The made the semifinal of the 2023 Gold Cup. Mexico beat them handily 3-0. 2021 Gold Cup? The USMNT "B" team eliminated them. 2019 Gold Cup? You guessed it. USMNT beat them. 2017 Gold Cup? You guessed it. They beat Mexico in the semifinal, but then lost to the USMNT in the final. 2015 Gold Cup? You guessed it. USMNT beat them in the semifinal. 2013 they didn't participate. 2011 Gold Cup? You guessed it. USMNT eliminated them. Anyway, I'll stop......................you get the picture.

    Jamaica has played the US, Mexico, and Costa Rica a combined 95 times in history. They've won 12 of those games. [4 times against Costa Rica; 5 times against Mexico, and 3 times against the USMNT.]
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    All that just means they are due for the big upset.

    That 2015 match left me feeling with such a sour taste in my mouth. If we are not careful Arlington can be similar.
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure. They're good enough to beat us.
    That's been the case for 25 years. They have talent. They're good enough to beat anyone in CONCACAF on any given day.

    What's true when you look at their roster is they have a lot of forward talent. A good goalkeeper.

    But their midfield and defense is not at the standard of the US or Mexico. Or Canada, for that matter.

    They had one midfielder or defender on their last roster that plays in a "top 6 league." [I say 6 because in theory Holland has moved past Ligue 1 in UEFA coefficients.] Every single midfielder we called up last window played in one of those leagues. And that was without Adams and McKennie.

    People always talk about Jamaica's forward talent, and just forget about the rest.

    At the recent Gold Cup they started an attacking trio of Antonio, Gray, and Bailey. None of them scored against a USMNT backline of Yedlin, Long, Miazga, and Tolkin. Sands in front of them as the 6. We took Long off at the half and replaced him with 19 year old Jalen Neal.

    For heaven's sake people. We outshot them 12-4 with that vaunted attack. Why? We won the midfield battle, and we won it without any of our "A" team guys.

    So yes, they can win.

    Jamaica hasn't beat a team currently in the top 25 in the FIFA rankings................since 2017. We are the prohibitive favorites, and should be.
     
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  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    All they need to do is stay compact and play defensive and hope Blake is solid as he usually is.

    That is what concerns me.

    By the end of the match the Mexican fans will be slowly walking in, taking over and cheering on the Jamaicans for the upset.

    The longer it is tied or heaven forbid we are losing the less likely it is we win.
    If it goes to Penalties it may feel more like a road match than a home match.

    But that is worse case scenario. As I said, my gut is telling me right now we will win 2-1.
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jamaica has never had the depth of talent that they current have and more may be on the way.

    Yes they have a hole in midfield but if everyone shows up they currently have arguably the best defense line in CONCACAF. Pinnock is a top 30 EPL player according to WS (7.15) ranked just behind VVD and currently leads the EPL in headers won at 4.8. To put that in context Tim Ream has a WS 6.31 rating. They can pair Pinnock with Lowe at CB and have choices from Championship starting FBs

    Pinnock was unavailable for the GC but yes they have a hole in MF that a mobile destroyer and/or a possession hub could fix.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We just follow the recipe for the WCQer in Austin. We absolutely dominated that game.

    Jamaica has the talent. Not in question. Just not the depth.

    We lose Dest for this game against Jamaica, but can plug in a Bundesliga fullback in Scally.
    We can lose McKennie, Adams, Weah, and Pulisic for a series like we just did against T&T. We plugged in Reyna, de la Torre, Aaronson, Paredes, Tillman, Maloney, and those guys. That's Bundesliga, La Liga, Bundesliga, Bundesliga, Eredevisie, Bundesliga. Mission accomplished. Advanced.

    Actually, nobody in CONCACAF can do that other than the USMNT................so there's that.
    Its why we've won back-to-back Nations Leagues. We lose Ream or Richards? Plug in CCV and Trusty or something like that. Celtic and Premier League.

    Jamaica can lose very few guys amongst their "Best XI" and have suitable backups at the same level. Gray, who is definitely suspended for this upcoming game, might actually one guy they can afford to lose.
     
  21. Athlone

    Athlone Member+

    Feb 2, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    He's the one we can least afford not to have, to be honest. It's a huge boost for the USMNT that he won't be there. The attack is very different without him.
     
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  22. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everyone understands that the USMNT has the most top level and the deepest player pool in al of CONCACAF, by far. We had that advantage last cycle and managed to only finish tied for 3rd in the OCHO, only missing having to play the WC play-in match on GD.

    Gray is the one player Jamaica can't afford to lose against top competition. Gray is their only player with the ability to make something happen against a set defense and is also their best FK taker. He is for all intent and purposes their Gio as far as them having success in non-transition moments.
     
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  23. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I'd expect something along the lines of--

    --------------Pulisic----Balogun----
    ---------Reyna---------------McKennie--
    ----------------Torre----Musah----
    -----Jedi--------------------------------Weah--
    -------------Ream-------Richards---
    ---------------------Turner-------

    or

    ------------------------Pepi-
    -----------Balogun------------Pulisic----
    ----------------------Reyna---
    --------------Musah----McKennie---
    ------Jedi--------------------------------Weah--
    ---------------Ream----Richards---
    ---------------------Turner---

    Well, just hoping for something like that
     

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