How can Xavi flourish if he was born in the US?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by tarc, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. tarc

    tarc New Member

    Mar 31, 2010
    It's often said that if Xavi were to be raised in the US, he would never become a top mid-fielder that he is today.

    Many point out that he is not fast, not tall, not strong, not physical enough to be on a top youth team. Largely ignored and under-developed, he will never become a good player.

    To all the coaches out there, do you think that's true? Are there things he can do to overcome the obstacles? Will US have our own Xavi/Inista ... ever?
     
  2. VegasFootie

    VegasFootie Member

    Jun 8, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    In my area I've seen nothing to suggest US soccer isn't a few generations behind the rest of the world. I was told just three days ago by Mr. SoccerWhat Budweiser American; "I had no idea any of this was meaningful. I thought they just kicked and chased the ball around." As he sat and watched his first match at 60+ years old in my front room. That guy doesn't exist in Spain.
    Acknowledging that the MLS has a dozen years existence and not 120 like some of the European leagues is the first step. Managing expectations around that is second.
    All the serious European countries are running multi-tiered leagues. The San Jose Earthquakes don't have a shirt sponsor. http://www.centerlinesoccer.com/top-ten-bad-ideas-for-2012-earthquakes-shirt-sponsors/
    I grew up with zero professional soccer in my area. Cable now brings the best pro soccer on earth to my living room. I grew up sneaking the monthly late night Man U match. The kids I train have access to matches and tools (internet) I couldn't imagine during my youth. Those two things are eliminating the gap suffered by Mr. Budweiser from above. But it will be a long road.
     
  3. BigEffingGooner

    BigEffingGooner Member+

    Apr 25, 2012
    Austin, Tx
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Ok, sorry to go off topic, but ... Xavi and Iniesta are nothing alike. So unbelievably different that it's not even funny. They don't play similar and the points you are making really don't apply to Iniesta at all.
     
  4. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Honestly, I don't think if Xavi grew up anywhere outside of Barcelona Youth system, he would be the player that he is today.

    A player like him is an example of perfect product of the philosophy of the club. How many other clubs/countries have same philosophy as Barca? Not many, if any at all.

    What many fail to understand is that Xavi is a product of a culture and philosophy.

    To answer your question, no I don't think US will have their own Xavi/Iniesta. But so wont most other countries. That's because the culture and philosophies are different.

    However, that's not to say that US can't have a player like say Luca Modric.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  5. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    What?! Xavi and Iniesta have a lot of similarities. If you can't see that, I don't know what are you watching. Sure they have some differences as well, but they are subtle. The obvious difference is that Iniesta is more versatile and better dribbler. Xavi is better at crossing and set pieces.
     
  6. BigEffingGooner

    BigEffingGooner Member+

    Apr 25, 2012
    Austin, Tx
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Alot of similarities? Both are great passers, both can play center mid and both play for Barcelona and Spain. However, Iniesta is far more agile, is a vastly superior dribbler, is often (always for Spain) used on the wing - a position that Xavi could never, ever play. Iniesta is far more mobile, more agile, and more risk taking. Xavi is far more cerebral, play the safe ball, never lose possession (something he is better at than Iniesta). Xavi is tiki-taka expemplified. Perfect first touch, never lose the ball, keep it moving. Iniesta is silky and creative. Very, very different players.
     
  7. BigEffingGooner

    BigEffingGooner Member+

    Apr 25, 2012
    Austin, Tx
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Alot of similarities? Both are great passers, both can play center mid and both play for Barcelona and Spain. However, Iniesta is far more agile, is a vastly superior dribbler, is often (always for Spain) used on the wing - a position that Xavi could never, ever play. Iniesta is far more mobile, more agile, and more risk taking. Xavi is far more cerebral, play the safe ball, never lose possession (something he is better at than Iniesta). Xavi is tiki-taka expemplified. Perfect first touch, never lose the ball, keep it moving. Iniesta is silky and creative. Very, very different players.
     
  8. Monkey Boy

    Monkey Boy Member

    Jul 21, 2006
    Madison, WI
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would agree with the comment regarding differences between Xavi and Iniesta, and argue that these differences would mean Iniesta would have a huge advantage over Xavi to develop as a youth player in the US.

    That being said, just a few years ago some were saying that Xavi no longer fits into the modern game. Then came all of the recent success for Barcelona and that changed. There was now a place again for a small, slow player who isn't great at winning the ball and rarely beats players 1v1.

    For the US prospects though, the first things it appears coaches look for are athletic ability and desire. There is this belief that you can teach skills but you can't teach these physical attributes. Of course there's also a huge confusion among many coaches about the differences between tactical awareness/vision and skills, an aspect of the game that is rarely taught well.
     
  9. tarc

    tarc New Member

    Mar 31, 2010
    So this gets me thinking.
    Is he a system player? Will Xavi be effective in a different system? What will he be like if he plays for say ManU or team USA?


     
  10. BigEffingGooner

    BigEffingGooner Member+

    Apr 25, 2012
    Austin, Tx
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    No, I would not say that he is a system player. Many players like him used to exist and be important. Xavi was always huge, Pirlo is very similar and has always had a place in top sides. However, the game had evolved to a point where many thought that kind of player to be somewhat obsolete and not to have as much of a place any longer. The revitalization/revolution of the 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 systems brought more of a place for that style of player back though.
     
  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There is currently an 11 year old American, smallish in size wearing the #10 shirt at La Masia. His name is Ben Lederman. Maybe it's not too far fetched?



    Ben came through a nice little club in CA with some coaches who know what they are doing. There are coaches out there doing good stuff and training players the right way.

    IMO and limited knowledge of Ben but he can hardly be unique. Even if the expression one in a million were true, we'd still have 300 players like Ben in our youth ranks. To a degree it's not so much that we don't produce these Barca-worthy players but coaches along the way ruin their development.
     
  12. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Based on your comments I can conclude that perhaps you haven't been watching and analyzing the two players enough.

    Xavi and Iniesta are similar in most of their technical abilities, tactical/game understanding, vision, size, mentality, personality and movement. I wouldn't say Iniesta is necessarily more agile, but he is quicker. He is better dribbler. Both are silky and creative. Iniesta is more versatile, can play more positions/roles. Both are excellent at retaining the ball and hardly lose it/give it away.

    No question there are similarities and differences. But the similarities are more than the differences.
     
  13. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I've heard and read about this kid. But if he makes it, would he be a product of the US system or Barca's system? Could he become like Xavi if he stays in US? I doubt it.

    Sure, there are some coaches who do the right things with the kids, but there is very little continuity from one coach to another. One coach may work well, but then the next one may not. The next coach may not even like and select that kid for his team, he may cut him, because the next coach may prefer more physical players.
     
  14. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    As I said Xavi is a product of philosophy and culture, which are the basis of the Barcelona system. The question is not if he can be effective in a different system, but if a different system can produce the same Xavi. My answer would be no.

    The problem is that very little information is available about Barcelona's development system. There are plenty of books and DVDs about other systems and development philosophies, but not enough about Barca's.

    As far as I know, Barca people are not very open to share it. Some of their people have spoken a little bit here and there about their way, but very vaguely. The one thing they've made clear is that they will never sacrifice their way of developing players and having them play in this style in order to win games.

    Another publicly known fact is that Barca's way is based on the Ajax's model. But it has been modified and developed further a few times. Therefore, it is not the same, though it has some similarities.
     
  15. GKParent

    GKParent Member

    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    He's a good player, but I've seen much better locally. I've seen this kid play a number of times:
    I'm not even sure he's the best player on his team.

    Incidentally, the new younger Fire Academy teams are made up of mostly undersized kids. Some of the coaches feel like the game is moving in that direction. Strangely enough, one of the Academy coaches said they had just returned from a visit to Barca, and learned that they are actually doing biometric scans of their youth players' growth plates to see which have the greatest potential for future growth.
     
  16. gilliganmn

    gilliganmn Member

    Jun 14, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It's encouraging to hear that there are enlightened coaches somewhere in the US. Unfortunately elsewhere it's still selection by size and strength.

    If a future Xavi/Iniesta can overcome the size bias they still have one more, even bigger hurdle - the other players on their team. A good player needs other good players. Other players who buy into the same philosophy and have the same soccer philosophy as the future Xavi/Iniesta.
     
  17. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No one can force a coach to be/become "enlightened" and it more has to do about doing right by the players than using coaching as a self-serving tool. I know a lot of good coaches across the country who are development first at every age group.

    Parents need to be more demanding in different ways. Demanding of themselves to actually know what is a good learning environment for their kid and if they are getting their money's worth. Demanding of coaches to be more "enlightened". As a coach, I get hired out to do private sessions for kids whose parents pay $1500-$2500 a year for their club. When we get to work, I discover that these players lack the basic skills—to me, that's not getting your money's worth.

    Let's also not discriminate against size and strength- we need all types of players to make a team.
     
  18. gilliganmn

    gilliganmn Member

    Jun 14, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No worries, that won't happen any time soon :laugh:
     
  19. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I'm not sure how can you say this kid or that kid is better at this age when the difference is marginal and the level of opposition is unknown or incomparable. The kid in your video shows some good technique, but we can't tell for sure what is the level of his opponents when the highlights are solely focused on one player. If I have to make a judgement on his opponents, they look like AYSO players.

    I don't doubt that there are many good players at U8, U9, U10 and U11. I've seen my fair share of impressive players and teams at those ages. That's why I don't think many of our development problems are at those ages. The majority of our problems are becoming more obvious at U12 and older, especially once players transition to playing 11v11.



    It was about time those coaches realized this. I know some of those Fire coaches and I also know someone who used to tell them things a few years ago which they only now begin to realize.
     
  20. genom

    genom Member

    May 27, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Time's are a changing. I think this common statement would have held much more weight a decade ago. It seems now most half witted people involved with soccer now understand that the 5'8 technical players can excel in soccer. I'm not so certain this was the case a decade ago, but with Spain and Barcelona's rise in the last 5 years, one would have to be blind not to realize this.
     
    gilliganmn repped this.
  21. gilliganmn

    gilliganmn Member

    Jun 14, 2007
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Maybe our problem is we've just been exposed to quarter-witted soccer people.
     
  22. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland

    That kid is excellent at any age, is what we should be striving for. I have my doubts that he's really 9 though. If so he's enormous and clearly well developed, because that is not a field full of u10 players, and if he's playing up, he's the same size as that age group.
     
  23. SockerIsLife

    SockerIsLife Member

    May 1, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Want to know our problem? Take a look at ManU's recent F-1 registration to go public. Our problem is we have ONLY 18 MLS teams, the only professional youth academies who are compensated for developing players. Read on...

    Youth academy
    Our youth academy is a primary source of new talent for our first team as well as a means of developing players that may be sold to generate transfer income. The aim of our youth academy is to create a flow of talent from the youth teams up to our first team. Over the past 15 years, over 60 players from our youth academy have achieved a place on our first team, as compared to over 50 players from the transfer market, thereby saving us the expense of purchasing those players in the transfer market. Players in our youth academy and reserve teams may be loaned to other clubs in order to develop and gain first team experience with those other clubs and enhance their transfer value. Players from our youth academy who do not make it into our first team frequently achieve a place at another professional football club, thereby generating income from player loans and transfer fees. Our youth academy program consists of 11 junior teams ranging from under 9s to under 19s. Each team consists of 15 to 23 players, each of whom is assessed during the season.
    Scouting network
    Together with our youth academy, our scouting system is a source of our football talent. Through our scouting system, we recruit players for both our first team and youth academy. Our scouting system consists of a professional network of staff who scout in general and for specific positions and age groups.
    Our scouting system was traditionally oriented towards the United Kingdom, but we have increasingly shifted our focus toward a more international approach in order to identify and attract football players from the broadest talent pool possible.
    Training facilities
    We have invested significant resources into developing a performance center which contains advanced sports and science equipment. We intend to further invest in our training facilities in the near future. We have highly experienced training staff working at the performance center, where we provide physiotherapy, bio-mechanical analysis and nutritional guidance to our players as part of our drive to ensure that each player is able to achieve peak physical condition. We believe the quality of our performance center differentiates our club from many of our competitors. To ensure that we continue to provide our players and medical staff with state-of-the-art technology and facilities, we expect to spend approximately £5 million in each of the years ended June 30, 2012 and June 30, 2013 in connection with updating and expanding Carrington, our training facility.
     

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