How can we help referees? - Bolt

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Geneva, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/blog/2015/3/30/how-can-we-help-referees

    I would love to hear what some of you think about this article. I don't like the comment capabilities on the BigSoccer home page, so am posting this here.

    Personally, I'd love to see the day where the players stop arguing with the referee on the field and treat him with respect. The constant haranguing is ridiculous, and creates an adversarial relationship. Just take the call and get on with it.

    When this was experimented with at a youth World Cup several years ago, it was a breath of fresh air.

    I like David's other suggestions, too, although I don't think I'd support miking up the referees - TMI!
     
  2. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    We should give refs the power to yellow card players other than the captains that argue with the ref.
     
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  3. Golazo

    Golazo Member+

    Apr 15, 1999
    Decatur, GA USA
    As a high school coach, I tell my players from the first day of tryouts that if I hear any commentary on the officiating from players on the bench, the whole team will be treated to extra fitness after the game. I keep players on the field on a very tight leash in terms of their interactions with the ref, but also tell them -- especially when things get heated on the field -- that I have their backs and will take care of the situation IF they follow my rules. I'm amazed how teen boys can get under control once they accept that someone is in their corner.

    As a club parent, I make it clear to my son that any negative language or body language toward the official is disrespecting the game and unacceptable.

    He's now decided he wants to take the intro refereeing course to be able to officiate u8 and u9 games next season, which will be an interesting experiment. I know, and have told him, that he's going to miss some calls and get some unfair abuse. I'm interested to see how he handles it.

    I think if we make the lower levels of officiating less soul-crushing, more people will choose to do the job at medium and high levels.
     
  4. Golazo

    Golazo Member+

    Apr 15, 1999
    Decatur, GA USA
    Also, the pretend pulling of a card to get a card showed to an opponent.... at any level.... is just bullshit.
     
  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's actually nothing in the rules that give the captain special dispensation to talk to the ref. I believe that the only time the captain is even mentioned in the Laws of the Game is that he's the one that delivers the list of PK takers to the refs in the case of a tiebreaking scenario.
     
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  6. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    compared to how big and scary rugby players talk to refs... soccer players can learn a thing or two.
    more yellow cards for dissent and that'll keep players from yepping their mouth
     
  7. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    To follow up on @JasonMa's point: Captains technically don't have any more right than other players to talk to the referee. The three lines in the Laws about the captain are as follows:
    • The referee tosses a coin and the team whose captain wins the toss decides whether to take the first or the second kick
    • If at the end of the match and before the kicks start to be taken from the penalty mark, one team has a greater number of players than its opponents, it must reduce its numbers to equate with that of its opponents and the team captain must inform the referee of the name and number of each player excluded. Any player thus excluded may not participate in kicks from the penalty mark.
    • The captain of a team has no special status or privileges under the Laws of the Game but he has a degree of responsibility for the behaviour of his team.

    So taking the last one into account, what might be particularly interesting would be to flip this idea around. Tell the refs to yellow card the captain if the behavior of his teammates becomes unacceptable. Captain makes a reckless challenge five minutes into the game and the other players confront the referee? Bam, captain gone for two yellows.

    But otherwise, I think @Golazo has the best point, and the original post covers it as well - the behavior of players and parents at the lower levels is utterly ridiculous, especially given the extremely low stakes. The retention rate of new referees is extremely low, and a big part of that is due to the behavior of parents. Part of is learned from above, yes, so MLS / other organizations could help, but the youth leagues need to play a much bigger role in policing parents as well.
     
  8. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I thought my comment was pretty clear that this should be added to the game. Isn't that what this thread is for? Changes to help the refs?

    o_O
     
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  9. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It makes sense to me that, along with a rule for an automatic yellow for players who argue with or gesture towards the ref, I would allow the captain some leeway to discuss game issues with the ref and argue with him a bit, too.

    The physical intimidation is crazy as well, I hate to see the players crowd the ref, in his face, and he is forced to back up to keep the peace, and he's expected to do it calmly. We expect a lot of the refs.
     
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  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I misunderstood the extent of the change you were calling for. I thought you were just calling for carding non-captains who speak to the refs and I was pointing out that all players could be carded for that, captains have no special rules around them in that area. I didn't realize you were calling for codifying the unwritten rule that captains get more leeway.
     
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  11. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I think that could release some of the pressure on the refs. A non-captain has no reason to argue if he has an officially sanctioned advocate.
     
  12. cthomer5000

    cthomer5000 Member+

    Apr 23, 2007
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Implement and enforce a "You ask for a card, YOU get a card" rule. The shit will end within a month.
     
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  13. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I'm not against that motion. I mean, not all players speak whatever language the ref speaks. That may be the only way for a player to communicate. I think it's fair to approach a ref in whatever way you can but the ref should be able to turn you away if necessary.
     
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  14. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the article was very good. I think micing the refs would be good, though. Transparency usually clears things. Players will act more respectful when they know that their words will be coming through the microphones to millions of viewers.
     
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  15. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've fantasized about what it would look like after a big crowding of the ref, everyone abusing him if he started carding all the players, 5 players on each team sent off, 6 players left to play out the remainder of the match. Mockery of a match? Yes, but the players made it that way with their mockery of behavior towards the ref.
     
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  16. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be epic.
     
  17. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Simon Borg would just cream himself.
     
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  18. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    what kind of communication devices do they use? possible to listen in on their frequency?
     
  19. joehooligan0303

    joehooligan0303 Member+

    Dec 16, 2001
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You definitely cannot have the heated conversations between players and refs going out live on TV broadcasts. The broadcasters would be getting fined every minute by the FCC for the language that was being broadcast. People may call me a prude but I definitely don't want to have to start worrying about constant language like that being heard by my children while we are watching a sporting event. Yeah you can hear the occasional bad language from the crowd during a game or the occasional word yelled by a player, but most of the time it isn't clear enough for kids watching on TV to pick up. If the ref is mic'ed all that would change very rapidly.
     
  20. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Delay loop, various technologies dating back to the 50s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_delay
     
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  21. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm betting that it is encrypted currently.
     
  22. joehooligan0303

    joehooligan0303 Member+

    Dec 16, 2001
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a really great article and really made me stop and think. I have always understood refs are humans and make mistakes, but I have often been very hard on them. I have never really stopped to think about the negative affect that the abuse has.

    One thing I have noticed from watching lots of CONCACAF soccer is how often I see teams/coaches storm the field after games to confront the refs. This happens all the way up to the international level. I think that if a team at any point storms the field to confront the refs the entire team should be kicked out of whatever tournament/competition they are currently playing in. I am completely dumb founded that FIFA has allowed that behavior to continue. This type of thing should not be tolerated at all. There should be zero tolerance for anyone entering the field after a game to confront a ref.
     
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  23. joehooligan0303

    joehooligan0303 Member+

    Dec 16, 2001
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand about delay loops, but they still miss bad language in sports quite often. You will hear the commentators say "sorry for the language you just heard". Having the refs mic'ed will exponentially increase this. The refs mic would have to be muted so much because of the language it would make the entire thing pointless IMO. I can tell you right now at the professional level the bad language pointed at the refs is constant.
     
  24. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, bad language didn't used to happen in rugby? They have the refs continually miced in top level rugby matches and the players are so respectful it comes across as rather strange. IMO, people's behavior will change the more they are made public and have to defend their misbehavior. The broadcaster will get fined, but so will the player. Maybe the player has to pay the broadcaster's fine!? That'll stop it.
     
  25. joehooligan0303

    joehooligan0303 Member+

    Dec 16, 2001
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cool.
    I guess I don't share your optimism about its effect. Just because it seems better in Rugby doesn't mean it will work for soccer. I have been wrong many times though. I also don't see broadcasters being willing to take the risk. Even if it did work it wouldn't be immediate so there would be a window of time where the language continued and slipped through on live broadcasts.

    Obviously all of what I am saying is just an opinion.
     

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