Hope

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by dspence2311, Oct 14, 2021.

  1. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    New Jersey
    it would be one thing of our experienced players had experience. For the most part they don’t. They’re just older. Few played a significant role in qualifying last cycle. I honestly don’t recall any of Lleget, Zardes or Arriola playing a significant role ever. Hell…if you told me none of those players had ever played an away qualifier I’d believe you.

    What I do know is those guys never lined up across from Real Madrid, Milan’s, Bayern’s , Man City et al with their jobs on the line.
     
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #27 gogorath, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    Somehow you called me disingenuous to bring up injuries and availability as if we've had a normal run of them. Insult me, you're not likely to get nicest of responses, but I apologize for dragging in a bunch of other folks into the response.

    We've been hit hard by injuries. Constantly, to basically all of our best players. Then factor in a bunch of these people weren't any good until like a year ago as we have a bunch of young kids developing. Then factor in an insanely crowded schedule because of COVID leading to totally rational decisions like "I'm not going to make my A team play for 12 months straight by calling them into the GC."

    Pretending availability hasn't been a major problem is ignoring the realities of our player pool.

    I was pretty clear what I expect if everyone is healthy:

    -------------Pepi---------------
    Pulisic ----------------Reyna
    --Musah----------McKennie
    -----------Adams--------------
    Jedi----------------------Dest

    Things that I expect could change:
    • I'm not certain on centerback pairings. Gut says Brooks and Robinson but I could see a wildcard
    • No idea on keeper, but gut says Steffen
    • We could see Aaronson or a midfield wildcard sometime, but I expect not against Mexico. If Reyna is hurt, I expect Aaronson but could see a wildcard at winger.
    Am I 100% certain? No. But I don't really see the confusion at the Best XI level. People act like the Panama game was Berhalter's view of the best choice; it was clear rotation to protect the home teams.

    I'm still not sure we've had the original core 6 start a single game together -- Brooks, Adams, McKennie, Dest, Pulisic, Reyna. I do think they all played at the end of the Nations League final but not sure about sub minutes.

    But really. That's kind of crazy.
     
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  3. Strikerdad10

    Strikerdad10 Member

    Jul 22, 2005
    I agree! Old doesn't equate to experience. Plus experiences can be good and bad

    Don't start an older inferior player an call him experienced. A lot of time his experience was getting his ass kicked by better players
     
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  4. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    The past 2 years:
    - 2nd in GC 2019
    - 1st in GC 2021
    - 1st in NL 2021
    - 2nd in WCQ at the moment

    Overall: 29 W, 5 D, 7 L

    The players seem to like him, they play hard for him, he's open and transparent with the media.

    He's got a few guys he's stuck with too long. If this is a negative pattern and people losing hope than I must be doing this all wrong.
     
  5. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    and this thread is neither news nor analysis., fwiw.
     
  6. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    Pretty ballsy to start 8 players. I mean, you may not like Gregg's decisions but I think yours is pretty insane.

    (jokes)
     
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  7. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    There are easy and logical answers to 95% of the stupid shit that US fans get really upset over.

    In fact, the third post on this page basilcally spells almost all of that out:


    People should settle down.
     
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  8. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    There are still 13 months before the World Cup. What's the rush?

    Some of these players are hardly even starting their professional careers, and we are asking the national team coach to rely on only these wildly inexperienced players to get us back to the World Cup?
     
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  9. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    There have been tons of lessons for this young squad and staff. It's great that they have seemed quick to adapt and have rarely made the same mistake twice.

    Even most of those mistakes have pretty clear explanations.
     
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  10. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I think even if you go entirely by the criterion of who can help the team win now, the issue is largely settled in favor of the younger player. Pretty much at every position.
     
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  11. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Yes, but how you incorporate these players into the team and into a completely different environment than they have ever experienced is extremely important. There is a clear and obvious transition to this young generations of '98s and younger, but there is still time to develop that group before the vital step of bringing them into the national team. It's happening, but there has to been a plan and a process for each of these individual players that is being integrated into the national team in order for that transition to go as well as possible for both them and the team. It would have been stupid and premature to have turned the roster over before qualifying began, or even at this point more than a year out and not even half way through qualifying.
     
  12. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Exactly. If you want this group of players18-23 years old who have never played together before to get some actual meaningful games together, the only way to do that is to have a completely different roster in the middle of the three games so that they can all start in games one and three.

    Or, it's a conspiracy because Farke says so!! wtf
     
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  13. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    It was fine. What could you have possibly been so pissed off about in terms of roster selection in March of 2019???? That was YEARS away from any game that mattered.

    The lack of tolerance for any sort of process whatsoever in this HUMONGOUS transition is absolutely ridiculous. WE DIDN'T QUALIFY FOR THE ********ING WORLD CUP IN 2018!!!! Of course the trek out of those depths is going be a long and arduous.
     
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  14. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Makes sense…
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #40 Clint Eastwood, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
    Indeed. However the 3 games in a short window makes all CONCACAF nations dip into their backups and reserves. Our backups and reserves are the veterans as we saw in game 2 in Panama. Whether those guys last until the WC is another matter. Other nations used their backups/reserves in game 3 and got torched in those games.

    We can all argue about whether Berhalter picked the right guys to be his backups/reserves in the rotation for game 2. That's fair game. But these guys that started and delivered the wins over Jamaica and Costa Rica....................couldn't also all start against Panama.

    People can go around and around and around in circles on these player selections and always will. Those arguments happen in every national team fan base. Its the vitriol on these boards that makes no sense.

    What's amazing is how often Berhalter uses these kids in games that actually matter...................and people still bitch. If he lost against CR, his seat would be extremely hot today. He started a 21 CB in that game who he'd never started before. Chris Richards. A must-win game. That was an incredible roll of the dice. Just like when he chose to start 18 year old Ricardo Pepi in a WCQer. That was even Pepi's first cap! He's been doing this repeatedly.

    I mean, I won't be surprised if he starts three 18 year olds against Mexico in a WCQer next month (Reyna, Musah, Pepi). Then I'll come on this board to find people bitching about the fact that he has John Brooks or somebody that can actually go into a bar in his starting XI too.

    People do realize that if Kellyn Acosta, Paul Arriola, or Christian Roldan started against Costa Rica.................every one of them would have been younger than any player in Costa Rica's starting XI. That's how young the USMNT is. Even most of the guys we call veterans aren't really veterans. Those three guys are only 26.
     
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  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It wasn't fine. It was the beginning of a year wasted on players no longer in the mix trying to learn a system we are no longer trying to play. His ridiculous player selection is one of the reason we are trying to qualify with a group of players that have limited minutes together,

    Maybe the lack of tolerance is due to the year wasted selecting an inadequate coach and waiting for him to finish his season with Columbus. Their actions didn't show any urgency to the supposed humongous situation.
     
  17. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Good lord, the average age for the previous lineup was 22 years old. How many games could these guys have expected to have played together before this one? Pulisic would be a senior veteran in that lineup.
    It seems many of you would have wanted a line up of all 20 year olds and younger which would be ridiculous.
    I don't care who Berhalter called in 2 years ago, I care who he's currently calling in. I don't care who got the most minutes under Berhalter in 2019 or 2020 because that has no bearing on who he will call in going forward.
    FBs seem to be Robinson and Dest, midfield seems to be MMA with Leget and Acosta, then maybe Busio. Forwards Pulisic, Reyna, Pepi, Aaronson, Weah, Ariola, CBs Robinson, Brooks, Zimmerman, Richards.
    How many of those guys are either really really young or have dealt with injuries over the last year or so? I'd say most.
     
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  18. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Does it seem that way? Who would comprise that lineup in addition to Pepi and Reyna and Musah? Are there 8 other 20 and unders that people are calling for? Who?

    Me too. Given the talent pool we have, why call in an attacking midfielder who kills attacks, over other available players who are not only better but play for teams in which Lleget could not even make the 18? Ditto Arriola. We saw against CR what this team can look like when the elite players who can play with speed, vision and touch comprise the front 6. Why keep throwing monkey wrenches into that?
     
  19. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    #44 RossD, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
    I mean calling in the current roster 2 years ago, when Musah and Pepi would have been 16, etc.
    We're complaining about 2 players, Arriola and Letget out of 23. Contrary to what most are saying Berhalter has not been afraid to go young and inexperienced, Pepi and Richards both got their first caps in WCQs.
    Berhalter likes Arriola and Letget, we need to deal with that. And I think Arriola brings some calm and patience to the midfield that is needed. If the other 5 starters are Pulisic, Pepi, Reyna, Adams, and Mckennie, Letget can play an effetive role. I'd prefer Musah but I can see why Berhalter would like Letget.
    I think everyone would admit those 5 are Berhalter's starters when healthy and inform, though many would not like to.
     
  20. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Weak links affect the performance of the entire chain.
     
  21. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Uhm, ok! Considering the team is not a chainlink fence I don't really see how your analogy is relevant.
     
  22. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    I understand your view. I disagree. I think comparing Musah v Panama with Musah v CR illustrates the vale of the analogy. But agree to disagree.
     
  23. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Berhalter dropped Yeuill very quickly after people were certain that would never happen. I wouldn't be surprised if we see something similar with Lletget given who is competing with for time in the midfield now. Lletget has been very important over the last year or two. That doesn't mean he will be important over the next year or at the World Cup.

    It's conceivable, if not likely, that Lletget's purpose is to buoy the team (off the field as much as on it) as they are gaining experience.
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    15 caps over 2 years is quick?
     
  25. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    He went into the Gold Cup as a starter on that team and was dropped after a poor first game against Haiti. I don't think he's played a minute since.
     

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