Honestly what gives with hijacking songs????

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by BradDavis, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Don't really care & now do I even know what other MLS team supporters are singing.
     
  2. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea what you're talking about. pro bono? what supporters charge for coming up with songs? what on earth are you referencing?

    what "collective commons" are you talking about? what songs did you come up with that another team hijacked?

    No one is willingly putting these songs out there with the intent of "sharing" them with other supporters, your "collective commons" is imagined.
     
  3. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The examples of other groups stealing songs are numerous and blatant, so obviously someone is paying attention. If you're not the culprit, then what are you defending?

    I think DCU is a shit scum joke of a team and I definitely care about individuality and not singing the same songs as the crying eagles. ;)
     
  4. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because no one charges, doesn't mean it's not pro bono work.

    I really really doubt that is true. When you sing a song that is sung by another team, another League, another country, you're doing it with the impunity of the assumed collective commons. Because we operate on that assumption, so must it be assumed that everything 'produced' in that environ is also in that collective commons. It's not a myth, it's what you personally and your supporters group have subscribed to for over a decade.

    And I'd rather not bore you with the history of Supporters animosity in Division 4
     
  5. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you like going way out onto limbs huh?

    saying that supporters groups influence and inspire each other all across the world is obvious. duh.

    but to wrap that up into some subjective mystical premise where its OK to have 13 teams in the same league all singing the same songs, I think thats a huge stretch.

    Your whole means of approaching the point, by referencing that no money was exchanged for the creation of songs? It's just weird.

    If you derive songs from other leagues and countries and adapt them into your own, then thats awesome. No one is arguing about the nature of the creative process, no one is trying to split hairs over whether or not every single song you sing is 100% original and never sang by anyone else, no one is making that case.

    The point is simply that in MLS, we don't have enough overall originality. Not talking about the global game, just within MLS itself, our groups sing too many of the same songs. It sucks for the people who are making the effort to create new songs.
     
  6. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mysticism? What on earth are you talking about? Do you really not have any idea what a commons is?

    If you don't get it, then leave it alone. Ok, you were saying...

    I hate to point this out, but this is exactly what you're doing

    MLS doesn't exist in a vacuum, but I believe you're about to make your point.

    Do the people who write songs want, like, a trophy or something? They sing songs to show support for their team. You're going to have to show some evidence if you want me to believe they have some other motive
     
  7. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand the premise behind "the commons" but you're misusing it in an odd way. Are you a 15 year old aspiring to be a patent lawyer?

    I'm not concerned about people being reimbursed for their songs or the ownership of the intellectual property, my only real interest is in MLS supporters groups having more individual identities and not ripping eachother off so much.


    You're missing the point. I don't care where the songs came from, I just don't think we should all sing the same ones. If you want to steal a song from Besiktas, then go for it, I just think you should be interested in singing different songs than DC and Philly supporters.

    What does this mean? MLS isn't in a vacuum relative to what?

    MLS has a low salary cap, a love affair with parity, centralized league ownership of the players. We have enough in common already, we don't need to share all the same songs too.

    Some other motive? Really?

    People take joy in being good at what they do. People take joy in being originators, in being creative. Its fun to come up with new ideas and try to one-up your rivals. I'm not clear on how you could be blind to those motivators?

    No one wants a trophy, or a cookie, or any other snide sarcastic thing you could offer. People just want to keep their songs. If you're looking for "inspiration" for songs to sing, you should try looking outside of MLS a little more often.
     
  8. Blu N Houston

    Blu N Houston Member

    Apr 8, 2005
    In your head!
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You want an original Houston song...
     
  9. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then you don't understand about the collective commons. It's not about someone getting paid or holding a patent or any of that. It's about being creative and making the end product better because of it. Open Source Terrace Chants, if you will

    I am, and we do. The fact that there are 'standards' across the League (in a "Dean Martin sings the Standards" kind of way) doesn't defeat this interest, however


    You had suggested that you weren't concerned with the songs sung in Germany or England or Mexico but only in MLS. MLS doesn't have the luxury of living in a vacuum

    This to me sounds more like Eurosnobbery than an actual discussion about the merits of the subject. Take it to You Be The Don


    I'm not blind, I just don't see how those motivations aren't helped by a collective group of songs instead of hindered by it. If I write an amazing Chant, yell it alone at the 37' then sit down, I've accomplished nothing. Someone writing a song used by other supporters is how you build a legacy. Take join from that

    You've changed your argument. Isn't it about us being 'lazy' and 'stealing' songs instead of being 'creative'? Well, stealing from a League One team is just as much stealing, just as much sloth, as stealing from the Western Conference
     
  10. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're funny! The only reason IP or money was brought into this is because of your desire to posit that you created songs "pro bono"... which is just out of context. So combining that with the premise of "the commons" leads one to think you have a desire to focus on the "ownership" of songs. I was responding to your stance and word choice, don't pretend like I'm arguing for the monetization of supporters chants...

    If you think "it's about being creative" then why do you apologize for those who don't make efforts to be so?


    By your logic, it's OK for ANYTHING to become a "standard". Whats our quota? Whats a healthy ratio?

    We are lacking in the original songs department, the league doesn't have enough of them.

    What? I don't care if you take a German song and modify it so that it's your own. Thats not the same thing as 15 teams in the same league all having the same songs.

    So stating facts about our league and our obsession with parity makes me a Eurosnob? What a silly thing to say. I'm an MLS STH and adamant supporter of American soccer, that shouldn't blind me to the facts about how our league is structured.

    I simply have a desire for our teams to have unique identities and not be clones of eachother.

    So back in 98 when everyone was complaining about the clock counting down, did you call them all Eurosnobs then?

    I
    No one I know in a supporters group views their "legacy" as having anything to do with other supporters groups. It's just not true.

    You want to have a legacy for supporting your team, but I don't know of anyone who's introduced an original chant to MLS and then was happy when other SGs ripped it off.


    Nope, wrong again. My point has been consistent. I do think you're lazy and stealing songs, thats a fact. But the real issue is who you're stealing them from.

    MLS supporters culture is a mixture of European and South American styles, much is derivative of something else. You keep trying to reduce the conversation down to this, but its missing the point. Go steal your ideas from another league or country, its lame when all 19 teams sing the same stuff.
     
  11. Hachiko

    Hachiko The Akita on Big Soccer

    Jun 8, 2005
    Long Beach, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love how this thread has become an Achowat-juberish lovefest. Carry on, both of you.
     
  12. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No one has said any such thing. If you don't understand why I said that, pretend I didn't and move on. It's an appositive; treat it as such.

    Because not everyone can be expected to be creative. Some lead, some follow. If you want to lead, be my guest; some are more content following



    Let me be clear: "It is okay for anything to become a standard"

    You can't argue on one hand that there is a high number of original songs being 'stolen' by supporters groups and on the other that there aren't enough original songs

    I can't stress this enough: "Yes, it is exactly the same thing". Soccer is a global game, simply put. An original idea in Slovenia that you like is exactly the same as an original idea from Houston that you like. And using that tune is exactly the same.

    If you're going to pretend that parity is bad for the league, you're falling back on the Eurosnob's #1 argument. And if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

    Or the fact that our League has succeeded where other sports leagues have failed miserably, and the presence of parity and the single-entity structure has been a contributing factor to that success.

    1. 'Each' and 'other' are two separate words.
    2. The teams have unique identities. Does every baseball, hockey, and basketball team in America have the 'same identity' all because they use the chant "Let's Go {Home Team} Clap Clap ClapClapClap"?

    Making sure that the games are played by the correct rules is not in any way the same as the way the League is structured, and I'm not going to let you pretend it is

    Then they're petty and parochial. The reason that MLS is the only league with a Supporters Summit, with a unifying Supporters Organization, is because American Soccer is a different animal. Everyone that enjoys watching a ball being kicked around for 90' who has a bald eagle on their passport needs to be in it together. Be you an Emerald City Supporter, a soldier in the Timbers Army, a Screaming Eagle, or a Midnight Rider, you're an American Soccer fan first, and I'm sure the most of us realize that.

    When I said you were acting childish, it was for comments like this. However it was intended (and I'm going to assume good faith here; that you didn't mean it like this) it sounds like "Waah!! They're taking our song!! My dad's going to beat you up if you don't give it back!"


    If you're lazy for stealing songs, you're lazy for stealing songs. If it's a fact, then it doesn't matter where it's being stolen from

    MLS Supporters Culture is an American style, nothing more and nothing less. If you want original songs, write them. If think it's 'lame' that 18 teams sing the same songs, then be the cool club that doesn't.
     
  13. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Feel free to add constructive comments if you'd like.
     
  14. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    juberish, don't worry about it.

    I see what you are saying and I agree.

    Regarding a "style"

    Each group has their own style. You even see differences in style between groups that support the same team.

    Juberish is correct in saying that in general MLS supporters groups are largely influenced by European and South American Supporters style of support. As time goes on groups will develop more of their own style. But the league is young and so are its SGs and there will not be one homogenized "American Supporters Style"
     
  15. lurpythepirate

    Sep 14, 2009
    Salt Lake City
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not actually sure anyone could do that at this juncture.
     
  16. Hachiko

    Hachiko The Akita on Big Soccer

    Jun 8, 2005
    Long Beach, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I respectfully decline, and prefer to read the subsequent banter.
     
  17. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
    what gives with hijacking songs?

    Speaking of generic:
    "You stole all your songs from us!
    You stole all,
    You stole all,
    You stole all your songs from us!"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Nation_Army
    That riff was being chanted in the streets all over Italy, during the 2006 World Cup.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/jun/18/issevennationarmytheindie
     
  18. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: what gives with hijacking songs?

    Roma fans 'stole' it from Jack White. He took all that time to be creative, not so people would sing and remember his song, but just so he could feel 'accomplished' :rolleyes:
     
  19. juberish

    juberish New Member

    Apr 28, 2010
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: what gives with hijacking songs?

    lulz to you sir.

    You can try be as ridiculous as you want, filibuster with poor logic, thats cool.

    I'll just leave this thread with this; despite all the BS here, I think everyone can agree that originality and new songs aren't bad things. Even if you don't care at all that other supporters sing the same songs, I bet you still value the songs you came up with yourself more. Its fun to have your own unique songs and come up with new ones.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: what gives with hijacking songs?

    Oh, I'm in 100% agreement. My only issue is with those who claim supporters are 'lazy' and 'un-original' when they 'steal' songs from other groups.

    But you do get rep for using 'filibuster', even if I disagree with your use thereof
     
  21. LyotoM

    LyotoM Member

    Apr 1, 2011
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Re: what gives with hijacking songs?

    Stealing from a rival or team in ur own conference is too much
     
  22. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Hijacking songs is Ok as long as you don't demand too high a ransom for their return.
     
  23. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 16, 1999
    Frontier
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shalom, mofos!!! :)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G438mfhnEQ&feature=player_embedded"]maccabi haifa -green apes'02, pyro - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwOU3bnuU0k&feature=player_embedded"]Stevie Wonder - I Just Called To Say I Love You - YouTube[/ame]
     
  24. PattySajak

    PattySajak Member

    Dec 8, 2011
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Re: what gives with hijacking songs?

    You know the chants have so much meaning to each respective team when they can go to any other team in the league and hear the exact same chant subsituted with the home team's name by the local SG's.

    Plus im in total agreement with juberish. I get his point, and achowat should too without trying to toss out convoluted retorts that are really quite redundent and pure jargon. I have to say after reading this discussion I would never once consider the guy a eurosnob because he is blatently stating facts.
    P.S,
    "Oh, I'm in 100% agreement. My only issue is with those who claim supporters are 'lazy' and 'un-original' when they 'steal' songs from other groups."

    I'm not sure how taking other SG's chants inside a conference or division isn't considered any of those characteristics, or being a poser...
    "Because not everyone can be expected to be creative. Some lead, some follow. If you want to lead, be my guest; some are more content following"
     
  25. TommyMack

    TommyMack Member

    Jan 24, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The LA Riot Squad starting singing "Aint' Nothin' but a G Thing" over 7 years ago with appropriate hip/hop rhythm in the drums, the "worm synth line" being the chant, and a rather crazy black guy rapping it up front.

    LARS also started singing Bizmarkie's "Oh Baby You Got What Need, But you Say he's just a friend" about 5 years ago for no discernible reason... it was just funny and easy to catch on.

    If I heard either of these sung at ANY club anywhere in the world, I'd smile and think, "Good on them." Hell, they can go on BS or Wiki and claim they were the first and wave it around like a flag. Still wouldn't bother me.

    Too many people CARE. Sorry, but I just don't. It's not our way.

    Then again, it's hard to hear over the sound of THIS MLS TROPHY. ;-)

    Rev.Tommy Mack
    LA Riot Squad
     
    1 person likes this.

Share This Page