Home-grown Taliban?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Demosthenes, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  3. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    String 'em both up!
     
  4. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Yeah, these guys are annoying - and they're extremists - and they should be stopped - and what they do is a crime - that's all true.

    But come on. It appears that their worst crime is property destruction. Have they killed anybody? Have they cheered anybody's murder? Granted, I didn't read the whole site. Just wondering.
     
  5. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    They haven't killed anyone.... YET! Next time they decide to set a fire they might not be so lucky.
     
  6. Garcia

    Garcia Member

    Dec 14, 1999
    Castro Castro
    Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    In certain states, you can get killed for trying to steal somebody's truck!

    It is only a matter of time until some poor janitor is killed when he is just doing his job at night.

    End. Justify. Means.
     
  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It is all the same. Extremists take what they consider to be a good thing (the life of a fetus, their environmental ideas, a certain interpretation of the Koran, etc.) and place the value of this 'good thing' above the value of the life, property and basic rights of everyone and everything else. No matter how strongly we may feel about any specific issue, it is always important to keep it in perspective, lets we become like these radicals.
     
  8. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't forget those GOD hates F A G S people from Kansas. The sooner their all dead the better.
     
  9. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    There are rumors swirling that the Earth Liberation Front was responsible for the start of the fires in California. They have started fires before to destroy businesses (car dealerships, new construction, etc), so I wouldn't put this one past them.
     
  10. Doctor Stamen

    Doctor Stamen New Member

    Nov 14, 2001
    In a bag with a cat.
    Just had a quick look at the ELF website, and they've been playing Final Fantasy VII, whilst listening to Billy Joel way too much. And if they had started those fires in California, well then they're just stupid.

    Although I agree with Argentinesoccerfan, these kind of people do need a good slap.
     
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Ah yes, the "Reverend" Fred Phelps and his people. I wouldn't consider them terrorists, though. Morons, definitely.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Or perhaps there are people on the board who have the ability to distinguish between murder and arson, regardless of the political motivation.

    Hitting the firewater a little early today, are we?
     
  13. OtakuFC

    OtakuFC New Member

    Apr 13, 2000
    Florida
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Yeah, it's not like arson could lead tobillions of dollars in damage or kill people.
     
  14. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Yes, but it's a red herring in the original discussion.

    The comparison is between Holman's Lot and the Taliban/Al Qaeda. Both are religious fundies who advocate murder as the means of achieving their stated goal. Duh. Duh duh duh.

    Yeah, but somehow if that were the case I doubt the thread-starter would compare them to the freaking Taliban. She'd probably have gone with other contemptable, less dangerous wackos like the ELF.

    It's nice to know you're channeling Karl Keller these days.
     
  15. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Yeah, "it's all OK". That's exactly what I said. Is your reading comprehension really this poor? Adult literacy classes - look into them.

    Personally, I see a difference between a call for property damage, versus, say, publishing a list of doctors' names who perform abortions - with a line through the names of those who've been murdered. There's a moral and practical difference there.

    But the reason I posted the article was not to argue over whether the left or the right have more dangerous extremists. I deplore extremism in any form - most especially when it's done in the name of a cause I believe in. It only makes the cause and its supporters look bad.

    My question, really, is this: do we have a home-grown Al-Qaeda in our religious, or if you like, environmentalist extremists here in the US? How serious a threat do these groups pose? Are they a few scattered nuts, or are they a real danger to our homeland security?

    There are many similarities between someone who bombs an abortion clinic and someone who bombs the World Trade Center. We talk a lot about violent fundamentalism in the Middle East, as though only their backwards Muslim despotic regimes could produce that kind of thinking/behavior. But clearly Americans are also capable of it.
     
  16. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    Anyone else see any irony in liberating the Earth?
     
  17. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    This reminded me of a scene in Woody Allen's "Bananas." Demo sounds just like Miss America is testifying against Woody in a mock court scene --

    "Differences of opinion should be tolerated, but not when they're too different. Then he becomes a subversive mother."

    Priceless.
     
  18. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Jesus, perhaps?
     
  19. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    I'm sorry, I thought we were specifically discussing people who commit violent crimes based on their differences of opinion, as opposed to those who just hold extreme views. Was I not clear about that? My bad. I'm beginning to think I need to use shorter words or something.
     
  20. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Well, specifically, you decided that this scum-guy Holman was a terrorist even though he apparently has not actually committed a violent crime. Why? Because it fits your political agenda. This in your clear thinking is within the definition of terrorism because he holds an extreme view and HOPES abortionists are killed. Also, in your clear thinking, actual acts of arson are not terrorism because "it's only property." Then to round it out, upon challenge, you backtrack to the safe haven of full political correctness that you hold dear ... except for chubby girls ... and pretend to ask earnest questions about whether murderers of abortionists are few-and-far-between exceptions or a growing group that we should be concerned about.

    Your bad, indeed.
     
  21. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Well, you know, we killed a lot of Taliban fellows who hadn't committed violent crimes. Why? Because they advocated murder of US citizens as a means to a political end.

    Are.
    You.
    Too.
    Stupid.
    To.
    See.
    The.
    Similarity.

    You betcha.
     
  22. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    You're right - this guy has not committed a terrorist act. But the court has seen fit to order him to keep a certain distance from the clinics, indicating they view him as a potential threat. But that's not the point. It's not so much what this guy has done or hasn't which bothers me - if he only hoped abortion doctors were killed but it never happened, that wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that it does happen (and he does support it). You can ignore that larger problem if you like, and I promise I will not accuse you of ignoring terrorism when it fits your political agenda.

    I did not say that arson is not terrorism.

    I said the ELF group and those who murder doctors are not exactly morally equivalent. I think there is a stronger analogy between the anti-abortion violence and mid-east terrorism, than between this particular ELF group and Al-Qaeda. But I also conceded that, for the purposes of this discussion, we don't need to acknowledge the difference. Did you read that part? You really should read the whole thread. It might help.


    Backtrack? That's brilliant. If I disagree with you, I'm wrong. But if I concede your point, I'm backtracking.

    Never mind that, when I started this thread, I never said anything to imply that the left doesn't have it's own dangerous extremists, nor that the left's extremists are less of a concern than the right's. I only posted the link and the suggestion that terrorism exists in the United States. The questions I posed, which you call pretend earnestness, I thought were implied. Given that some of you aren't too quick on the uptake, I stated them explicitly.

    You saw the link I posted and you assumed I was making a comment about the right, or about Christians, or about abortion protesters. That's your own paranoia. Maybe if you weren't so desperately defensive, you could just address the questions instead of reading some personal insult into them.
     
  23. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    The EARTH, not earthlings.
     
  24. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Home-grown Taliban?

    Right on cue ... Demosthenes' groupie shows up.
     
  25. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *shudder*

    Yes, I was about to bring this up. Tim McVeigh didn't work alone, and he didn't come up with his ideas on his own. Clearly his type poses the most serious threat, or at least most dangerous, of the home-grown terrorist groups.

    My concern is not so much that we're wasting resources on these groups. If they are a danger, as they have proved to be, then fighting them is part of the "war on terror," not a distraction from it, and resources spent in the process are being usefully spent. They are not just a nuisance. They are a serious threat.
     

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