Holland vs. N. Ireland & Estonia - Euro qualifiers

So Ukraine needs to win tomorrow against Serbia? Or else Netherlands will face France or Belgium?

No disrespect to Ukraine as they can easily beat us but France and Belgium are in another class

 

Well, my take is that to become EC2020 champions you will have to beat the strongest anyway, so it doesnot matter when they come, you still have to beat them. I'm not interested like many fans of other nations (especially USA fans) to get beneficial seeding into groups as their only objective is to boast about how far they got into the tournements. The Orange team is in tournements to get into the final, not to get as far as possible by getting eased into beneficial opponents tracks.
Anyway we're at our best if the going gets tough like in the group with WC Italy and runner up France.
Big countries arenot fond of being with us in a group for a reason.
So whatever comes, bring it on.

 

Oh I agree. To be the best you have to beat the best. But if you can avoid a team like France in the group stages then that could be beneficial for how fresh the team is.

 

Qualified to a major tournament, at last! Wow, that's like fresh air after a tumultuous 3-4 years.

That said, ugh... ugly performance today. Nothing to brag about - although I think De Ligt and Van Dijk finished the game unscathed was a good take-home point. Both have been less-than-stellar at their respective clubs, so it was a relief that they left their troubles behind. Frenkie had a solid shift, as did Promes, who was quite lively.

The rest of the squad was mediocre. Lack of spice (Memphis) and energy (Wijnaldum). I must say that I have not seen a more dysfunctional and ineffective pair than Veltman and Berghuis in the right hand side of the pitch today. Zero offensive output, no pace, no coordination, and lackluster defensive effort at best. Hope we won't see this combination again, ever! Babel as a "no. 9" was another head-scratching... he drifted away too much, and his positioning was awful.

I am surprised that NI didn't go out as much as they should have (71% possession to the Dutch, or something like that..?) I wonder if this also surprised Koeman and the team, and screwed up their game plan. The truth is that this team is very much built for, and do a lot better, in an open game and free-flowing scenario. When they overly dominate possession against a parked bus, they struggle with creativity and have a hard time threading the needle. Definitely an improvement opportunity with Euro looming next Summer, as most opposing teams would be happy to sit back against Oranje.

Onwards and upwards.

 

Goodness me that was a dreary performance. We had some nice moments of interplay but they were too few and far between. Our backline seemed to struggle with the crosses they were putting in, though they were of high quality. We were lucky tonight to be honest.

Cillessen made a huge error that almost cost us a goal, at some point he also misjudged a throw and it went straight to the opponent at an unfortunate moment. Also notable, albeit a bit unfair as Cillessen is known to be less-than-succesful in stopping penalties, he dove the wrong way for the penalty. Of course he got away with it cause what's his face missed horribly. We are lacking a big name goalkeeper. Cillessen doesn't inspire a lot of confidence at the moment.

I'm still trying to understand what Berghuis adds to this team, honestly, or how he got into the first line-up today over someone like Stengs. Most of our dangerous attacks came from the left side. Berghuis doesn't have the quality or skills to consistently get by his markers and create something dangerous.

Same for Babel spearheading our attack, I mean, he wasn't bad, but he wasn't particularly good either. He had some decent hold-up plays but simply lacks quality. He has been a nice stop-gap for the time necessary for our talents to break-through, and they have. The sooner Koeman realizes this, the better.

Malen, Bergwijn, Promes, Boadu, Stengs, Depay, and Weghorst as our big target man if needed. No one can seriously tell me that either Berghuis, Luuk or Babel are better than any of these guys. A case could be made for Babel, but he's not getting any younger or any better, on the contrary. Luuk is struggling to score in Spain and missed a lot more than he scored when he was at PSV. He was never really that good honestly. I like Weghorst more as a player in the same mold.

De Roon is another enigmatic player. Trades decent games with a few outliers and sub-par ones like today, which earned him an early substitution. Don't know what to make of him or if he really is a necessary piece of the EC puzzle. Other than Frenkie, Wijnaldum, Donny, and possibly Koopmeiners, who else could be an asset to this midfield?

Our biggest concern are our fullbacks. Blind, I feel, that other than his great crossing/passing feels more comfortable as either a CB or a CDM. He simply lacks the pace to play as a fullback. He'd do Ok against inferior teams, but against top quality opposition with speedy/tricky wingers I think he'll struggle a lot. It's a darn shame Dest didn't pick us, even Mazraoui would be better than anything we have currently. I hope Wijndal keeps growing at the pace he is currently and gets a chance. Worrisome positions.

The second part of the season will be very telling of our true chances in next year's EC. I still feel we will be at our very best at the WC. When all of these very talented players have (hopefully) all cemented themselves as pivotal players for their respective squads.

 

Can you justufy what pressure koeman was under? With this squad any coach would have reached the qualifications. Crap statement.

 

Just look at how the midfield with him or with Donny performed in cooperation with Wijnaldum. Donny made the midfield worse compared to the combo with de Roon.
I'm a fan of Donny and his top contribution to Ajax's midfield in the CL matches, but he doesnot transplant that to the Orange midfield and makes it defensively vulnerable.

 

Ahem.....Hiddink.....Blind.......failed with players that were one penalty shot away from a back to back final. In case you forgot that glaring fact. So even a celebrated coach like Hiddink failed.
Do you remember van Gaal, who failed to qualify with the selection consisting in majority of seasoned two CL finals in a row players?

Being short in memory makes people make these in itself unprovable statements.

 

Be that as it may, I still don't feel as if de Roon is a key piece in our midfield for the EC. Much like Babel, he feels more like a stop-gap. Grit and steel is nice and all, but you can play that role and still be more prominent. Look at Vidal, Kante, Ndidi etc. Koopmeiners, when deployed in midfield is also a lot more prominent, both in the Dutch League and the Europe League. Just my opinion of course.

 

Whel, Koopmeiners could be the upgrade in relation with de Roon, but we donot know it. For the time being the facts support de Roon, feelings donot carry weight.
It woulde be nice to test Koopmeiners in the run up to the tournement, but it means a total reconstruction of the midfield as also Ihattaren is to be embedded.
I really doubt we've got enough time to prepare for the EC2020 and experiment in this fashion with complete overhauls of the midfield.

 

I'm getting increasingly itchy considering the keeper choice as Cillesen was to say the least not the guy who let the defense have the feeling that in case they were breached there still is Jesper to save the day.

 

Well, it's a feeling/opinion based on some facts. Like I've said, seeing both de Roon and Koopmeiners play I feel as if the latter would offer more. Koopmeiners might need more time to be this consistent for a whole season, but based on the first half of this season I'd definitely give him a shot over de Roon. It's not like de Roon is this irreplaceable world-beater. This preference is of course, purely subjective.

 

What bothers me about this game is the lack of pressing and speed of play.
Koeman needs to have his head examined with the selection of the team.
I was really looking forward to seeing Stengs but no we get Berghuis
I’m also getting sick of Cillessen in goal too. He just scares me way too much.
Really missed Memphis and Gini today who add so much quality.
Thank God we qualified and I believe we have lots of talent and potential to become a Powerhouse however can RK get his act together and stop the madness with his love for certain players.

 

That’s roughly correct, though there are some other possibilities if upsets happen to England or Spain, in which case Poland might sneak into pot 1. And Ukraine would just need a draw today.

Should not be such a big deal though with 3 teams advancing from most Euro 2020 groups. And NED will at least be in pot 2 if they beat Estonia. But with extreme bad luck, could get a group like: France, Netherlands, Portugal, Switzerland.

 

Couldn't agree more with this post.

 

With our luck it will be that exact group. However, we have a knack for getting out of groups of death with ease.

 

Frenkie, Wijnaldum, V.d. Beek is my midfield trio!! I wouldn't mind seeing Bergwijn or Stengs, instead of Donny, to slide into the attacking midfield role and/or "false 9" given their exact role in their respective club. Both have better link-up plays than Donny, and better dribblers who can give a different attacking setup.... that said, I think Koeman would be too conservative to try this out unless one of them (Stevie or Calvin) really creates something magical rest of the season. De Roon for defensive reinforcement.

Barring injuries, Strootman will be kept in the final 23 (or 24?)... due to his leadership and experience. This is a young squad, Koeman would need a veteran babysitter to keep the dressing room in check. Koopmeiners will take over after the Euro, maybe he will get one or two looks in warm-up match next few months, just in case.

BTW - Van Dijk pulled out for the Estonia match for a personal reason. Not that it matters. Good time to share playing times with De Vrij (he wasn't on the bench v. NI... is he injured?) or Ake.

 

Just like the rest of the people here I felt really frustrated watching the match. Koeman once again going for a conservative lineup with De Roon and Babel. Even though we all know that De Roon is useless against teams that tend to play bunkerball. Babel was just painful to watch, poor ball control, first touch and almost constantly offside. As expected Berghuis added nothing.

Some other things:

Was never a big fan of Cillessen but he really has regressed over time. From being poor at stopping penalties he is now also a poor shotstopper, makes poor decisions and doesn't really ooze confidence.

Blind was never the fastest player out there but he is now both slow in every meaning of that word. Slow to track back and slow to respond to threats.

Veltman is no alternative to Dumfries. In a lot of ways he is worse, at least Dumfries adds something to the offensive. The leftback and rightback positions are one of our bigger weak spots. As football is getting more defensive and conservative it is important to find right/leftbacks that are able to defend well.

Our biggest problem however is the offense. It's a chaotic, disorganized mess. I had hoped Koeman would give Stengs among others a chance but instead, he brought in Luuk....

 

With Ukraine's last second equalizer it looks like it will be Netherlands and Ukraine in group C with one of Portugal/Switzerland/Turkey/Sweden/Austria and then whoever wins the Playoffs from League A

 

I want Portugal..!! Would rather face them early in the group, rather than in the knockout phase. All group matches will be in Amsterdam... correct? Home advantage is always welcomed.