Hello fellow soccer fans, I love the history of the game and like to speculate on some of the big what-if moments. One of those moments came in 1978. It is well remembered that Argentina had to beat Peru by 4 goals in order to qualify for the finals and ended up beating them 6-0. There are all sorts of conspiracies as to whether the match was fixed or not. However, I haven't heard a lot of speculation about who would have won the final had it been Brazil, and not Argentina, playing Holland in the finals. I'm sure a little bit of anxiety would have left the Dutch, since they wouldn't have had to face the hosts. However, they were facing the always talented Brazilians, without their main man, Johann Cruyff. Who would you guys take in the finals? Thanks, PotomacMD89
Brazil, the Dutch soil their pantaloons at this stage. Brazil was lucky to get away with a point against Argentina though.
Brazil had not some of their main men available either, most notably Zico. One should not forget that. That aside, I still think that Brazil had won, as they always do in tight situations and they had the Havelange bonus. Holland has a good h2h against Brazil though (better as against Germany for example).
Brazil vs Netherlands in WC'78 final? I think, would have been one of the borest final games ever Netherland was way far from the 1974' version. And Brazil was like WC'94 version, but without Romario/Bebeto.
Yeah right ... Argentina got better luck at the end! you must not forget that the last game vs Peru Argentina NEEDED 5goals to pass Brazil and they got it 6 - thanks to Peru given up game. NOte that Peru were TOP in group stage and tied Holland with a 0-0 there! Peru were no China at WC02! Anyhow, I agreed with Misoux that WC was a so-so in term of competitiveness - NO real strong teams - the cup could be well belonged to any of the last 4
No, it wasn't five goals...it was four but three would have placed them even. Also, the Peru loss to Brazil is also suspicious, particluarly since they had beaten them in the Copa America final.
If i remember well, during the match Brazil had better chances than Argentina to win. Enough to said that Fillol was "man of the match" according El Grafico.
Both teams actually did not do well in the first round.... so it was difficult to judge them based on their earlier matches. but since no European team ever wins the WC in South America, I will say Brazil will probably beat them.
What is the source for that? I disagree: Italy was the best team of that tournament. Holland was not spectacular but not really bad either, although the bashers of the English press have a different opinion. Holland was also the best side in the final and met a slightly biased ref, something which was noted by many observants. Also, they were closer to win the Cup than in 1974 and did not lose against Germany this time, which they often do. Finally, as mentioned before, Holland has a good head to head against Brazil.
Lets also bring the fishy calls in the Hungary game and France game on the table I would say.... Dubious red cards and penalty calls. As the ticker tape rained down on the Estadio Monumental pitch in Buenos Aires prior to kick-off on 25 June, the drama that had engulfed the tournament took another twist. Argentina's players, desperate for any advantage they could find, objected to a bandage worn by the Dutch winger Rene van de Kerkhof on his right arm and the start was delayed. Italian referee Sergio Gonella was initially indecisive and the Dutch players, in an atmosphere Johnny Rep later described as "boiling", threatened to walk off. Van de Kerkhof was eventually asked to return to the dressing-room and add another layer of padding, even though he had worn the same plaster in the previous five Dutch games. The contest itself was brutal. Gonella failed to exercise any control as the tackles went flying in and the 50-50 decisions seemed to mostly fall in favour of Argentina. Just before half-time Mario Kempes fired them ahead, only for Dirk Nanninga to head home a leveller eight minutes from time. With seconds left the Netherlands' five-goal top scorer Rob Rensenbrink rolled a shot against the post and when the game went into extra-time, Kempes struck his sixth of the competition to pip Rensenbrink to the Golden Boot, before Daniel Bertoni rolled in to wrap it up and send the Monumental into ecstasy. Funnily, not in 1974 but in 1978 was a hat-trick made. Rensenbrink scored three goals in the Iran game. He is still the only Dutchman to do so.
I'm not interested troll. What I know is that Argentina gave Holland a good ole lesson in the final, the 1-1 after regulation is extremely flattering to the Dutch.
The fact that Holland 78 were struggling at group stage ... even worse than both Brazil / Argentina Holland did have good record against Brazil but they lost more at the end (1 penalty shoot out LOL)
I copy pasted it from the BBC website. Thank you for calling me a 'troll'. With such verbal offenses you are the one and only troll.
Which somehow seems to be an recipe to win a competition. And Holland had no help from the referee in that stage, which darlings often have (Brazil 2002 - Rivaldo; Spain 2010 - countless incidents). Brazil has only one win more. Thanks to a penalty shoot-out, two offside goals (1994), failure to hand out a penalty (1998) and what more. And in all fairness, also look at the side Holland fielded in the 1989 friendly, that was laughable, without any of their star players. All in all, it is simply a better record than against some of the other top sides, with as extreme negative case the (West-)Germans.
In official matches, it's 2-1-1 in favor of Netherlands (counting the WC98 semifinal as a draw). The English seem to have a lot of opinions for a tournament their mediocre side couldn't even make . To me easily Argentina outplayed the Netherlands.
You're right, mentioning Italy as the team who played the most beautiful football in that tournament (btw, something unexpected). But, they were beaten in normal time by Netherlands and Brazil. About the Brazil vs Netherlands, the closer match to an hypothetical final was the WC'74 game. In which the teams were different to the current formations in 1978.
Resumen de El Grafico: Partido mediocre. Se respetaron demasiado y ninguno se animo a atacar. Brasil manejo mejor el trámite por su mayor oficio en la lucha del medio juego y porque allí impuso superioridad numérica. Argentina sin lograr la pelota, no pudo llegar al arco rival y generó una sola situación de gol que fue desaprovechada por Ortiz. Los brasileños se juntaron mejor y alcanzaron a provocar más peligro transformándose Fillol en la figura fundamental por la importancia de alguna de sus intervenciones cuando las posibilidades de convertir eran muy claras. Brasil, demorando intencionadamente el juego y Argentina impotente y sin atrevimiento para buscar el triunfo, terminaron conformándose con la igualdad. Argentina: Fillol (9); Olguin (8), L.Galvan (6), Passarella (6), Tarantini (3); Ardiles (6)(x), Gallego(6), Kempes (4); Bertoni (7), Luque(4), Ortiz(5)(xx). (x) Villa(6) a los 45'. (xx) Alonso(4) a los 60' Brasil: Leao (7); Toninho (5), Oscar (6), Amaral (5), Rodrigues Neto (5)(x); Batista (6), Chicao (8), Mendonca (7)(xx), Dirceu (6); Gil (6), Roberto (4). (x) Edinho (3) a los 34'. (xx) Zico (5) a los 67'. Source: El Grafico, argentinian magazine, 1978, june 18.
I'll do my best to translate Match report: Mediocre match. Both respected a lot and no one dared to attack. Brazil managed better the game for its largest office in the middlegame fight and because they imposed numerical superiority in midfield. Argentina without controlling the ball, could not get on goal and generated a single goal situation that was missed by Ortiz. The Brazilians gathered better and cause more danger, Fillol becoming the main figure for the importance of some of his speeches when the possibilities of converting were very clear. Brazil, intentionally delaying the game and Argentina powerless and without daring to look up the victory, ended up settling for equality. Argentina: Fillol (9); Olguin (8), L.Galvan (6), Passarella (6), Tarantini (3); Ardiles (6)(x), Gallego(6), Kempes (4); Bertoni (7), Luque(4), Ortiz(5)(xx). (x) Villa(6) a los 45'. (xx) Alonso(4) a los 60' Brasil: Leao (7); Toninho (5), Oscar (6), Amaral (5), Rodrigues Neto (5)(x); Batista (6), Chicao (8), Mendonca (7)(xx), Dirceu (6); Gil (6), Roberto (4). (x) Edinho (3) a los 34'. (xx) Zico (5) a los 67'. Source: El Grafico, argentinian magazine, 1978, june 18.
Did you translate this or was it done by a machine: Fillol becoming the main figure for the importance of some of his speeches when the possibilities of converting were very clear. Should be "some of his saves" or "some of his moments".
Good info ... and .. I guess you forgot about GOOGLE (translate) is your friend ... eventhough it might gives us more guessing at the end ..,.. like Puck trying to figure out ... "Speechless SAVES"?
I do not want to argue that the English non-tabloid press is always right. They aren't and are biased. I'm also not sure about whether Holland had won against Brazil but the fact is that Brazil is a good opponent to play against. Lastly, if I speak for myself, I do not want that World Cup. I have more problems with the 1974 edition than the 1978 one. But to imply that Argentina was the one and only deserved winner is the other extreme and although one can argue about referee Gonella, it is a fact that the first choice referee for the final was taken off the match.