Holden out for a quick recovery: Stu at Bolton [R]

With Holden in the side, we would have finished top 8.

 

Yeah I see them selling this offseason...hopefully they can find some adequate replacements.

 

Article from Football365 dealing with Holden's injury/recovery, winning Bolton's POTY award, expected losses to the side and rebuilding process for next season etc

 

Another shout-out for Holden, both from the article and from many comments:

Have Bolton played 'attractive football'? - Zonal Marking

 

Stu did a really long video interview on the Bolton official site, where the fans sent in questions.


http://www.bwfc.co.uk/page/General/0,,1004~2370781,00.html

 

Holden identified as the "star man" for Bolton in 4-4-2's club by club end-of-season review:

http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/fourfo...ton-chelsea-everton-fulham-amp-liverpool.aspx

 

EPL talk with a nice behind the scenes video with Holden.

http://www.epltalk.com/behind-the-scenes-video-with-stuart-holden-at-bolton-wanderers-32161

 

Anyone know the exact prognosis for Stu?

 

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...illion-pound-for-luka-modric-theyve-got-to-be

Luka Modric is valued at more than 20m pounds by Harry.

If Stu comes back next season, and proves this year was no fluke-
what do you reckon Stu is worth? He could play anywhere the way
he was playing...

Same age as Modric....and I think just as good a player (or just slightly below). Modric a bit better going forward and on the dribble but Stu better in the tackle.

I hope to goodness Stu comes back the same, aggressive (but controlled) player he showed last season. He was a marvel...

 

Stu close to Modric? No way.

 

They stole it from USSoccer.com
Love how he goes into his Scottish Brogue with his 'mates' and the 'boys'.
Everyone's his best friend. Klasnic - Robinson - Knight

 

Why?

 

You can't honestly figure that out for yourself and you really think Stu is on his level? I'm a huge fan of Holden but to say he's anywhere near Modric is ridiculous. Modric would fetch somewhere in the 20-30m range where you'd be lucky to see Holden go for something above 10m right now.

-Modric can play pretty much anywhere he's played as AM and on the wings with Zagreb and has played CM and even deeper for Spurs.
-He's great with both feet which makes his dribbling, touch, etc heaps better then Stu's.
-His passing is better.
-He has multiple PL seasons under his belt while Holden only has one and not even a full one at that.
-He played very well for Spurs in the CL.

I don't know why this even needs to be pointed out. It's really obvious.

 

I like Stu. He's a good player with what looks like a bright future ahead of him.

He's nowhere near the same league as Luka. That doesn't mean he's not good, but Luka's a rare talent.

 

Transfer fees are NOT a pure indication of a player's abilities.

Holden has played on the wing too.

Based on what? Holden is fast with the ball but he is in the middle of the park and rarely gets out on the offensive like Modric.

Agreed.

Experience is not talent.

And Holden played very well for Bolton in the EPL.

Your opinion is not fact. I wish more BS posters understood that.

Modric is better offensively and Holden is better defensively. Modric just plays for a bigger club and has a free range to do more. No one ever said Holden was better than Modric, but if you put Holden on a team with comparable talent to Tottenham, you could see similar results. He is playing on a lesser team in a more constrained role.

 

Manchester United is reportedly trying to get either Modric or Sneijder to replace Paul Scholes, and may well not be able to get either. They could have Stu tomorrow if they wanted.

 

Did I say that? No.

Anywhere near as successfully as Modric at Zagreb? No.

Are you implying Modric isn't playing in the middle of the park? Besides that you don't do much to argue against my point so...

This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Besides a players ability this is what teams look for most in a player. There's a reason EPL teams always look to lower level teams like United signing Smalling and Jones and Liverpool getting Henderson because it's safer bet then buying foreign talent.

CL experience or EPL experience... I know which one I would choose.

I never passed off my opinion as a fact so you're wrong again there although im sure if you asked anyone who they'd take in their team they'd pick Modric 7-9/10.

Modric is probably somewhere close to being a top 10 CM in the world why Holden is just getting a full EPL season under his belt. There really is no comparison.

Modric is better offensively and Holden is better defensively. Modric just plays for a bigger club and has a free range to do more. No one ever said Holden was better than Modric, but if you put Holden on a team with comparable talent to Tottenham, you could see similar results. He is playing on a lesser team in a more constrained role.[/QUOTE]

 

Then why bring it up when discussing players' qualities?

Only because has played there less. He was very good as a RM for the US internationally and is a great crosser.

No, I said that Holden plays a more constrained role. Holden is not able to get out on the run as much as Modric because the teams and tactics are different.

Thanks for being so respectful.

Yeah, it wouldn't have anything to do with their nationality . . .

Me too, but you're statement implies that simply because he played well in the Champions League he is a better player.

Really? Because you're speaking in absolutes. If you asked someone in England whether they would rather have Aaron Lennon/Ashley Young or Donovan, who do you think they would choose? Does that make them a better player?

Again, your opinion.

 

You said talent and now you're saying qualities which one is it? If you're discussing a players qualities then yes their valuation by other teams is a fair reflection of that. Talent alone like you said in your first post? No.

Holden and Modric have both seen limited time anywhere but CM. The fact that Modric played out of CM mostly with Zagreb while Holden did it occasional with the Houston Dynamo and second rate USMNT gives Modric a clear edge.

Has Holden ever played CAM? Nope.

That's an excuse more then anything else. Holden has just as much a lease to get forward when Muamba's behind him that Modric has when Sandro, Huddlestone, Palacios, etc are behind him. Holden found himself in the box and driving forward plenty of times this season and he didn't have anywhere near the impact Modric had with his passing, dribbling, movement, etc. Modric with his abilities with the ball wouldn't look out of place playing wing and you can't honestly say the same for Holden when the majority of his wing play consisted of him getting a pass, taking a touch, and whipping in a cross.

Once again you can blame it on that but that's really not the case.

That's a pretty reasonable conclusion to come to. I think most people would agree that a guy playing CM for a team that made it pretty deep for how good they really are in the most competitive club tournament in Europe is better then the guy just getting his feet set in England.

So are you now hinting that Donovan is better then Lennon or Young? Oh my. I never mentioned England I said anyone(who knows anything about soccer) would pick Modric 7-9/10.


Responding to my points saying "Your opinion" doesn't do much to help your case either.

 

Wow! I can't believe I just read six posts arguing about who was better, Holden or Modric.

Sorry, but while I love Stuart Holden, there is nothing he does even as well as Modric, let alone better. Stu has better defensive statistics, but Modric is more than capable of playing a shut-down defensive mid - it's just a waste of his talent to do so. Wayne Rooney can play central defender as well and do a good job, but that would make even less sense.

Transfer Value *is* a measure of how good a player is. Yes, it is artificially inflated for English players, weighted toward attacking players, and adjusted for age, but it is still a measure of how much the experts in the footballing world (i.e., those people who judge talent for a living) rate a player.

Modric and Holden are about the same age, so that evens out. Neither are English and neither has work permit issues, so that also evens out.

Holden is probably worth 3M-5M GBP, 6M at the most if Bolton smell blood and get stubborn enough. Modric is worth 20M-30M GBP. Even adjusting for the weighting toward Modric being more of an attacking player, Luka is still considered, by the experts, to be 3-5 times as good a player as Stuart Holden. I would agree with that assessment.

Being compared to players like Modric is something Holden aspires to, but to put them in the same sentence today is, frankly, homer-ism of an extreme level.

 

Thank you! I honestly couldn't believe what I was reading. You can't compare a player who's attracting interest from Chelsea, United, hell everyone to a guy that is still getting adjusted to life and playing in England. I absolutely love Holden but Modric is just on another level plain and simple.

 

Jimmy Bullard has more PL seasons under his belt so I guess that means he's better than Modric, right? Experience doesn't mean you're better. Also not sure how saying Modric played well in the CL constitutes proof he's better than Holden since Stu hasn't had an opportunity to play in the CL yet.
Granted I'm not saying Holden is better, just don't think the majority of your "proof" relevant.

 

That's taking the fact that Bullard is shit and Modric isn't out of the equation. I didn't say experience was the deciding factor it's just one of many.

Another comment that's similar to the "Holden is restricted" one. This is all just speculation while Modric has played well in the CL as well as playing a huge part in getting his team in the Cl.

You can only compare what's in front of you and at this moment in time Modric has multiple good PL season under his belt as well as a CL campaign while Holden is only just finishing up his first successful season in the PL.

 

But once again, that doesn't constitute proof that he's a better player.

I get that saying Holden CAN perform in the CL is different than saying Modric HAS performed in the CL, but it doesn't mean one player is better. There are a lot of really great players who never played in the CL, but that doesn't mean they weren't good enough to do so nor does it mean they aren't as good as some other player who has. Matt Le Tissier never played in the CL but was clearly good enough to have played well in the competition.

 

It doesn't make it definitive but it's definitely a factor that should be looked at when comparing players. Le Tissier is a rare case where back then loyalty to a club was valued a lot more then it is now where now any player who knows he's good enough to play for a CL team will get to that level more often then not.