Historic World Wide Balon d'Or 23 player short lists

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Shevchenko should have been on 2.8 sorry, as I must've somehow awarded two 3rd places and no 2nd place for the 99 list, but I did have him in 2nd.

    So that top 20 point scorers of the period according to my selections based on Peru's points system is actually like this, with clubs listed being the ones they achieved the points with:
    1) Luis Figo (6.1) - Sporting Lisbon, Barcelona, Portugal
    2) Ronaldo (5.5) - PSV Eindhoven, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Brazil
    3) Rivaldo (4.6) - Deportivo La Coruna, Barcelona, Brazil
    4= Dennis Bergkamp (4.3) - Arsenal, Netherlands
    4= George Weah (4.3) - Paris St Germain, AC Milan, Liberia
    6) Matthias Sammer (4.1) - Borussia Dortmund, Germany
    7) Gabriel Batistuta (4) - Fiorentina, Argentina
    8) Davor Suker (3.9) - Sevilla, Real Madrid, Croatia
    9) Paolo Maldini (3.8) - AC Milan, Italy
    10) Jari Litmanen (3.6) - Ajax, Finland
    11) Rui Costa (3.5) - Fiorentina, Portugal
    12) Raul (3.2) - Real Madrid, Spain
    13= Alessandro Del Piero (3.1) - Juventus, Italy
    13= Juan Sebastian Veron (3.1) - Sampdoria, Parma, Argentina
    15= Jurgen Klinsmann (3) - Tottenham Hotspur, Bayern Munich, Germany
    15= Patrick Vieira (3) - Arsenal, France
    15= Zinedine Zidane (3) - Juventus, France
    18) Andriy Shevchenko (2.8) - Dynamo Kiev, Ukraine
    19= Laurent Blanc (2.6) - Auxerre, Marseille, France
    19= Brian Laudrup (2.6) - Rangers, Denmark
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In that era looks like a clear advantadge from Figo to Ronaldo, and from Ronaldo to Rivaldo.
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    With my choices, yes true!

    With Peru FC and others though maybe not (in fact I had a quick check now, and I see that for example Figo must receive exactly 4 points from Peru's selections in the 90s, while Ronaldo receives exactly 6 points - the difference with my score for Ronaldo could be purely down to Peru FC naming more honourable mentions I guess, but I do have more inclusions of Figo clearly, and some years with him 'in contention' where Peru FC doesn't have him so highly placed too - I do feel that he was consistently a very good player in that era though for sure myself).
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  4. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    #2154 Perú FC, Feb 28, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
    Yes mate, all reference periods are included in statistics, although due to its extension I only show the lists of those that exceed 2 points:

    1995-1999

    6.0 - RONALDO (Brazil)
    4.9 - RIVALDO (Brazil)
    4.6 - BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina)
    4.3 - LITMANEN, Jari (Finland)
    4.0 - DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy)
    4.0 - FIGO, Luís (Portugal)
    3.9 - ZIDANE, Zinedine (France)
    3.8 - ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil)
    3.7 - SAMMER, Matthias (Germany)
    3.5 - BLANC, Laurent (France)
    3.5 - SUKER, Davor (Croatia)
    3.5 - WEAH, George (Liberia)
    3.3 - BECKHAM, David (England)
    3.1 - BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands)
    3.0 - MALDINI, Paolo (Italy)
    3.0 - RUI COSTA (Portugal)
    3.0 - SHEARER, Alan (England)
    3.0 - THURAM, Lilian (France)
    2.9 - ZOLA, Gianfranco (Italy)
    2.8 - KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany)
    2.8 - RAÚL (Spain)
    2.5 - BIERHOFF, Oliver (Germany)
    2.5 - DESAILLY, Marcel (France)
    2.5 - GINOLA, David (France)
    2.5 - HIERRO, Fernando (Spain)
    2.5 - LAUDRUP, Brian (Denmark)
    2.5 - SALAS, Marcelo (Chile)
    2.5 - SCHMEICHEL, Peter (Denmark)
    2.4 - MIJATOVIC, Predrag (Yugoslavia)

    One of the reasons that encourages me to finish the job is that this way you can take averages based on any period you want to take as a base of ideas.

    Indeed, everything is open to adjustments. I was complicated in terms of time in recent months, but now I hope to move faster and at the end rerun a new retrospective from @Tom Stevens's lists with @Ariaga II's lists and other contributions for storage as a database.

    To compare them I leave you here the rest of the list calculated above with all the scores from 2 to below:

    1995-1999

    2.0 - BLIND, Danny (Netherlands)
    2.0 - CANTONA, Éric (France)
    2.0 - CHILAVERT, José Luis (Paraguay)
    2.0 - DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands)
    2.0 - DE BOER, Frank (Netherlands)
    2.0 - DESCHAMPS, Didier (France)
    2.0 - FERRARA, Ciro (Italy)
    2.0 - FRANCESCOLI, Enzo (Uruguay)
    2.0 - JARDEL, Mário (Brazil)
    2.0 - KAHN, Oliver (Germany)
    2.0 - KEANE, Roy (Ireland)
    2.0 - KIRSTEN, Ulf (Germany)
    2.0 - LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark)
    2.0 - PERUZZI, Angelo (Italy)
    2.0 - SAVICEVIC, Dejan (Yugoslavia)
    2.0 - SEEDORF, Clarence (Netherlands)
    2.0 - STAM, Jaap (Netherlands)
    2.0 - VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina)
    2.0 - VIEIRA, Patrick (France)
    1.9 - SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine)
    1.5 - ADAMS, Tony (England)
    1.5 - ARCE, Francisco (Paraguay)
    1.5 - BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy)
    1.5 - BASLER, Mario (Germany)
    1.5 - CAMPBELL, Sol (England)
    1.5 - CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy)
    1.5 - DE BOER, Ronald (Netherlands)
    1.5 - DJORKAEFF, Youri (France)
    1.5 - EFFENBERG, Stefan (Germany)
    1.5 - FERDINAND, Les (England)
    1.5 - FOWLER, Robbie (England)
    1.5 - GIGGS, Ryan (Wales)
    1.5 - GUERRERO, Julen (Spain)
    1.5 - KANCHELSKIS, Andrei (Russia)
    1.5 - KLUIVERT, Patrick (Netherlands)
    1.5 - KOHLER, Jürgen (Germany)
    1.5 - LUIS ENRIQUE (Spain)
    1.5 - McMANAMAN, Steve (England)
    1.5 - MÖLLER, Andreas (Germany)
    1.5 - NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic)
    1.5 - NESTA, Alessandro (Italy)
    1.5 - NILIS, Luc (Belgium)
    1.5 - ORTEGA, Ariel (Argentina)
    1.5 - OWEN, Michael (England)
    1.5 - REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina)
    1.5 - ROMÁRIO (Brazil)
    1.5 - SIMEONE, Diego (Argentina)
    1.5 - VAN DER SAR, Edwin (Netherlands)
    1.5 - VIERI, Christian (Italy)
    1.5 - YORKE, Dwight (Trinidad and Tobago)
    1.0 - ALBERTINI, Demetrio (Italy)
    1.0 - AMAVISCA, José Emilio (Spain)
    1.0 - AMOROSO, Márcio (Brazil)
    1.0 - BAÍA, Vítor (Portugal)
    1.0 - BALAKOV, Krasimir (Bulgaria)
    1.0 - BOBAN, Zvonimir (Croatia)
    1.0 - BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy)
    1.0 - CAMINERO, José Luis (Spain)
    1.0 - CHIESA, Enrico (Italy)
    1.0 - COLE, Andy (England)
    1.0 - CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina)
    1.0 - EDMUNDO (Brazil)
    1.0 - FINIDI George (Nigeria)
    1.0 - GALLARDO, Marcelo (Argentina)
    1.0 - GAMARRA, Carlos (Paraguay)
    1.0 - GIOVANNI (Brazil)
    1.0 - GUARDIOLA, Josep (Spain)
    1.0 - GULLIT, Ruud (Netherlands)
    1.0 - INZAGHI, Filippo (Italy)
    1.0 - JUNINHO Paulista (Brazil)
    1.0 - KÖPKE, Andreas (Germany)
    1.0 - LE TISSIER, Matt (England)
    1.0 - LEONARDO (Brazil)
    1.0 - LIZARAZU, Bixente (France)
    1.0 - LÓPEZ, Claudio (Argentina)
    1.0 - MANCINI, Roberto (Italy)
    1.0 - MARCELINHO CARIOCA (Brazil)
    1.0 - MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany)
    1.0 - MAZINHO (Brazil)
    1.0 - NEVILLE, Gary (England)
    1.0 - OVERMARS, Marc (Netherlands)
    1.0 - PAGLIUCA, Gianluca (Italy)
    1.0 - PAULO SOUSA (Portugal)
    1.0 - PETIT, Emmanuel (France)
    1.0 - POYET, Gustavo (Uruguay)
    1.0 - RAVANELLI, Fabrizio (Italy)
    1.0 - REBROV, Serhiy (Ukraine)
    1.0 - REIZIGER, Michael (Netherlands)
    1.0 - RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands)
    1.0 - SCHOLES, Paul (England)
    1.0 - SCHOLL, Mehmet (Germany)
    1.0 - SERGI (Spain)
    1.0 - SIGNORI, Giuseppe (Italy)
    1.0 - THON, Olaf (Germany)
    1.0 - TOTTI, Francesco (Italy)
    1.0 - VIALLI, Gianluca (Italy)
    1.0 - WRIGHT, Ian (England)
    1.0 - ZAMORANO, Iván (Chile)
    0.5 - AGUINAGA, Álex (Ecuador)
    0.5 - ALBERT, Philippe (Belgium)
    0.5 - ALDAIR (Brazil)
    0.5 - ALEX (Brazil)
    0.5 - ALFONSO (Spain)
    0.5 - ALMEYDA, Matías (Argentina)
    0.5 - ANDERSON, Sonny (Brazil)
    0.5 - ANDERSSON, Patrik (Sweden)
    0.5 - ANELKA, Nicolas (France)
    0.5 - ANGLOMA, Jocelyn (France)
    0.5 - ARVELADZE, Shota (Georgia)
    0.5 - AYALA, Celso (Paraguay)
    0.5 - BA, Ibrahim (France)
    0.5 - BAGGIO, Dino (Italy)
    0.5 - BALBO, Abel (Argentina)
    0.5 - BARESI, Franco (Italy)
    0.5 - BARTHEZ, Fabien (France)
    0.5 - BATTY, David (England)
    0.5 - BEARDSLEY, Peter (England)
    0.5 - BEBETO (Brazil)
    0.5 - BENARBIA, Ali (Algeria)
    0.5 - BLANCO, Cuauhtémoc (Mexico)
    0.5 - BOBIC, Fredi (Germany)
    0.5 - BUYO, Francisco (Spain)
    0.5 - CAFU (Brazil)
    0.5 - CAMPO, Iván (Spain)
    0.5 - COCU, Phillip (Netherlands)
    0.5 - COLLYMORE, Stan (England)
    0.5 - CÓRDOBA, Iván (Colombia)
    0.5 - COUTO, Fernando (Portugal)
    0.5 - DANI (Spain)
    0.5 - DELVECCHIO, Marco (Italy)
    0.5 - DENÍLSON (Brazil)
    0.5 - DI BIAGIO, Luigi (Italy)
    0.5 - DI LIVIO, Angelo (Italy)
    0.5 - DI MATTEO, Roberto (Italy)
    0.5 - DJALMINHA (Brazil)
    0.5 - DUNGA (Brazil)
    0.5 - EDÍLSON (Brazil)
    0.5 - EILTS, Dieter (Germany)
    0.5 - ÉLBER, Giovane (Brazil)
    0.5 - ÉMERSON (Brazil)
    0.5 - ESNÁIDER, Juan (Argentina)
    0.5 - ETXEBERRIA, Joseba (Spain)
    0.5 - FRAN (Spain)
    0.5 - GASCOIGNE, Paul (England)
    0.5 - GUÉRIN, Vincent (France)
    0.5 - GUIVARC'H, Stéphane (France)
    0.5 - HAGI, Gheorghe (Romania)
    0.5 - HASSELBAINK, Jimmy Floyd (Netherlands)
    0.5 - HÄSSLER, Thomas (Germany)
    0.5 - HELMER, Thomas (Germany)
    0.5 - HENDRY, Colin (Scotland)
    0.5 - HENRY, Thierry (France)
    0.5 - HERZOG, Andreas (Austria)
    0.5 - IKPEBA, Victor (Nigeria)
    0.5 - INCE, Paul (England)
    0.5 - JARNI, Robert (Croatia)
    0.5 - JEREMIES, Jens (Germany)
    0.5 - JUGOVIC, Vladimir (Yugoslavia)
    0.5 - JÚLIO CÉSAR da Silva (Brazil)
    0.5 - KANU, Nwankwo (Nigeria)
    0.5 - KAREMBEU, Christian (France)
    0.5 - KIKO (Spain)
    0.5 - KINKLADZE, Georgi (Georgia)
    0.5 - KLOS, Stefan (Germany)
    0.5 - KODRO, Meho (Bosnia and Herzegovina)
    0.5 - KONSEL, Michael (Austria)
    0.5 - LAMA, Bernard (France)
    0.5 - LARDÍN, Jordi (Spain)
    0.5 - LARSSON, Henrik (Sweden)
    0.5 - LE SAUX, Graeme (England)
    0.5 - LEE, Rob (England)
    0.5 - LEHMANN, Jens (Germany)
    0.5 - LOKO, Patrice (France)
    0.5 - MACHLAS, Nikos (Greece)
    0.5 - MAKÉLÉLÉ, Claude (France)
    0.5 - MARCELINO (Spain)
    0.5 - MARCHEGIANI, Luca (Italy)
    0.5 - MARCOS (Brazil)
    0.5 - MARSCHALL, Olaf (Germany)
    0.5 - MARTINS, Corentin (France)
    0.5 - MENDIETA, Gaizka (Spain)
    0.5 - MICOUD, Johan (France)
    0.5 - MIHAJLOVIC, Sinisa (Yugoslavia)
    0.5 - MOLINA, José Francisco (Spain)
    0.5 - MONTELLA, Vincenzo (Italy)
    0.5 - MONTERO, Paolo (Uruguay)
    0.5 - MORIENTES, Fernando (Spain)
    0.5 - MOSTOVOI, Aleksandr (Russia)
    0.5 - NAYBET, Noureddine (Morocco)
    0.5 - N'DORAM, Japhet (Chad)
    0.5 - NOWOTNY, Jens (Germany)
    0.5 - NUNES, Paulo (Brazil)
    0.5 - NUNO GOMES (Portugal)
    0.5 - PALERMO, Martín (Argentina)
    0.5 - PALLISTER, Gary (England)
    0.5 - PANTIC, Milinko (Yugoslavia)
    0.5 - PEDROS, Reynald (France)
    0.5 - PENEV, Lyuboslav (Bulgaria)
    0.5 - PIRES, Robert (France)
    0.5 - PIZZI, Juan Antonio (Spain)
    0.5 - POBORSKY, Karel (Czech Republic)
    0.5 - POLSTER, Toni (Austria)
    0.5 - PREETZ, Michael (Germany)
    0.5 - PROSINECKI, Robert (Croatia)
    0.5 - PROTTI, Igor (Italy)
    0.5 - RAÍ (Brazil)
    0.5 - RAVELLI, Thomas (Sweden)
    0.5 - RINCÓN, Freddy (Colombia)
    0.5 - RÍOS, Roberto (Spain)
    0.5 - RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina)
    0.5 - ROA, Carlos (Argentina)
    0.5 - RONALDINHO (Brazil)
    0.5 - SALGADO, Míchel (Spain)
    0.5 - SEAMAN, David (England)
    0.5 - SENSINI, Roberto (Argentina)
    0.5 - SFORZA, Ciriaco (Switzerland)
    0.5 - SHERINGHAM, Teddy (England)
    0.5 - SHERWOOD, Tim (England)
    0.5 - SIMONE, Marco (Italy)
    0.5 - SOLANO, Nolberto (Peru)
    0.5 - SONGO'O, Jacques (Cameroon)
    0.5 - SÜKÜR, Hakan (Turkey)
    0.5 - SUTTON, Chris (England)
    0.5 - TOLDO, Francesco (Italy)
    0.5 - TÚLIO MARAVILHA (Brazil)
    0.5 - VALDERRAMA, Carlos (Colombia)
    0.5 - VAMPETA (Brazil)
    0.5 - VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands)
    0.5 - VERLAAT, Frank (Netherlands)
    0.5 - VÍCTOR (Spain)
    0.5 - WARZYCHA, Krzysztof (Poland)
    0.5 - WILTORD, Sylvain (France)
    0.5 - WINTER, Aron (Netherlands)
    0.5 - WÖRNS, Christian (Germany)
    0.5 - WOSZ, Dariusz (Germany)
    0.5 - ZAHOVIC, Zlatko (Slovenia)
    0.5 - ZALAZAR, José Luis (Uruguay)
    0.5 - ZANETTI, Javier (Argentina)
    0.5 - ZIANI, Stéphane (France)
    0.5 - ZIEGE, Christian (Germany)
    0.5 - ZORC, Michael (Germany)

    If I'm not mistaken, after a quick look, the only ones who I didn't rank in that period from your names are Iván de la Peña and Dragan Stojkovic.

    I was about to include de la Peña in 1997, but I narrowly cut him for the amount of honorable mentions (he could be there comfortably). Then he declined after the arrival of van Gaal to Barcelona and didn't stand out in Lazio during that period. Actually, maybe I was unconsciously mean to him because I also narrowly cut him from the last list of honorable mentions (2004), when he played for Espanyol. The club barely escaped relegation, but the positive credit was awarded by far to de la Peña-Tamudo duo ("El Dúo Sacapuntos"), so I thought about the possibility of including them both, but aiming for the balance of a limit number of nominees I opted to include only Raúl Tamudo, who was best scored in different performance rankings and had the most prolific domestic season of his career.

    I can't say much about Stojkovic in this period because the Japanese League then was off my radar and I didn't obtain enough international support to value him.
     
    Gregoriak and PDG1978 repped this.
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks Peru! Haha, my contribution gave you a big task to replicate (because of all those HMs) so well done on completing it!

    Yes, I remember De La Pena was certainly a bright prospect in the mid to late 90s, and Stojkovic was surely playing very well in Japan (and also having a good impact when Yugoslavia rejoined the International scene, which showed he could still be of worth in major competitions) but certainly it's difficult to integrate the players of such leagues in exercises like this.
     
  6. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In the local scene. I think, Solano looks a bit underated. Also, "Chorri" Palacios should be ahead of Solano.
     
  7. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    2005

    Modifications on the previous top 23:

    > IN

    PUYOL, Carles (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    TÉVEZ, Carlos (Argentina & Corinthians [BRA])

    < OUT

    BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    COLE, Ashley (England & Arsenal [ENG])

    Top 23

    ADRIANO (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    BALLACK, Michael (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CECH, Petr (Czech Republic & Chelsea [ENG])
    DECO (Portugal & Barcelona [SPA])
    ESSIEN, Michael (Ghana & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    ETO'O, Samuel (Cameroon & Barcelona [SPA])
    FORLÁN, Diego (Uruguay & Villarreal [SPA])
    GERRARD, Steven (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    IBRAHIMOVIC, Zlatan (Sweden & Juventus [ITA])
    KAKÁ (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    MAKAAY, Roy (Netherlands & Bayern Munich [GER])
    MAKÉLÉLÉ, Claude (France & Chelsea [ENG])
    PUYOL, Carles (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Villarreal [SPA])
    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    RONALDO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan [ITA])
    TERRY, John (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    TÉVEZ, Carlos (Argentina & Corinthians [BRA])
    XAVI (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])

    Podium

    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    ADRIANO (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])


    Contenders

    HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    ETO'O, Samuel (Cameroon & Barcelona [SPA])


    Honorable Mentions

    ALEX (Brazil & Fenerbahçe [TUR])
    ALONSO, Xabi (Spain & Liverpool [ENG])
    BAPTISTA, Júlio (Brazil & Sevilla [SPA])
    BERBATOV, Dimitar (Bulgaria & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    BORDON, Marcelo (Brazil & Schalke 04 [GER])
    BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CAFU (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    CAMBIASSO, Esteban (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    CAMORANESI, Mauro (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CARRAGHER, Jamie (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    CARVALHO, Daniel (Brazil & CSKA Moscow [RUS])
    CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    CICINHO (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    COCU, Phillip (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    COLE, Ashley (England & Arsenal [ENG])
    COLE, Joe (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    COUPET, Grégory (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    CRIS (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    DE LA PEÑA, Iván (Spain & Espanyol [SPA])
    DIDA (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    DUFF, Damien (Ireland & Chelsea [ENG])
    EDÚ (Brazil & Real Betis [SPA])
    ÉMERSON (Brazil & Juventus [ITA])
    FERDINAND, Rio (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    GARCÍA, Luis (Spain & Liverpool [ENG])
    GILARDINO, Alberto (Italy & Parma [ITA])
    HARTSON, John (Wales & Celtic [SCO])
    HEINZE, Gabriel (Argentina & Manchester United [ENG])
    JOAQUÍN (Spain & Real Betis [SPA])
    JOHNSON, Andrew (England & Crystal Palace [ENG])
    JUNINHO Pernambucano (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    KUYT, Dirk (Netherlands & Feyenoord [NED])
    LIÉDSON (Portugal & Sporting CP [POR])
    LINCOLN (Brazil & Schalke 04 [GER])
    LUCARELLI, Cristiano (Italy & Livorno [ITA])
    LÚCIO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])
    LUGANO, Diego (Uruguay & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    MARCELINHO Paraíba (Brazil & Hertha Berlin [GER])
    MÁRQUEZ, Rafael (Mexico & Barcelona [SPA])
    MAXI RODRÍGUEZ (Argentina & Espanyol [SPA])
    MINTÁL, Marek (Slovakia & Nürnberg [GER])
    MONTELLA, Vincenzo (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Juventus [ITA])
    NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    OLIVEIRA, Ricardo (Brazil & Real Betis [SPA])
    PAGLIUCA, Gianluca (Italy & Bologna [ITA])
    PARK Ji-sung (South Korea & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    PEREA, Luis (Colombia & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])
    PIRES, Robert (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    PIRLO, Andrea (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    QUARESMA, Ricardo (Portugal & Porto [POR])
    RAMOS, Sergio (Spain & Sevilla [SPA])
    REYES, José Antonio (Spain & Arsenal [ENG])
    ROBBEN, Arjen (Netherlands & Chelsea [ENG])
    ROGÉRIO CENI (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    ROONEY, Wayne (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    THURAM, Lilian (France & Juventus [ITA])
    TONI, Luca (Italy & Palermo [ITA])
    VALDÉS, Víctor (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    VAN BOMMEL, Mark (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    VUCINIC, Mirko (Serbia and Montenegro & Lecce [ITA])
    WILTORD, Sylvain (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    WRIGHT-PHILLIPS, Shaun (England & Manchester City [ENG])
    ZAMBROTTA, Gianluca (Italy & Juventus [ITA])

    All Tops 23
    Honorable Mentions (1920-1984)
    Honorable Mentions (1985- )
     
    Gregoriak and Titanlux repped this.
  8. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    2006

    Modifications on the previous top 23:

    > IN

    TREZEGUET, David (France & Juventus [ITA])

    < OUT

    LÚCIO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])

    Top 23

    BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    COLE, Joe (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    DECO (Portugal & Barcelona [SPA])
    ETO'O, Samuel (Cameroon & Barcelona [SPA])
    GERRARD, Steven (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    JUNINHO Pernambucano (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    KAKÁ (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    KLOSE, Miroslav (Germany & Werder Bremen [GER])
    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    LEHMANN, Jens (Germany & Arsenal [ENG])
    PIRLO, Andrea (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    PUYOL, Carles (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Villarreal [SPA])
    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    ROONEY, Wayne (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan [ITA])
    TERRY, John (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    TONI, Luca (Italy & Fiorentina [ITA])
    TREZEGUET, David (France & Juventus [ITA])
    VILLA, David (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Real Madrid [SPA])

    Podium

    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Juventus [ITA])


    Contenders

    ETO'O, Samuel (Cameroon & Barcelona [SPA])

    Honorable Mentions

    AIMAR, Pablo (Argentina & Valencia [SPA])
    ALEX (Brazil & Fenerbahçe [TUR])
    ALTINTOP, Halil (Turkey & Kaiserslautern [GER])
    BALLACK, Michael (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    BERBATOV, Dimitar (Bulgaria & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    CAMBIASSO, Esteban (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    CAMORANESI, Mauro (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CARRAGHER, Jamie (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    CECH, Petr (Czech Republic & Chelsea [ENG])
    COCU, Phillip (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    CÓRDOBA, Iván (Colombia & Inter Milan [ITA])
    COUPET, Grégory (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    CRIS (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    DANI ALVES (Brazil & Sevilla [SPA])
    DE ROSSI, Daniele (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    DIARRA, Mahamadou (Mali & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    ÉMERSON (Brazil & Juventus [ITA])
    ESSIEN, Michael (Ghana & Chelsea [ENG])
    EWERTHON (Brazil & Real Zaragoza [SPA])
    FABREGAS, Cesc (Spain & Arsenal [ENG])
    FARFÁN, Jefferson (Peru & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    FERNANDAO (Brazil & Internacional [BRA])
    FERNÁNDEZ, Matías (Chile & Colo-Colo [CHI])
    FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Inter Milan [ITA])
    FRINGS, Torsten (Germany & Werder Bremen [GER])
    GAGO, Fernando (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    GALLAS, William (France & Chelsea [ENG])
    GATTUSO, Gennaro (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    HUNTELAAR, Klaas-Jan (Netherlands & Ajax [NED])
    INIESTA, Andrés (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    KALADZE, Kakha (Georgia & AC Milan [ITA])
    KING, Ledley (England & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    KUYT, Dirk (Netherlands & Feyenoord [NED])
    LAHM, Philipp (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    LUCAS LEIVA (Brazil & Gremio [BRA])
    LÚCIO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])
    MAKÉLÉLÉ, Claude (France & Chelsea [ENG])
    MALOUDA, Florent (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    MANCINI (Brazil & AS Roma [ITA])
    MANICHE (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    MARESCA, Enzo (Italy & Sevilla [SPA])
    MÁRQUEZ, Rafael (Mexico & Barcelona [SPA])
    MATERAZZI, Marco (Italy & Inter Milan [ITA])
    MAXI RODRÍGUEZ (Argentina & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])
    MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona [SPA])
    MICOUD, Johan (France & Werder Bremen [GER])
    NAVAS, Jesús (Spain & Sevilla [SPA])
    PALACIO, Rodrigo (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    PAULETA (Portugal & Paris Saint-Germain [FRA])
    PERNÍA, Mariano (Spain & Getafe [SPA])
    PETIT (Portugal & Benfica [POR])
    PODOLSKI, Lukas (Germany & Köln [GER])
    QUARESMA, Ricardo (Portugal & Porto [POR])
    REYES, José Antonio (Spain & Arsenal [ENG])
    RIBÉRY, Franck (France & Olympique de Marseille [FRA])
    SAGNOL, Willy (France & Bayern Munich [GER])
    SCHWEINSTEIGER, Bastian (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    SENNA, Marcos (Spain & Villarreal [SPA])
    SUAZO, David (Honduras & Cagliari [ITA])
    SUAZO, Humberto (Chile & Colo-Colo [CHI])
    THURAM, Lilian (France & Juventus [ITA])
    TIAGO (Portugal & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    TOURÉ, Kolo (Ivory Coast & Arsenal [ENG])
    VAN DER VAART, Rafael (Netherlands & Hamburgo [GER])
    VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG]])
    VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Juventus [ITA])
    ZAMBROTTA, Gianluca (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    ZÉ ROBERTO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])

    All Tops 23
    Honorable Mentions (1920-1984)
    Honorable Mentions (1985- )
     
    Gregoriak, comme, msioux75 and 1 other person repped this.
  9. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    2007

    Modifications on the previous top 23:

    > IN

    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    MILITO, Diego (Argentina & Real Zaragoza [SPA])
    ROBINHO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    ROONEY, Wayne (England & Manchester United [ENG])

    < OUT

    BERBATOV, Dimitar (Bulgaria & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    FERDINAND, Rio (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    VIDIC, Nemanja (Serbia & Manchester United [ENG])

    Top 23

    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    DANI ALVES (Brazil & Sevilla [SPA])
    DIEGO (Brazil & Werder Bremen [GER])
    DROGBA, Didier (Ivory Coast & Chelsea [ENG])
    ESSIEN, Michael (Ghana & Chelsea [ENG])
    FABREGAS, Cesc (Spain & Arsenal [ENG])
    GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United [ENG])
    IBRAHIMOVIC, Zlatan (Sweden & Inter Milan [ITA])
    KAKÁ (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    KANOUTÉ, Frédéric (Mali & Sevilla [SPA])
    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona [SPA])
    MILITO, Diego (Argentina & Real Zaragoza [SPA])
    PIRLO, Andrea (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Villarreal [SPA]/Boca Juniors [ARG])
    ROBINHO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    ROONEY, Wayne (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    SCHOLES, Paul (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    SEEDORF, Clarence (Netherlands & AC Milan [ITA])
    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & Real Madrid [SPA])
    ZANETTI, Javier (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])

    Podium

    KAKÁ (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona [SPA])


    Contenders

    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    DROGBA, Didier (Ivory Coast & Chelsea [ENG])
    RONALDINHO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])


    Honorable Mentions

    AFONSO ALVES (Brazil & Heerenveen [NED])
    AGGER, Daniel (Denmark & Liverpool [ENG])
    ARTETA, Mikel (Spain & Everton [ENG])
    AYALA, Roberto (Argentina & Valencia [SPA])
    BANEGA, Éver (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    BERBATOV, Dimitar (Bulgaria & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    CABAÑAS, Salvador (Paraguay & América [MEX])
    CARRAGHER, Jamie (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    CARRICK, Michael (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    CAZORLA, Santi (Spain & Recreativo de Huelva [SPA])
    CECH, Petr (Czech Republic & Chelsea [ENG])
    CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    DE ROSSI, Daniele (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    DECO (Portugal & Barcelona [SPA])
    ÉVRA, Patrice (France & Manchester United [ENG])
    FARFÁN, Jefferson (Peru & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    FERDINAND, Rio (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    FORLÁN, Diego (Uruguay & Villarreal [SPA])
    FREY, Sébastien (France & Fiorentina [ITA])
    FRINGS, Torsten (Germany & Werder Bremen [GER])
    GATTUSO, Gennaro (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    GEKAS, Theofanis (Greece & Bochum [GER])
    GERRARD, Steven (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    GILBERTO SILVA (Brazil & Arsenal [ENG])
    HILDEBRAND, Timo (Germany & Stuttgart [GER])
    HUNTELAAR, Klaas-Jan (Netherlands & Ajax [NED])
    IBARRA, Hugo (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    INIESTA, Andrés (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    JAVI NAVARRO (Spain & Sevilla [SPA])
    JÚLIO CÉSAR (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    JUNINHO Pernambucano (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    KEANE, Robbie (Ireland & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    KURÁNYI, Kevin (Germany & Schalke 04 [GER])
    LUCARELLI, Cristiano (Italy & Livorno [ITA])
    MAICON (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    MAKÉLÉLÉ, Claude (France & Chelsea [ENG])
    MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    MALOUDA, Florent (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    MANCINI (Brazil & AS Roma [ITA])
    MASCHERANO, Javier (Argentina & Liverpool [ENG])
    MATERAZZI, Marco (Italy & Inter Milan [ITA])
    McCARTHY, Benni (South Africa & Blackburn Rovers [ENG])
    MERTESACKER, Per (Germany & Werder Bremen [GER])
    MOREL RODRÍGUEZ, Claudio (Paraguay & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    MORIENTES, Fernando (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    MUTU, Adrian (Romania & Fiorentina [ITA])
    NAKAMURA, Shunsuke (Japan & Celtic [SCO])
    NALDO (Brazil & Werder Bremen [GER])
    PALACIO, Rodrigo (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    PALERMO, Martín (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    PALOP, Andrés (Spain & Sevilla [SPA])
    PANUCCI, Christian (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    PARDO, Pável (Mexico & Stuttgart [GER])
    PERROTTA, Simone (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    POULSEN, Christian (Denmark & Sevilla [SPA])
    PUYOL, Carles (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    QUARESMA, Ricardo (Portugal & Porto [POR])
    RAMOS, Sergio (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    REINA, José Manuel (Spain & Liverpool [ENG])
    ROGÉRIO CENI (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    SILVA, David (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    SNEIJDER, Wesley (Netherlands & Ajax [NED])
    STANKOVIC, Dejan (Serbia and Montenegro & Inter Milan [ITA])
    SUAZO, Humberto (Chile & Colo-Colo [CHI])
    TERRY, John (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    VALDIVIA, Jorge (Chile & Palmeiras [BRA])
    VAN DER SAR, Edwin (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG])
    VIDIC, Nemanja (Serbia & Manchester United [ENG])
    VILLA, David (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    ZÉ ROBERTO (Brazil & Santos [BRA])

    All Tops 23
    Honorable Mentions (1920-1984)
    Honorable Mentions (1985- )
     
  10. EnnatzIsTheMan

    Meidericher Spielverein
    Mar 16, 2018
    Since the 2020-21 campaign just ended with the termination of the two major continental tournaments, I concluded on my 23-player list in order to complement this beautiful thread and keep it up-to-date. Since @Perú FC was a few seasons behind with his evaluation, I already did for the last few seasons and hopefully did quite well. So I encourage @Ariaga II to share his thoughts too, so we can stick with two-posters expertise per season on this thread.

    Anyway here is my list:

    2020/21:

    Benzema, Karim (Real Madrid, France)
    Bonucci, Leonardo (Juventus, Italy)
    Cristiano Ronaldo (Juventus, Portugal)
    De Bruyne, Kevin (Manchester City, Belgium)
    de Jong, Frenkie (FC Barcelona, Netherlands)
    Dias, Ruben (Manchester City, Portugal)
    Donnarumma, Gianluigi (AC Milan, Italy)
    Fernandes, Bruno (Manchester United, Portugal)
    Haaland, Erling (Borussia Dortmund, Norway)
    Insigne, Lorenzo (Napoli, Italy)
    Jorginho (FC Chelsea, Italy)
    Kane, Harry (Tottenham Hotspur, England)
    Kante, N'Golo (FC Chelsea, France)
    Kroos, Toni (Real Madrid, Germany)
    Lewandowski, Robert (Bayern Munich, Poland)
    Lukaku, Romelu (Internazionale, Belgium)
    Marquinhos (Paris St. Germain, Brazil)
    Mbappe, Kylian (Paris St. Germain, France)
    Messi, Lionel (FC Barcelona, Argentina)
    Müller, Thomas (Bayern Munich, Germany)
    Oblak, Jan (Atletico Madrid, Slovenia)
    Salah, Mohamed (FC Liverpool, Egypt)
    Sterling, Raheem (Manchester City, England)

    Podium:
    1. Lionel Messi
    2. Robert Lewandowski
    3. Harry Kane

    I had to make some tough choices here, regarding the top 3, as well as the 23 selection.
    First of all, concerning the podium, it was a quite close race for sure, I had Mbappe and De Bruyne on my list too, but it was the decent EURO campaign that got Kane in here, while Mbappe wasn't able to step up on big occasions (although he had some phenomenal CL knock-out performances) and De Bruyne struggled too much from injuries in some crucial games (unfortunately). Messi meanwhile got the nod for the top spot ahead of Lewandowski, who broke the Bundesliga record meant to be ever-lasting, but also had bad luck in the CL and in the EUROS (bad luck in the sense of his nationality). Messi however had a very slow start of the season, but still finished as uncontested player of the season in La Liga on displayed a fantastic Copa America, winning his first international title. This was enough for me for sure.

    In the 23 selection, the EUROs messed some things up indeed, as I had to include the main performers of the winners and a decent Raheem Sterling, while some other players had to make room. I did not include players like Neymar or Chiellini as they simply had to few games in the regular season, despite their fantastic national team performances. Suarez was kicked out by his poor CA performances, same as Kimmich and Gündogan who were mediocre at best in the EUROs. Again, I tried to balance positions as much as possible here, but didn't came up with any full-back that performed consistently. Alba was the closest, but I see to much deficits in his game to be honest. Apart from that, I'm quite happy with how I ended up.
     
  11. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    It is a very skewed list. The best players of the 1920s were Romano, Scarone, Andrade and Nasazzi. Uruguayan football was immensely superior. There is no debate.
     
  12. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Got it
     
  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #2163 poetgooner, Jul 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
    I do wonder how much title-winning skew our views.

    For example, if we knew nothing of the 2007-2012 period, would we all assume Spain had all the best players?

    Like, did Uruguay have the best 3-5 players in the world? Or did they have like 5 of the best 30 players in the world and another 5 in the top 50.
     
  14. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    [QUOTE = "poetgooner, post: 39751429, member: 252140"] Me pregunto en qué medida el hecho de ganar títulos sesga nuestras opiniones.

    Por ejemplo, si no supiéramos nada del período 2007-2012, ¿asumiríamos todos que España tenía los mejores jugadores?

    ¿Uruguay tenía los mejores 3-5 jugadores del mundo? ¿O tenían como 5 de los mejores 30 jugadores del mundo y otros 5 en el top 50? [/ QUOTE]

    There was no such dominant team in history as Uruguay and not even Brazil was. And according to the narrative of the time, Samitier said that Scarone was the best player in the world. In Paris they were in awe of Andrade. Nasazzi was the most dominant defender without a doubt, he was elected the best player in the 1926 America Cup and the 1930 World Cup. He was the soul and leader of the most successful team in history. Maybe I had a bias with Romano, since I read that he is the player with the most titles in history. If we talk about leagues, Nacional destroyed half of Europe. Boca did the same.
     
  15. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    The European narrative is highly skewed and Eurocentric. Due to this false narrative, Pelé does not get the recognition he deserves. European football was not always the best. When it comes to analyzing football, the worst mistake that most make is to judge with the eyes of modernity. It is necessary to apply historical context. I think that if Nasazzi played right now with all the advantages of science and technology, he would be a worthy rival for Ramos. It's my opinion, of course.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  16. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    Lham is not close to Dani Alves, it is a pity that such a dire narrative is created that will last a lifetime.
     
  17. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I'm barely watching any football nowadays, so my expertise is highly suspect. :D I'll eventually make a list combining the BdO and ESM, though. Anyone know if the ESM results for this season have been published yet?

    Leaning towards Lewandowski as my vote for top spot, at least.
     
  18. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    The fictional ballon d'Or was stolen from Manuel Seoane. I analyzed his season in the league and it was superior to Messi's in the 2011/12 season.

    1416142064341983235 is not a valid tweet id
     
  19. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He scored a ton of goals vs a diluted Argentina league that was split and only contained half of the countries talent and did not play that seasons internationals. Why should we care?

    Messi did what he did in the best league in the world with international talent.
     
  20. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    [QUOTE = "Tom Stevens, post: 39755799, member: 224012"] Marcó un montón de goles frente a una liga argentina diluida que estaba dividida y solo contenía la mitad del talento de los países y no jugó esas temporadas internacionales. ¿Por qué debería importarnos?

    Messi hizo lo que hizo en la mejor liga del mundo con talento internacional. [/ CITA]

    You are ignoring his record because there was a parallel league hahaha. I showed you that it was not easy to score goals in that league, 2.45 is a very low goal average. And if it was that easy, why the hell didn't another player from his time do it? In the parallel league, the top scorer was Tarasconi with 11 goals in 16 games. Nothing special.
     
  21. EnnatzIsTheMan

    Meidericher Spielverein
    Mar 16, 2018
    In fact, having a scoring ratio higher than half of the league's goals per game ratio is a huge achievement. Statistically, this would mean that on average the player's goals suffice to win a game in the league. This is what I would define a perfect scoring record!
    I don't know of any other player achieving this actually (honestly I didn't really search so there might be some).

    However, Tom's point is pretty clear. Goals per game might have been low in the league, however if the standard was bad, this only indicates that Seoane was a way above standard player, however not necessarily supreme world class. Since there was no international football, we'll never know. Nonetheless, it is clear that Argentinian football by that time was not far away from Uruguayan and therefore I would suggest that Seoane's placement in the top three is quite fair.
    A ranking for football players that played a hundred years ago is total speculation, but I thinks this makes it even more interesting!
     
    elegos7 and anamnesis del fútbol repped this.
  22. anamnesis del fútbol

    Apr 9, 2021
    At least we broke a myth that circulates on social media that before it was easier to score goals. At that time, Rio de la Plata football did not average 3 goals per game like the current Bundesliga. I must also admit that the English league in the year that Andy Wilson was a top scorer averaged less than 2 goals per game. His scoring contribution was incredible, but his team was eighth, this can be negative or positive, depending on the vision you look at. What is certain is that Seoane's goals served to win the title. If we talk about collective successes, in 1920 Ángel Romano should have won the Ballon d'Or . He won 3 titles being important in all. In short, there will always be injustices in this type of assessment.
     
  23. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Overall I think it's a really good list. I think the weighting between club season/Euros/CA is hard, particularly given nobody really was exceptional at the Euros.

    I would say Shaw should be there. Best LB in the PL in the season (maybe Europe) and one of the best in the Euros.

    I'd say Jorginho has been a bit overblown (but not necessarily undeserving of a place in the 23). Was he better than Hojbjerg on a club basis?
     
  24. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    They are in the new issue of World Soccer.
     
    Ariaga II repped this.
  25. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    #2175 Perú FC, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
    2008

    Modifications on the previous top 23:

    > IN

    INIESTA, Andrés (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    SNEIJDER, Wesley (Netherlands & Real Madrid [SPA])

    < OUT

    COLE, Joe (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    MASCHERANO, Javier (Argentina & Liverpool [ENG])

    Top 23

    ADEBAYOR, Emmanuel (Togo & Arsenal [ENG])
    AGÜERO, Sergio (Argentina & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])
    ARSHAVIN, Andrey (Russia & Zenit Saint Petersburg [RUS])
    BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    FABREGAS, Cesc (Spain & Arsenal [ENG])
    FERDINAND, Rio (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    GERRARD, Steven (England & Liverpool [ENG])
    IBRAHIMOVIC, Zlatan (Sweden & Inter Milan [ITA])
    INIESTA, Andrés (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    KAKÁ (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA])
    LUÍS FABIANO (Brazil & Sevilla [SPA])
    MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona [SPA])
    RIBÉRY, Franck (France & Bayern Munich [GER])
    SENNA, Marcos (Spain & Villarreal [SPA])
    SNEIJDER, Wesley (Netherlands & Real Madrid [SPA])
    TONI, Luca (Italy & Bayern Munich [GER])
    TORRES, Fernando (Spain & Liverpool [ENG])
    VAN DER SAR, Edwin (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG])
    VIDIC, Nemanja (Serbia & Manchester United [ENG])
    XAVI (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])

    Podium

    CRISTIANO RONALDO (Portugal & Manchester United [ENG])
    TORRES, Fernando (Spain & Liverpool [ENG])
    XAVI (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])


    Contenders

    CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    MESSI, Lionel (Argentina & Barcelona [SPA])


    Honorable Mentions

    ADLER, René (Germany & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    ALEX (Brazil & Fenerbahçe [TUR])
    ALEX Meschini (Brazil & Internacional [BRA])
    ARTETA, Mikel (Spain & Everton [ENG])
    BALLACK, Michael (Germany & Chelsea [ENG])
    BARRY, Gareth (England & Aston Villa [ENG])
    BENZEMA, Karim (France & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    BERBATOV, Dimitar (Bulgaria & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    BORRIELLO, Marco (Italy & Genoa [ITA])
    CABAÑAS, Salvador (Paraguay & América [MEX])
    CAMBIASSO, Esteban (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    CAMORANESI, Mauro (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Chelsea [ENG])
    CASSANO, Antonio (Italy & Sampdoria [ITA])
    CAZORLA, Santi (Spain & Villarreal [SPA])
    CECH, Petr (Czech Republic & Chelsea [ENG])
    CHIELLINI, Giorgio (Italy & Juventus [ITA])
    CLICHY, Gaël (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    COLE, Joe (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    D'ALESSANDRO, Andrés (Argentina & Internacional [BRA])
    DANI ALVES (Brazil & Sevilla [SPA])
    DANI GÜIZA (Spain & Mallorca [SPA])
    DE ROSSI, Daniele (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    DEMICHELIS, Martín (Argentina & Bayern Munich [GER])
    DIEGO (Brazil & Werder Bremen [GER])
    ÉVRA, Patrice (France & Manchester United [ENG])
    FORLÁN, Diego (Uruguay & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])
    FREY, Sébastien (France & Fiorentina [ITA])
    GÓMEZ, Mario (Germany & Stuttgart [GER])
    GUERRÓN, Joffre (Ecuador & Liga de Quito [ECU])
    GUTI (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    HERNANES (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    HUNTELAAR, Klaas-Jan (Netherlands & Ajax [NED])
    IBAGAZA, Ariel (Argentina & Mallorca [SPA])
    JAMES, David (England & Portsmouth [ENG])
    JÚLIO CÉSAR (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    KANOUTÉ, Frédéric (Mali & Sevilla [SPA])
    KEANE, Robbie (Ireland & Tottenham Hotspur [ENG])
    KEITA, Seydou (Mali & Sevilla [SPA])
    LAHM, Philipp (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    LAMPARD, Frank (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    LESCOTT, Joleon (England & Everton [ENG])
    LÓPEZ, Lisandro (Argentina & Porto [POR])
    MAGGIO, Christian (Italy & Sampdoria [ITA])
    MAICON (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    MANSO, Damián (Argentina & Liga de Quito [ECU])
    MASCHERANO, Javier (Argentina & Liverpool [ENG])
    MUTU, Adrian (Romania & Fiorentina [ITA])
    NIHAT Kahveci (Turkey & Villarreal [SPA])
    NILMAR (Brazil & Internacional [BRA])
    OLIVEIRA, Ricardo (Brazil & Real Zaragoza [SPA])
    PALERMO, Martín (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    PANUCCI, Christian (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    PIZARRO, David (Chile & AS Roma [ITA])
    PODOLSKI, Lukas (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    RAMOS, Sergio (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    ROBINHO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    ROGÉRIO CENI (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA])
    ROONEY, Wayne (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    SAGNA, Bacary (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    SANTA CRUZ, Roque (Paraguay & Blackburn Rovers [ENG])
    SILVA, David (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    TERRY, John (England & Chelsea [ENG])
    TÉVEZ, Carlos (Argentina & Manchester United [ENG])
    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    TREZEGUET, David (France & Juventus [ITA])
    TYMOSHCHUK, Anatoliy (Ukraine & Zenit Saint Petersburg [RUS])
    VAN DER VAART, Rafael (Netherlands & Hamburg [GER])
    VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & Real Madrid [SPA])
    VARGAS, Juan (Peru & Catania [ITA])
    VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Estudiantes de La Plata [ARG])
    VILLA, David (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    YOUNG, Ashley (England & Aston Villa [ENG])
    ZANETTI, Javier (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA])
    ZÉ ROBERTO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])
    ZHIRKOV, Yuri (Russia & CSKA Moscow [RUS])

    All Tops 23
    Honorable Mentions (1920-1984)
    Honorable Mentions (1985- )
     

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