2003 Modifications on the previous top 23: > IN: Claude Makélélé (France & Real Madrid [SPA]) < OUT: Michael Ballack (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER]) Top 23 BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Juventus [ITA]) DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus [ITA]) DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy & Juventus [ITA]) HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG]) MAKAAY, Roy (Netherlands & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA]) MAKÉLÉLÉ, Claude (France & Real Madrid [SPA]) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan [ITA]) MUTU, Adrian (Romania & Parma [ITA]) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Juventus [ITA]) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & AC Milan [ITA]) NIHAT Kahveci (Turkey & Real Sociedad [SPA]) PIRES, Robert (France & Arsenal [ENG]) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA]) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA]) RONALDO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA]) SCHOLES, Paul (England & Manchester United [ENG]) THURAM, Lilian (France & Juventus [ITA]) TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA]) VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG]) VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal [ENG]) VIERI, Christian (Italy & Inter Milan [ITA]) ZANETTI, Javier (Argentina & Inter Milan [ITA]) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Real Madrid [SPA]) Podium 1° HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG]) 2° NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Juventus [ITA]) 3° ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Real Madrid [SPA]) Contenders 4° VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG]) 5° RONALDO (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA]) Honorable Mentions ABBONDANZIERI, Roberto (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG]) ADRIANO (Brazil & Parma [ITA]) AIMAR, Pablo (Argentina & Valencia [SPA]) ALEX (Brazil & Cruzeiro [BRA]) ALONSO, Xabi (Spain & Real Sociedad [SPA]) AYALA, Roberto (Argentina & Valencia [SPA]) BALLACK, Michael (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER]) BEATTIE, James (England & Southampton [ENG]) BECKHAM, David (England & Mancheter United [ENG]) CAMORANESI, Mauro (Italy & Juventus [ITA]) CAMPBELL, Sol (England & Arsenal [ENG]) CARDOZO, José Saturnino (Paraguay & Toluca [MEX]) CARVALHO, Ricardo (Portugal & Porto [POR]) CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA]) CHIVU, Cristian (Romania & Ajax [NED]) COLE, Ashley (England & Arsenal [ENG]) DE PEDRO, Javier (Spain & Real Sociedad [SPA]) DECO (Portugal & Porto [POR]) DERLEI (Brazil & Porto [POR]) DIDA (Brazil & AC Milan [ITA]) DIEGO (Brazil & Santos [BRA]) DUFF, Damien (Ireland & Blackburn Rovers [ENG]) DYER, Kieron (England & Newcastle United [ENG]) ÉLBER, Giovane (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER]) ÉMERSON (Brazil & AS Roma [ITA]) ETXEBERRIA, Joseba (Spain & Athletic Bilbao [SPA]) FERRARA, Ciro (Italy & Juventus [ITA]) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Real Madrid [SPA]) FRIEDEL, Brad (United States & Blackburn Rovers [ENG]) GALLAS, William (France & Chelsea [ENG]) GATTUSO, Gennaro (Italy & AC Milan [ITA]) GIULY, Ludovic (France & AS Monaco [FRA]) HELGUERA, Iván (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA]) INZAGHI, Filippo (Italy & AC Milan [ITA]) JOAQUÍN (Spain & Real Betis [SPA]) JUNINHO Pernambucano (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA]) KARPIN, Valeri (Russia & Real Sociedad [SPA]) KEWELL, Harry (Australia & Leeds United [ENG]) KEZMAN, Mateja (Serbia & Montenegro & PSV Eindhoven [NED]) KLUIVERT, Patrick (Netherlands & Barcelona [SPA]) KOLLER, Jan (Czech Republic & Borussia Dortmund [GER]) KOVACEVIC, Darko (Serbia & Montenegro & Real Sociedad [SPA]) KUYT, Dirk (Netherlands & Utrecht [NED]) LARSSON, Henrik (Sweden & Celtic [SCO]) LÓPEZ, Claudio (Argentina & Lazio [ITA]) LUÍS FABIANO (Brazil & Sao Paulo [BRA]) MAHDAVIKIA, Mehdi (Iran & Hamburg [GER]) NONDA, Shabani (DR Congo & AS Monaco [FRA]) OKOCHA, Augustine (Nigeria & Bolton Wanderers [ENG]) OWEN, Michael (England & Liverpool [ENG]) PAULETA (Portugal & Girondins de Bordeaux [FRA]) PIRLO, Andrea (Italy & AC Milan [ITA]) PIZARRO, David (Chile & Udinese [ITA]) PUYOL, Carles (Spain & Barcelona [SPA]) RECOBA, Álvaro (Uruguay & Inter Milan [ITA]) ROBINHO (Brazil & Santos [BRA]) RONALDINHO (Brazil & Paris Saint-Germain [FRA]) RUI COSTA (Portugal & AC Milan [ITA]) SALGADO, Míchel (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA]) SEEDORF, Clarence (Netherlands & AC Milan [ITA]) SHEARER, Alan (England & Newcastle United [ENG]) STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & Lazio [ITA]) STANKOVIC, Dejan (Serbia & Montenegro & Lazio [ITA]) TÉVEZ, Carlos (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG]) TOLDO, Francesco (Italy & Inter Milan [ITA]) VAN BUYTEN, Daniel (Belgium & Olympique de Marseille [FRA]) VAN DER VAART, Rafael (Netherlands & Ajax [NED]) VIDUKA, Mark (Australia & Leeds United [ENG]) WESTERVELD, Sander (Netherlands & Real Sociedad [SPA]) ZAMBROTTA, Gianluca (Italy & Juventus [ITA]) ZOLA, Gianfranco (Italy & Chelsea [ENG]) All Tops 23 Honorable Mentions (1920-1984) Honorable Mentions (1985- )
Several of the players in the Buchan polls were playing outside the First Division. 1962-63: Matthews, Tambling. Second Division. 1963-64: Hurley, Lawton. Second Division. 1964-65: Anderson. Second Division. 1965-66: Atyeo. Second Division. Hector. Fourth Division! 1966-67: Marsh. Third Division. 1967-68: Marsh. Second Division. 1968-69: Mackay. Second Division.
Marca mentions these players several times during this period as the best in the English league; I would go so far as to say that praise to Tottenham's midline took up many more lines than praise to Greaves or Bobby Charlton. Regarding Haynes, I think I remember that there is talk, at times, of the great figure of English football, although, on occasion I read that he was sinful of being irregular in his performances. Everything that can serve as interesting information in this forum I try to share with you. The latter, coincidentally, I "discovered" very few days before PDG1978 found this relevant information about some privileged places in the FWA election and I thought it would be interesting to put it here. Unfortunately, at the moment, I have not found more information about it, neither in this year nor in any other of the details of these votes or of the weekly "The People". Of course, if I find new information do not doubt that it will be shared in this forum.
I see Zidane on the podium (typically)but i don't see nihat kavechi who beat him,R9 and figo to the Don ballon foreign best player award in 2002/03 Not only did kavechi score as many la liga goals as R9 he also assisted more than him whilst playing on a team that scored 15 less la liga goals Very Arguably kavechi was contributing more on the creative side also as he was never really an out and out CF https://fbref.com/en/players/57feb553/Ronaldo https://fbref.com/en/players/41e774bd/all_comps/Nihat-Kahveci-Stats---All-Competitions https://www.squawka.com/en/real-sociedad-real-madrid-galacticos-la-liga/
Actually, I thought of Nihat as a possible contender and I think he could arguably be considered the best player in La Liga 2002-03 (over Zidane, Ronaldo, Makaay or his teammate Xabi Alonso), but in general terms I think it would be against him that his activity was reduced only to the local league and he had no presence in any continental competition, compared to the first 5 mentioned (Henry, Nedved, Zidane, van Nistelrooy and Ronaldo) who positively added in the international stage. He also didn't manage to add in the Copa del Rey because Real Sociedad was very quickly eliminated by Real Zaragoza and he also had an imperceptible year with Turkey (he barely played a handful of matches without major success and was an unused substitute during the entire Confederations Cup in France).
1949-1950: It was always on the cards, and this season turns out to be by far the busiest yet. We'll see if it's a precursor for the entirety of the 50s or just a one off. A lot of standouts ended up getting cut, but I did manage to include all the mandatory ones. I think the events at the World Cup are pretty common knowledge to everybody, so I won't dwell too much on that. Just some general impressions. Starting with the finalists, Brazil are a weird team, because their greatness is so closely tied to the inside trio. They're mentioned as a great team and all that, but the other players are rarely singled out. Sort of like an improved version of the 30s team, actually. Also, the team seems to be much less effective when even one of the three are missing. No mention of any Barbosa blunders from the reports I read. It really does seem like a case Brazuca mass psychosis. Uruguay's top four, all included on my list, weren't a surprise, but the order was. Ghiggia and Varela come off as the two standouts, with Schiaffino surprisingly pretty clearly behind them. Looks like he'll be peaking later than anticipated. Ghiggia is a lot more highly-rated than I expected, with the Spanish joining the Brazilians in calling him the player of the tournament. Of the semi-finalists, Spain have their own mildly disappointing player, and it's Zarra. Don't get me wrong, he easily makes the 23, but I was really expecting prime Zarra to be battling for a TotS/podium spot, but that was never on the cards. Basora comes off more as the top guy, with Gainza up there, too. Ramallets appears on the scene as the new Zamora. Sweden have their own top goalie in Svensson, with Skoglund emerging to skyrocket to the top. His club career so far is very low profile, though, so I kept him out for now. Of the other contenders, England's disappointing trajectory is by now well-known. They're still a strong-side, but a shadow of the one from a couple of years ago. Things aren't helped by the selections. The Scots are gleefully crossing fingers England will continue keeping Matthews and Mannion out of the side. Finney is their best player, even if one reporter is calling him finnicky (Finneycky?) and unprofitable. He has "all the alleged faults of Matthews and none of his proven genius". Wright is the other standout, and goalie Williams surprisingly highly-rated. Another surprise is the low form of Franklin. Early in the season there are already calls to drop him. Be careful what you wish for, because it'll take England years to replace him. Franklin will end up being lionized by his absence, but from what I read I never got the impression of him as "England's greatest ever centre-back" (Cullis for one came off a lot more impressive). Yugoslavia have quietly snuck up in the rankings into genuine contenders, with a side built around the "magic circle" (it sounds impressive, but the term is actually quite commonly used in this time) of Cajkovski, Djajic, Bobek and Mitic. As for Italy, last year it looked like they had survived the Superga surprisingly well, building a good team around the likes of Parola, Lorenzi, Amadei and Carapellese. This year that side seems to disintegrate into injuries and tinkering, though. Elsewhere in Europe, the top striker on the continent now comes from... Belgium! Better than Zarra, superior to Nordahl, here comes Jef Mermans! Scotland, meanwhile, have "the most dangerous winger in football" in Liddell. That's based on his club achievements, though, he doesn't do much internationally. Portugal have two standouts in Travassos and Xico. Class comparison: In the second leg qualifier against Spain, the press are reporting the other players wouldn't be good enough for the Spanish first division. The third top guy is missing from that game, though. It's right-back Virgilio Mendes, another forgotten gem (by Portuguese standards). Saving the best for (almost) last. Europe's finest didn't enter the World Cup, but the Golden Team is really starting to glitter in the old world. A highlight for the Hungarians was a 5-0 demolishing of a supposedly strong Swedish side that could have been 10-0 according to the Swedes. Puskas was probably the best player on the pitch in all their games, with Kocsis and Bozsik now firm choices for inclusion, too. The Swedes say this team is even better than the last standard-bearer, which was Dynamo Moscow. What's the point of playing a World Cup if Hungary aren't playing, they ask. Being in the unenviable spot of getting smashed by the two top sides around in one season, I was really looking forward to the Swedes making a Brazil-Hungary comparison. Unfortunately they chickened out on me. They just file both into the "completely unplayable" category. Of course Brazil did end up getting played and defeated, and so did the Hungarians. They get taken out by an Austrian side that now seems to have gotten even their attack in order. Decker is the main architect of the Hungary defeat, with Hanappi generally the second best, Ocwirk and Zeman also being key players. Nice win, it'll take years before anyone can replicate the feat. Before I move onto the nominees, I still have to tackle the issue of all the world-class players without NT-appearances. Argentina have gone into hiding, so in a very busy year I didn't have room for any of them. The "magical" Ben Barek from Spain is included, though. Serie A is now chock full of superstars, too, so to get a view of what was going on Italy, I checked out some of the reports for the top matches. There doesn't seem to be any difference between Milan's Swedes. In every report it just seems to mention the Gre-No-Li dominating. Can they even tell these guys apart? Weirdly, champions Juventus don't seem to have nearly the same level of standout performers. I included Hansen as the top-scorer, though. Funny related anecdote: After the Italy-Sweden WC match, a Swedish journo drops by to ask questions of the Italian team manager: "Which ones are you going to take this time?" (The correct answer would be "just about all of them"). Ademir (Brazil) Basora, Estanislao (Spain) Ben Barek, Larbi (Morocco/France) Bobek, Stjepan (Yugoslavia) Cajkovski, Zlatko (Yugoslavia) Decker, Karl (Austria) Finney, Tom (England) Gainza, Agustin (Spain) Ghiggia, Alcides (Uruguay) Gren, Gunnar (Sweden) Hansen, John (Denmark) Jair (Brazil) Kocsis, Sandor (Hungary) Liedholm, Nils (Sweden) Mermans, Jef (Belgium) Mitic, Rajko (Yugoslavia) Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) Puskas, Ferenc (Hungary) Rodriguez Andrade, Victor (Uruguay) Schiaffino, Juan (Uruguay) Varela, Obdulio (Uruguay) Zarra, Telmo (Spain) Zizinho (Brazil) TotS: Svensson Parola Nilsson Cajkovski Varela Andrade Ghiggia Zizinho Ademir Jair Puskas Svensson wins the goalie spot over Ramallets due to having more games under his belt. Zeman and Maspoli were other contenders. There's still absolutely nothing going on in terms of defenders, so I had to tinker with the formation again. After supposedly dropping it, 2-3-5 is back again, only with CH Parola among the fullbacks. With so many good halves now available, it seemed more fair this way. Good ol' Carey and Nilsson are pretty much the only ones I can think of from the defenders. Attack pretty much picks itself, with an inside-trio that deserves to be picked en bloc joined by one WC MVP and one perpetual MotM. Basora and Mermans were on standby. Top 3: 1. Ademir 2. Puskas 3. Varela Firstly, it's a bit harsh to knock MVP Ghiggia off the podium, but from the actual reports I read, Varela really came off as even more impressive. Like Puskas, he was in complete beast mode, standing out in every single match report I checked, which included pre-WC ones. I also feel the three nominees have established a bigger CV than newcomer Ghiggia so far. Puskas loses out on top spot due to losing out on the WC, but I have a hunch he'll make up for it later. The Brazilian trio were so magical I figured the top spot had to go to one of them, and top-scorer Ademir came off as the best of them both this season and in terms of cumulative achievement. Think of it as a consolation prize. Tactics school: -Austria and Sweden are both using a tactic of dropping a forward into the half-line (but let's pretend Hidegkuti or whoever was the first to use it). For Austria it's Stojaspal and for Sweden Mona-Lisa Andersson, who's supposed to be a half anyway. So in terms of numbers Sweden would be playing 3-3-4 and Austria... 2-4-4? Links section (hopefully @ManiacButcher or anyone can give a summary on the details): A listing of the best WC players. Three links that discuss the best Argentinian players: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3
Rodríguez Andrade has been described a defensive minded Halfback in WC 1950, so he could added to Defense.
Tottenham were the one English club who consistently rejected the long-ball game in favour of more possession-based tactics. It was no coincidence that they were the only English team to win a European trophy during the first nine years of competition.
I believe this is correct, with their 'push-and-run' philosophy still to the fore in their playing style, and in any case I think I'm right in saying Peter that you are a bit older than me if I remember correctly so might have more of a 'real-time' idea, at least from anecdotes if not memories of games? I think Nottingham Forest did fall into the same sort of category back then already too if I understand correctly, but less consistently (and at the end of the period when they were runners-up to Manchester United their game had evolved into a slightly more direct or mixed one I think probably anyway). Their biggest success with a 'push-and-run' or pure passing kind of style was the 1959 FA Cup win I think. Man United themselves are probably borderline though, and weren't exactly long-ball merchants. Plenty of quality football on the floor was played through their midfield I'm sure, probably from the Busby Babes team and certainly it can be seen in the later teams such as multiple times vs Benfica (maybe the ball did go forwards in the air at times more than it would with Tottenham though I guess indeed still). Liverpool, West Ham and others played some good football I'd think. Everton, Man City in more of a 'mixed' style maybe, but with quality football incorporated? But even clubs seen as entertaining, and with talented players, did probably play balls forwards in the air quite a bit, like Chelsea seemingly. Interestingly, later Tottenham, with arguably as entertaining a team (I can't really make a good comparison because I didn't see a lot of 50s/60s Tottenham although for example the highlights vs Man Utd at home in 65/66 are great and I did see a few other clips from back when Blanchflower was playing to an extent), did get some success with longer balls, even if they played some intricate football too, with Ardiles incorporated into midfield. Some of Hoddle's most famous goals even come from knock-downs. Hoddle himself being such a good long passer did probably lead to an increase in pass length too, but of course a pass (directed deliberately into a team-mates path) is still a pass, not a random 'long ball'. I might claim that mid 80s to mid 90s it was Forest who were what Tottenham had been in the 50s/60s indeed, in terms of overall being the team who played the ball on the grass the most. Liverpool might dispute it though, and of course had more success including doing the double themselves like Tottenham had done back in 1960/61.
Charlton earned a fair bit of criticism from World Soccer in the early 60s. He was considered inconsistent and a bit of an unfulfilled talent. VRA didn't emerge until about 1950, though. Before that, he was playing for a modest Uruguayan club and was a sub for even Uruguayan B-sides.
Yes, he did blow hot and cold at this stage of his career. Referring back to Titanlux's post, Greaves was a great goalscorer pure and simple. If he didn't score, he didn't contribute anything. Like Bloomer many years before. During his brief spell at AC Milan Greaves was asked to run around a bit more and get in the odd tackle. His response was to ask for a transfer back to England, despite being offered more money to stay. Haynes was the best passer of the ball in the country, but was not playing in a strong team.
I didn't know about Forest in the 1950s. As a supporter you will probably know more. By the time of Liverpool's and Forest's European Cup wins in the late 1970s there was more short passing, although the main instruction from Clough and Taylor seemed to be "Give it to Robertson." Jonathan Wilson on the Busby Babes: "Even those British teams who enjoyed some success in the early European Cup tended simply to prosper not through innovation but because they were very good at applying the old model...The Manchester United of Bobby Charlton, Dennis Viollet and Duncan Edwards, for all their youth and vibrancy, were a side rooted in the W-M...Busby's United may have been fluid in British terms, and their brilliance is not in doubt, but they were still orthodox by European standards." Geoffrey Green wrote about "a combination of short and long passes discarding a static conventional forward shape."
One observation on seeing a bit of Tottenham with Blanchflower I remember though was that he did play a few good medium range somewhat lofted passes at least, so he and the team weren't restricting themselves to 10 yard passes maximum for 90% of the time necessarily (and maybe it was less pure 'push and run' compared to before even but I'm not sure and the basic approach did seem to survive later into the 60s). Greaves on the ball was capable of being a skilful and useful good team player in terms of passing and moving I think (from seeing some of that 1965 game vs United, or the 1963 game vs the Rest of the World for England), but I can see that his focus was mainly on attacking and specifically scoring goals. Another thing he apparently didn't like about Italian football was that that Milan team he played in wasn't attacking enough for his liking (Altafini was there too wasn't he, but I've seen or heard him referencing sometimes just Rivera being in support of him and otherwise the team being quite defensive).
I mixed the two threads up. I guess my TotS is playing the Uruguayan method. As long as there are enough defensive players there for the team to not be ridiculously top-heavy.
1950-1951: Ho boy, what a season! I noticed there was already some discussion about this one, but wide open doesn't even begin to describe it. But I'm getting ahead of myself. In terms of internationals, this season was a fairly uneventful one, with not much going on in terms of great teams. I think the talent drain to club level is already starting to show. For example, a team like Scotland has a pretty good record this season, but in the reports they get blasted as often as not. Their Iron Curtain -based defence is solid, but there's not much going on in terms of attacking excitement. Steel has a couple of MotM moments, but even he's considered a shadow of his former self. While on the subject of shadows of their former selves, the big game this season is the one between England and Argentina. It's dubbed the game of the century (of course), but the game that came half a decade too late might be more appropriate. It wasn't a bad game or anything, but it's pretty shocking to see how far the two teams have slipped from their peak. The English talent drain is pretty palpable. They keep introducing a bunch of 30-yo debutantes to hang around for a cap or two, and you can just feel how empty the tank is now. The top striker in Britain is now Trevor Ford of Wales. Finney is England's one true top guy, and even he's dropped at one point (though it's for tactical reasons. He's been criticized as over-elaborate). He makes a comeback with some top-performances, though. The Scottish report says "I have not seen a better individual display from any player on an international field." Things aren't any better for Argentina. Their MotM against England is goalkeeper Rugilo, hailed now as the best in the world but gone by next year. Interesting aside: Pescia and Loustau stand out for playing without shin pads and socks. A Dutch reporter says the post-Superga Italy that visited Britain in 1949 was better than this Argentina. Not only that, but it's mentioned even the Irish dominated them for most of the game. This is good news for me, because it means I don't have to consider any Argies in seasons where they don't have any internationals. In terms of tactics, they're a hard team to crack, defending with seven or eight men. Continental teams do that, too, but the English don't. Probably explains what's going to happen a couple of years from now. The rut extends to the continent. Though the results are still good, Italy are now slipping into their post-Superga slump. There are already complaints about how all the best players in the league are foreigners. Their top guy is probably Lorenzi, but he gets dropped due to having a fear of flying. Can't blame the guy, now can you? After one of the games, Italy get a surprise visit... by Sandro Mazzola, already a major celebrity who seems to appear in the papers as often as the players. It's pretty amazing things turned out for him the way they did. After a peak of a couple of years, Spain are back to being Spain. It's confirmed the players don't bring their club form to NT-level. This often extends even to the big three of Zarra, Basora and Gainza. Zarra reminds me of an improved Langara. Highly-rated as one of the best strikers around, scoring a ton of goals, but the reports are still often critical of him. Continental Europe has about one team whose profile actually increases this year, and it's Yugoslavia. Them being Yugoslavia, they're inconistant as hell, but they still have a bunch of players that are considered some of the best around. The Cajkovski, Djajic, Mitic, Bobek core is now joined by a top goalkeeper in Beara. Previous goalkeeper Mrkusic was another goalie notable for the way he moved outside the box, BTW. Austria is the one team that has the results to match the talent. Ocwirk is actually disappointing more often than not, but Zeman, Happel and Hanappi form a strong core. They're joined by a top new forward in Theodor Wagner. Elsewhere in Europe, the best CF in Europe is still Mermans. He's not the only Belgian class player, either. They also have goalkeeper Bogaerts, described as the "Belgian Rugilo". This is more than adept, as neither are heard from again. Of the other smaller countries, Switzerland have their best player in Bickel, described by the Spanish as being similar to Kubala. Interesting comparison, taking into account Kubala hasn't emerged in Spain yet. Guess he was playing in unofficial competitions? Juventus haven't managed to scoop up all the great Danes. Knut Lundberg is there to run the show against Austria, being described as on par with the best Austrians. With things being as they are on the international front, the door is wide open for club stars. The Italian big three are well-represented, and joined again by Ben Barek. The best player in Colombia was, would you believe it, Di Stefano. I didn't find any conclusive Brazilian rankings, except it seemed like Jair had fallen to #2 in Sao Paulo. Ademir was top scorer in Rio and is the only one of the big three to keep his spot for next year, so I'll go with him. Ademir (Brazil) Basora, Estanislao (Spain) Beara, Vladimir (Yugoslavia) Ben Barek, Larbi (Morocco/France) Bobek, Stjepan (Yugoslavia) Cajkovski, Zlatko (Yugoslavia) Di Stefano, Alfredo (Argentina) Finney, Tom (England) Gren, Gunnar (Sweden) Hanappi, Gerhard (Austria) Hansen, John (Denmark) Liedholm, Nils (Sweden) Mermans, Jef (Belgium) Mitic, Rajko (Yugoslavia) Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) Nyers, Istvan (Hungary) Praest, Karl Aage (Denmark) Puskas, Ferenc (Hungary) Wagner, Theodor (Austria) Wilkes, Faas (Netherlands) Young, George (Scotland) Zarra, Telmo (Spain) Zeman, Walter (Austria) As I mentioned above, deciding the honors was tougher than ever. Luckily, I managed to find one great source that ranked the best players around this time (see also bottom of post). It's by Julius Ukrainczyk, a journalist who had seen more than 100 games live. As someone who has gone through more than 100 match reports live, I wholeheartedly agree with the CDS/France Football corrections. The results this year were pretty mind-blowing to me, so it was nice to see some confirmation I was on the right track. And also to see how high the Serie A stars were ranked even on a continental scale. I deliberately didn't mention Hungary until now, because that link offers a good view of their status this season. It was mentioned in this thread how they have a pretty low international profile this season. With the cold war on one of it's colder stages, the link offers a good view on how difficult it would have been to get a good understanding of teams lurking behind the iron curtain. I followed the path set by that ranking and included Puskas based on all-around rep (9 goals in 4 internationals helps, too). TotS: Zeman Young Horvat Happel; Cajkovski Hanappi; Mermans Gren Nordahl Zarra Bobek There finally seems to be some depth in the FB department, with Ramsey and Marche competing for spots. Ironically, while FBs increase their profile, things are now quiet on the centre-half spot. I settled on Horvat, whose performances increased steadily throughout the season. By summertime he was "making no mistakes". The two wing-halves had a strong claim, but there wasn't much behind them. For the forward-line I combined my own perceptions with the "official" list. Wilkes, Mitic and Finney made it to the bench. Liedholm's profile is increasing, but he still comes off as clearly #3 of the Gre-No-Li line. Gren actually came off the best from my Serie A research, but I eventually went with the following top 3: 1. Nordahl 2. Mermans 3. Gren Nordahl wins it due to his excellent numbers, highest ranking in the linked list, and having the highest modern rep out of the three.
Journalist Willy Meisl (Hugo's brother) chose his WC 1950 Ideal Team: Livingstone - Augusto, Horvat - Bauer, K.Nordhal (WM), S.Andersson - Ghiggia, Zizinho, Ademir, Mitic, Finney, Jornal dos Sport (writer) corrected previous team according writer's opinion: Williams - Augusto, Horvat - Bauer, K.Nordhal (WM), O.Varela - Ghiggia, Zizinho, Ademir, Schiaffino, Finney, Also, JdS chose the Ideal XI from both continents according WC 1950 SA: Máspoli - Augusto, M.Gonzalez - Bauer, Varela, Andrade - Ghiggia, Zizinho, Ademir, Schiaffino, G.Diaz, Europe: Williams - Horvat, Aston - Wright, K.Nordhal (WM), S.Andersson - Basora, Mitic, Zarra, Panizo, Finney,
About Argentina's players, JdS show some interview with Stábile (Argentine trainer). Stabile chose a prelist of 33 players at the beginning of 1949. GK: Cozzi, Rugilo, Ogando. (Carrizo wasn't capped due to problems). DF: Marante, Allegri, Basso, Violini, Colman, Sobrero. (one of them is a FB marking #9, and the other marking a WG, in the argentinian way of play WM) RH: Garceron, Yacono, Sosa (they called withdrawn halfbacks) CH: Perucca, Arcos, Rossi (in argentine WM, still a creative half) LH: Pescia, Ramos, Gutierrez (defensive minded half in argentine WM) RW: Boye, Cervino, Salvini IR: Mendez, Moreno, Santos CF: Di Stefano, Pontoni, Bravo IL: Martino, Simes, Labruna LW: Loustau, Sued, Pelegrina
1951-1952: The surprises keep coming in. Wait'll you hear all the stuff I read about. For the second year in a row things are pretty quiet on the international front. There were several players impressing here or there, but not that many obvious choices. I kept bouncing players around quite a bit. In Europe, a lot of the (supposed) traditional powers are well into their 50s lull now. Italy and Spain are both doing even worse than last year, and England's lack of star talent is probably summed up by the fact they tried out Billy Wright as an inside-forward at one point. That said, they do still have a number of players impressing, though it's mostly in defensive positions. Wright and Dickinson as halves and Ramsey in defence. Finney is the big attacking star. In fact, it's said (by the Austrians, I think) the only better one can be found in Hungary (who could it be?). I'm a bit unsure of Lofthouse, but decided to include him based on his famous exploits against Austria. Speaking of Austria, after a surprise (yes) loss to Germany, they decide to adopt a 4-2-4 tactic Rapid had brought from Brazil as a souvenir. This leads to an 8-1 win over Belgium and the team being hailed as the best in Europe. Interesting, because a lot of their other results aren't that great. Ocwirk gets over his last season to play his best games yet, most notably against England. A Scottish reporter described him as "the best all-around footballer I've ever seen". Ocwirk seems to trail off a bit in the spring, though. Stojaspal came off as the second best guy in the team. Belgium are a weird team. With the number of players who keep impressing, you'd think they'd be able to do better. Top dog Mermans is still occasionally described as the top striker around, but his performances aren't quite as impressive as they've been. The new top inside-forward duo in Europe is the first big surprise. It's... Knud Lundberg and Poul Rasmussen of Denmark! This is according to the Swedes, at least. But wait, that's not all. Finland of all countries is now developing top talent, too. Aulis Rytkönen is a player of the "best world class". As if that didn't pique my curiosity enough, striker Nils Rikberg is considered absolute top class, too. If Hasse Jeppson was worth 250 000 kroner, than Rikberg is surely worth double that amount, they say. The pair do end up becoming the first two Finnish pros ever, but considering Rikberg didn't exactly set France burning, I'm starting to put the Swedish player analysis into doubt. My doubts are exacerbated when the Olympics come along. Going by the Swedish, it seems like Raynor has struck gold again, building another great side out of Göstas (Lindh, Löfgren, Sandberg). However, if you believe the Dutch, and they know a thing or two about bad sides, this Sweden is a clear one step below even the likes of Romania and Bulgaria. A good reminded to take all the reports with a big grain of salt. Speaking of the Olympics, they bring about the two legitimately impressive sides this season, and it's of course the two finalists. Paradoxically, Hungary have the better and more favored side, but Yugoslavia come off as having the better individual talent. Hungary have the two clear shining stars in Puskas and Kocsis, but the others (Grosics, Czibor, Palotas, Bozsik, Lorant) all come off more as good borderline cases rather than absolute greats. Yugoslavia, on the other hand, are now brimming with talent, as the likes of Zebec, Vukas and Boskov start getting the same kind of hype as the existing stars (I excluded Zebec only because of his suspect club numbers). Yugoslavia's crown-jewel is definitely Cajkovski, described as "superhuman" and a "genius" on par with Puskas and Kocsis. A nominal RH, in one game he spends most of his time on the pitch between IL and OL. The Olympics also bring along the long-awaited debut of the USSR at full international level. And wouldn't you know it, the team is already past it, considered a mere shadow of the great Dynamo side. Bobrov is the most impressive performer, but is excluded from my list based on his low numbers at league level. Trofimov and Bashashkin are impressive in the warm-up games (as far as I can tell from my crap sources), but don't show much in the Olympics. Netto is already showing promise. At club level, things seemed more quiet on the Serie A front this time around. Still, with the internationals not producing any more obvious choices, I went with the usual crop of stars. Praest came off as the best in the big games, but Nyers is ahead of him in the CDS-rankings. Nordahl was struggling for form in the fall, I believe, which explains his relatively poor ranking. I figure he still did enough to make it in, though. I didn't delve too much into La Liga, just enough to confirm Kubala as Barca's top guy. In South America things are pretty quiet, as well. The Brazil side that went to the Pan-American games came off as an experimental one. The likes of Didi and Julinho didn't stick out yet, and the top guy seemed to be Baltazar, so I didn't feel compelled to include anybody. Uruguay, likewise, didn't have anyone standing out. The players closest to making it from the tournament was Peru's Valeriano Lopez. From South America's clubs I picked the two big names in ADS and Walter Gomez. They both toured Europe this season, too, so I figure that would have increased their profile. From the (not so great) reports I read, Gomez didn't stand out that much, but ADS is hailed as one of the best players anywhere. Rossi is also a strong possibility, but I felt iffy about including a centre-half without an international profile. Beara, Vladimir (Yugoslavia) Bobek, Stjepan (Yugoslavia) Cajkovski, Zlatko (Yugoslavia) Di Stefano, Alfredo (Argentina) Finney, Tom (England) Gomez, Walter (Uruguay) Gren, Gunnar (Sweden) Hansen, John (Denmark) Kocsis, Sandor (Hungary) Kubala, Laszlo (Hungary) Liedholm, Nils (Sweden) Lofthouse, Nat (England) Lundberg, Knut (Denmark) Mermans, Jef (Belgium) Mitic, Rajko (Yugoslavia) Nordahl, Gunnar (Sweden) Nyers, Istvan (Hungary) Ocwirk, Ernst (Austria) Praest, Karl Aage (Denmark) Puskas, Ferenc (Hungary) Stojaspal, Ernst (Austria) Vukas, Bernard (Yugoslavia) Wright, Billy (England) TotS: Beara Ramsey Horvat; Wright Ocwirk Cajkovski; Finney Kocsis Kubala Puskas Bobek With not a lot of standout defenders around, I'm mucking with my system again. This time a 2-3-5 with centre-half Horvat in the defence. If someone were to cry foul and force me to stick to my promised WM-formation, I would swap Wright for Happel. ADS, Nyers and Praest were the closest to making it in to the forward-line. Top 3: 1. Puskas 2. Kocsis 3. Cajkovski Hopefully by this time the top 3 don't need any more explanation. The winner surprises nobody. Ocwirk and Finney just miss out. Notes: Tactics: I've never quite figured out how the Swiss bolt works. Like which one of the FBs is the one that works as the proto-libero? Now an explanation is offered. It's either, depending on the run of the game. Transfer rumors: Botafogo want Mexico's Carbajal, but Carbajal doesn't want Botafogo. Playing level comparison: The USA team arrives in Scotland with great confidence after their Brazil-heroics. The Scots halfass it but walk their way into a 6-0 win. They figure the best US players, Bahr and Souza, would be good enough for modest Scottish first division sides. Spain, likewise, walk over a terrible Irish side with the same numbers. The Irish are judged to be Spanish 2nd division level. Different strokes for different folks: The Italy-England 1-1 tie is described by the English as one of the worst internationals of all time. The Italians loved it, though, describing it as one of the most exciting games in a long while. Looks like they've already developed their refined taste. The more things change: Old timers are complaining how the WM killed football as a spectator game. If you haven't yet had your share of interesting results, here's a list of the best players from an Austrian POV. Boniperti and Walter are interesting choices, because they haven't stood out that much in the reports I've read. Boniperti especially has done nothing for Italy, and his CDS scores aren't great, either. I'm guessing maybe he's included based on pure ability rather than performances.
This season just like others I'm a bit dissapointed, because matches for Official Tournament were taken with the same or less importance than friendlies. Even if the Panamerican Championship is considered a friendly tournament, I think its status is higher than a simple game between 2 NTs. The "experimental brazilian" side is in fact a combination between WCs 1950 & 54 sides, and virtually the same that played CA 1953. The same can be said about the Uruguayan team. Also Perú and Chile (and Mexico) sent its A-teams. That's a tournament with one of the best NTs at that time, the current WC champion and 2 teams arguably among top-15 sides. For comparison, the best tournament played this season, Olympic Games 1952, was played for B/C sides for almost each country, excepting: * Hungary -------- comparable to Brazil * Yugoslavia ----- comparable to Uruguay * USSR, Sweden and Denmark ---- comparable to Peru and Chile Italy, Austria, Brazil, Great Britain, France & Chile sent its C-teams. But, none of the players from the SA countries playing in the 2nd best tournament of hte year makes it to the list. I understand the cautious approach, but some lists, looks unbalanced for the real strenght of countries in its respective years.
I would echo the sentiment of the strength of the PAC in 52. This has more A squads than any other SAC in the 1950s. This is the only time Uruguay and Brazil go head to head in in a tournament outside the 1950 WC with a squads. Also interested that Bozsik seems to be lagging behind the other eastern/central European halves of the time.
Taking the period 1920-49, Tom and Ariaga include roughly the same number of South Americans in their Top 23s. For the first three years of the 1950s Tom has 25 and Ariaga 11, seven of whom appear in the World Cup season of 1949-50.
In regular seasons, my roughly estimation would be +/- 7 SA players by year (closer to Tom) Edit: I would not underestimate 1950s SAC, maybe in other decades.
Vaguely on topic, I noticed some interesting views about 1950 World Cup teams compared to 1954 ones, attributed to Schiaffino (Uruguay getting better, along with England, and advancements from European teams like Hungary and Germany in his view, while Brazil had been better in 1950, despite the likes of Julinho and Didi among the youngsters he refers to I suppose).... ""The 1954 championship was different from what we played in Brazil in 1950. First, differently from that one, this one had a larger number of participants (...). This resulted in the teams' preparation being much better. ( ...) The war had already ended a few years ago and the nations were able to dedicate themselves in a better way to the preparation of their athletes. Hungary started the different football cycle. Germany started to recover and England was better than in 1950. Upon arriving in Switzerland , it was already noticed that everything was going to be more difficult and harder than in Maracanã. We just started to see the teams, we were surprised by the great Hungarian football and the strength of the German team. And this surprise was logical. Our football had no contacts and there was no television as it is today, to avoid unknowns. Then, we appreciate a better technique and greater dynamics in these mentioned teams. On the contrary, I found Brazil diminished. Apart from the tactical aspects and their natural physical progress, I understand that human potential was lacking. Individually considered, it was not constituted by the phenomena of 1950. A few holders of that tournament, some others who had been reserves and other young players made it not that machine. The Uruguay, for its part, taking into account the four years that have elapsed, with natural demands, it has significantly improved its level. I could say that he set the tone with the demands that the tournament was going to demand (...). Despite not getting the title, our representation left an improbable impression. Even today we remember our confrontation against Hungary and talk about it more than the final itself . Personally, I experienced this tournament under very special circumstances. When we arrived in Switzerland, I already had the pass for Milanand there was only the completion of the tournament to be a player of that institution. But, during the dispute, I never thought of anything other than getting the title. (...) Despite the presence of the Italian leaders, of the exams that I was submitted by the Milanese doctors, I only thought about playing. As I was 28 years old, I took things very seriously. (...) The fall against Hungary, like all defeats, affected me. But on second thought, after the game, it comforted me a little to be defeated by a great team" https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...t/Juan_Alberto_Schiaffino&prev=search&pto=aue
I generally don't practice any sort of nationality quotas, I just go by what's said about the individuals in the reports. Sometimes that'll lead to under- or overrepresentation. Like I said, the likes of Didi and Julinho don't stand out in particular, so putting them in this year would be revisionism. A player like Baltazar, who even by your rankings isn't anything special, seems to be ahead of them. I also don't think that much about the level of competition. It doesn't matter what powder puff tourney Hungary and Yugoslavia participated in, if their players are described as the best around. You (and Tom) think a quota of seven is fair representation? That's almost a third of the spots to pretty much three countries. One of whom can barely hang against Ireland. The likes of Chile and Paraguay, when they happen upon an European team, barely register at all. I'd put them on par with a Romania or Bulgaria rather than the USSR. I admit SA can be hard done by in this era (and others) through lack of internationals and good match reports, so I'm always open to player suggestions.