Historic World Wide Balon d'Or 23 player short lists

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    One candidate for left-back during the first half of the 1920s is Don McKinlay of Liverpool. During his first two seasons of captaining the club (1921-22 and 1922-23) they won the league.

    He played two matches for Scotland in 1922 before losing his place to Blair of Cardiff for the England game.

    When The Times named an all-time Liverpool XI in 1999, McKinlay was one of the substitutes.

    This week a BBC poll produced another all-time Liverpool team. Only five of the starting eleven from 1999 survive: Clemence, Hansen, Souness, Dalglish and Rush. They are joined by current players Alexander-Arnold, Robertson and van Dijk, plus Gerrard and Suarez also from this century. John Barnes completes the eleven, having been overlooked last time.

    Those from 1999 missing out twenty years later are Longworth, Byrne, Raisbeck, Liddell, Keegan and Tommy Smith. The substitutes back then were Elisha Scott, Lawrenson, Hunt, Callaghan and McKinlay.

    Keegan makes the bench this time, along with Alisson, Carragher, Xabi Alonso and Salah.

    Nine of the BBC sixteen are from the twenty-first century, which is not an accurate reflection of Liverpool's history.
     
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  2. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I generally reserve nominations for players with undisputed international careers. Scotland's defence during that time was seen as their weak point, too. McKinlay is a possibility for the second tier of my player rankings, though.

    The BBC poll is typical. More often than not "all-time" translates as "since I can remember".
     
  3. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    1932-1933:

    The big news this year is the Wunderteam is slowly starting to run out of steam. They still win most of their games, but they're not as impressive and dominant as they used to be. That said, they still have a number of players worthy of making the list. Sindelar is Sindelar (see below for more info), of course, even if after the Hungary game gleeful Hungarians say he's no Orth or Konrad.

    Besides that, Hiden is hugely impressive, and is considered to be worth "half a team". In fact, I couldn't help but notice the Wunderteam loss of form coincides with their "half a team" departing to France. Coincidence? The loss of form also coincides with Gschweidl being out due to injury. I thought about including him, too, but he wasn't as impressive when he returned. Also, I'm not sure how much of the season he missed. Another one close to making it was the returning Horvath, but he too seemed to lose form during 1933. "Horvath has not only lost much of his hair, but many of his tricks, too." Ouch!

    Of the rest, Schall was mostly good, and Nausch and Zischek did enough to make it in. Smistik was also close.

    Austria's game against England was definitely the highlight of the season, making waves all over Europe. The Dutch considered the game superior to the famous Olympic final of 1928, because the Europeans played more controlled football. Picking English players is as hard as ever due to their heavy rotation, but Jack was good in the international games he played. Bastin's stock is rising: "As usual Bastin showed that he has no superior in England."

    As mentioned above, the third powerhouse in Europe was Italy, and they had performances that could earn most of their players spots here. Monti appears for Italy and immediately impresses, Ferrari is now a key player and Schiavio is also pretty good.

    Of the other traditional powers, Hungary and Czechoslovakia continue to suffer. I'm really starting to feel bad for the Hungarians, after reading so many reports of sad and silent players in the locker room after games. Luckily things start to look up for these proud warriors in 1933.

    Hungary's key player and star is Sarosi. His reputation is already so high the Portuguese were targeting him with hacking. Sarosi blew hot and cold, but had easily enough great games to make it in. He's so important for Hungary if he's on, they win, and if he's not, they lose. His wingman Lazar was close to making it, too, and Markos was pretty good. Istvan Avar still isn't getting it done internationally. Or how does this review sound?
    "What is the difference between Istvan "Ricsi" Avar and miracle-violinist [Ruggiero] Ricci? Avar plays out of tune." Womp womp womp...

    Czechoslovakia have their hugely impressive Planicka, even though he has a tendency to "abuse the dive". The original show-off goalie. They also have a surprise-star at centre-half in Stefan Cambal. This was a player I didn't know was so highly-rated, but he's been very impressive for the second season in a row. A highlight was him completely blotting out Sindelar. Puc returns to form and did enough to make it in.

    Other players who did good for lesser teams, but who I didn't quite dare include, are Langiller for France and Pauli Jorgensen for Denmark: "the most dangerous centre-forward in Scandinavia since Poul Nielsen". Dobay looks promising for Romania. Another completely new name for me is Tom Griffiths, the star player for Wales. The French describe him as the best half in the English game.

    Spain are lamenting their current poor form and lack of quality new players. They have the veterans Zamora and Quincoces, but Regueiro is the only new top name. Despite them hammering Bulgaria 13-0, their current form is so weak I didn't include any of their players in my list.

    Things are still quiet on the South American front, but I completed the list with two River Plate players in Ferreyra and Peucelle. Ferreyra is someone I have high doubts on including due to his failure at international level. But I figure his reputation was high enough for him to earn a spot before it's revealed he doesn't deliver the goods for the NT. Sort of a South American McGrory.

    Speaking of McGrory, he's impressive against England, so I felt I could give him a nomination for a change. I'm starting to realize he's already coming to the end of his NT-career, though, so as it turns out, he never really impressed in a Scotland shirt despite a decent goal tally. The true star in the England game was McPhail, though. He's been close to making it on a couple of occasions, so I thought it was fair to finally give him a spot. In terms of numbers this was his best domestic season, too.

    Bastin, Cliff (England)
    Cambal, Stefan (Czechoslovakia)
    Ferrari, Giovanni (Italy)
    Ferreyra, Bernabe (Argentina)
    Hiden, Rudi (Austria)
    Jack, David (England)
    James, Alex (Scotland)
    Markos, Imre (Hungary)
    McGrory, Jimmy (Scotland)
    McPhail, Bob (Scotland)
    Meazza, Giuseppe (Italy)
    Monti, Luis (Argentina/Italy)
    Nausch, Walter (Austria)
    Orsi, Raimundo (Argentina/Italy)
    Peucelle, Carlos (Argentina)
    Planicka, Frantisek (Czechoslovakia)
    Puc, Antonin (Czechoslovakia)
    Rosetta, Virginio (Italy)
    Sarosi, György (Hungary)
    Schall, Anton (Austria)
    Schiavio, Angelo (Italy)
    Sindelar, Matthias (Austria)
    Zischek, Karl (Austria)


    Top 3:
    1. Sindelar
    2. Meazza
    3. Orsi

    The first two spots were pretty easy for me. The Mitropa-final was played in early September, so I figured all the achievements in that competition should count for this season. Third spot was more widely up for grabs, with James and Sarosi just missing out. Despite Arsenal winning the title this season, the individual hype for James didn't seem quite as overwhelming as last season. He's also available for Scotland again, but misses one game due to injury and in another he's not particularly outstanding, so that works against him.


    TotS:
    Hiden
    Rosetta
    Quincoces
    Monti
    Sarosi
    Cambal
    James
    Meazza
    Sindelar
    Ferrari
    Orsi


    There weren't any truly exceptional defensive performances, but there was a pretty large contingent to choose from. No one will be surprised to hear England, Italy and Austria had the most impressive defenses. England's defenders saved their face in games against the other two, and I was close to making it an all-English affair. Blenkinsop and Hapgood eat each other's caps similar to Blum and Sesta before, though. This allows Quincoces to sneak in at the left-side (over Caligaris). Quincoces was good enough against Yugoslavia to earn a header-spot in newspapers, so I figured that was enough.On the right side even the English are calling Rosetta the best full-back on the continent, so that made me decide to pick him over Goodall. Hungarian and Czech fullbacks also did pretty good.

    No outstanding right-wingers, so I'll just go with four playmaker types. Ferrari earns the fourth spot over Schall.


    Notes:

    -To those of us who are wondering why star players are sometimes missing from internationals: Hulme is missing from the Italy game most likely because it's cricket season.

    -Arsenal are the Liverpool of their time in more ways than one: "The play of Arsenal is such that it tends to bring out the best out of the player. Most of them if set to play in other surroundings would probably fare poorly. The mind behind their play is what matters chiefly, and that consists in a clever manager, and a skilful captain, James". I'm pretty confident the Arsenal players will end up proving this theory wrong, though.

     
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  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Nice review Ariaga,

    Interesting the comparison Bernabe vs McGrory. But it must be noted that almost none international matches were played between SA countries in the first half of the 1930s, in case of ARG v URU was due to the "climate of war" in the WC final, that stopped the matches between them at all levels.

    In my eyes, it's clear the argentine league in this time had not the level that reached in the late 1930, for 2 main reasons: a) golden generation that appears close to the 1940s, b) the outflow of stars after 1928-1930 tournaments, in unprecedented numbers (at least for SA).
     
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  5. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    The comparison is a bit harsh on McGrory, because he at least had a good scoring rate. 0 goals in 4 games is a terrible return for a striker, no matter which way one looks at it.
     
  6. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    1933-1934:

    Top 3:
    1. Orsi
    2. Monti
    3. Sindelar

    Odd season. First of all, outside the World Cup there weren't many players who were consistently impressive. Once again there was a large number of players who made big impressions in a single match, but then were more anonymous in others. So it's not a surprise there is a heavy emphasis on the WC, almost to the degree of this being a WC-23.

    The oddness continues in the World Cup itself. I kept waiting and waiting for the attacking stars to emerge en force, and for some known players to finally truly assert themselves on the grand stage, but it never really happened. This is particularly true for the two finalists, who really seem to have gotten there through a team effort.

    I'm sure we've all heard the stories about how Italy won primarily due to roughness and favoritism, and the reports certainly highlight their fighting qualities over any fancy attacking moves. They were never particularly impressive, and seem to have come down from the peak of a year or two ago. So I've significantly reduced the number of Italians compared to Tom's list.

    Cris Freddi's World Cup book suggests Monti as the player of the tournament, and he certainly has a strong case for the BdO this season. However, I find it unlikely my imaginary council would vote for a violent thug as the best player in the world. Instead, my crew went for Orsi, the best player in the final. I originally thought Meazza, then realized giving the award for him would be a retroactive move, giving him a reputation that doesn't seem to quite exist yet. Orsi is the main man at this point. The other attacking players did enough to make it in nonetheless.

    For the Czechs, the reports primarily highlight defensive players. It's Planicka, then Cambal and even Zenisek before Nejedly and Puc. Cambal has been one of the biggest surprises in my studies so far. He was hailed as the best player in the semi, and the best Czech in the final. In general the Czechs didn't start impressing until the final stages. The Romanian attack had them completely back against the wall.

    The award for the worst losers in the finals are the Austrians. Their press seem livid at pretty much everything about the World Cup. The Italians were thugs who could only score from set-pieces, and the referees inept for allowing violence to go on. The tournament was unbalanced, with one half having Italy/Austria/Brazil/Spain to take each other out, while in the other half the Czechs received a free ride to the final. Lastly, they're mad at their own players, especially the attack, for bottling it against the Germans, another physical side that has "nothing to say about football". They describe the loss against Germany as having "thrown Austrian football back years". Thinking about it, they might be onto something here. The Austrians never reach the same heights again.

    Like Italy, the Wunderteam was well past their prime, even if they did smash Italy early in 1934, in a game that seems to have signaled the end for the defensive duo of Rosetta and Caligaris. Gschweidl is gone, Schall no longer the same, and Austria starts experimenting with new players like Bican and Binder. Even Sindelar seems to disappear for a while. That said, many in the team were still possibilities for my final list. Sesta was a great physical defender (their least Austrian player), Smistik and Nausch good halves, and Zischek the main hero in the first Italy game. Platzer made it in for having at least one match-winning ("Hiden level") performance, several other good ones, while also helping lead Admira to the league title and Mitropa final. Bican almost made my list, but lost form in the final stages of the WC. Their best was still Sindelar, who impressed enough for me to give him the #3 spot. I agree by this point he probably had a reputation that superseded the occasional more quiet game.

    Another player who is quickly building a similar reputation is Sarosi, easily Hungary's most important player. Markos was another player close to making it. Avar returned to form this season, then lost it again when it was WC-time. Unfortunate.

    From the other teams, Conen and Szepan, at least, had something to say about football. Kobierski was generally their third best player, if one is looking for more Germans to include. Zamora and Quincoces were Spain's heroes. Regueiro is their best attacking player, but Langara hasn't really emerged yet at international level. Dobay was the most dangerous player for Romania. What with this being the second year in a row he's impressed, I felt it was time to include him. Abegglen was the best man for Switzerland, followed by Sechehaye and Minelli. Sweden's best during this time are Kroon and Rydberg, Belgium's Voorhoof, France's probably Nicolas.

    The Dutch have a new star in Bep Bakhuys, back in Europe after spending years in the East Indies. He impressed enough to be one of the few players who made it to the list based on non-WC performances. Van Heel is a player described as "not inferior to any member of the Wunderteam". He still hasn't made it in, because either he impresses only once every season, or seems to lack recognition from the side of the opposition. Another player who is impressing is Jorgen Juve, now performing as a "destruction artist" in defence, and seems to be doing whatever he wants at Scandinavian level.

    Brazil have two players of a class "rarely seen in Europe" in Leonidas and Waldemar de Brito. Brazil in this era is one of the big mysteries to me. They actually seem to already enjoy a high reputation, and earn good results at club level, but when the NT gets together they get hammered by the Yugoslavias of the world. Reports indicate they have a big skill level, higher than f.e. Spain, but except for the two mentioned no one is singled out. My interpretation is that they have a good level of individual skill, but are maybe tactically deficient. From the other South Americans, Varallo seems the best bet for this season, with Sastre a possibility.

    I sometimes forget my international season is different from the one in Tom's list. England-Italy hasn't happened yet. England, in fact, had very disappointing results this season. Neither Bastin nor Brook impressed consistently, but I included Bastin because he now seems to be the top dog on the island. Hapgood isn't nomination-worthy yet, and in fact Cooper has been the better defender this season. For Scotland, Dally Duncan impressed in the England game.

    Abegglen, Andre (Switzerland)
    Bakhuys, Bep (Netherlands)
    Bastin, Cliff (England)
    Cambal, Stefan (Czechoslovakia)
    Conen, Edmund (Germany)
    Dobay, Stefan (Romania)
    Ferrari, Giovanni (Italy)
    Leonidas (Brazil)
    Meazza, Giuseppe (Italy)
    Monti, Luis (Argentina/Italy)
    Nejedly, Oldrich (Czechoslovakia)
    Orsi, Raimundo (Argentina/Italy)
    Planicka, Frantisek (Czechoslovakia)
    Platzer, Peter (Austria)
    Puc, Antonin (Czechoslovakia)
    Quincoces, Jacinto (Spain)
    Sarosi, György (Hungary)
    Schiavio, Angelo (Italy)
    Sindelar, Matthias (Austria)
    Szepan, Fritz (Germany)
    Varallo, Francisco (Argentina)
    Zamora, Ricardo (Spain)
    Zischek, Karl (Austria)


    TotS:
    Planicka
    Sesta
    Quincoces
    Monti
    Sarosi
    Cambal
    Puc
    Meazza
    Sindelar
    Nejedly
    Orsi

    Very tough battle for the goalkeeper spot, but eventually Planicka's higher number of top performances earned him the nod over Zamora's Italy-game peak. No absolutely obvious options for the defensive spots. I'm not completely sold on Zenisek's all-around rep being enough to earn a spot here, so I threw in two left-backs. Same happened with the wingers. This really seems to be a great era for left-wingers, with not nearly as much going on at the right side. Sarosi moved to centre-forward this season, but also played centre-half early on.


    Notes:

    -A tactical battle is going on in the continent. The more physical sides, like Germany and Spain, have adopted the WM. The Danubian school isn't impressed by this development. "W-system cannot prevail against top continental teams", say the Czechs. Elsewhere, after their game Scotland, Austria believes they have a larger number of top-class players than the former does.

    -Another new development is the rise of Nazi propaganda. The Czechs are saying German radio was spreading lies about the semi-final, claiming the Czechs won due to rough and violent play. The reports I read had a couple of microaggressions, such as mentioning the German amateur status against Czech pros, and saying the Czechs suddenly hit wonderful form after being poor earlier in the tournament. In general the reports were fair, though, and I don't consider the aforementioned to be exclusive to German reports.

    -FIFA is already tinkering with the next World Cup. There is a suggestion to host it already in 1937, with France, Belgium and the Netherlands sharing hosting duties.

    -Chile and Peru went on a tour in Europe with a combined team. This is the first time I've heard of this, and ran into a report completely by accident. Peruvian greats Villanueva and especially Valdivieso impressed in Scotland against Celtic. @msioux75, Do you know about this tour?
     
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  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #1832 msioux75, Jul 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
    It would be very interesting to see, what reports said about this !!!

    The original idea was to made an equally represented Peru-Chile combined, but in a previous tour, Colo Colo had hard loses vs peruvian clubs. So, finally businessmen formed the squad around Universitario, with some reinforcements, Valdivieso & Villanueva (from Alianza Lima, the truly dominant side of that time), a couple from Callao and 3 chileans.

    The tour had mixed results, some decent against good sides, and some really bad ones, as the day they split the team into two sides to play the same day two matches vs Real Madrid and Barcelona.

    It seems that starred in the tour: GK-Valdivieso and CFs - Villanueva and Lolo Fernandez (goalscorer of the side)


    https://footballpink.net/from-the-a...ey-to-dublin-of-the-combinado-del-pacifico-2/

    http://www.rsssf.com/tables/1933chile-perutour.html

    http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.com/search/label/Combinado del Pacifico
     
  8. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    I could only find one English language report, from the Glasgow Herald. Page 17.
    Spanish papers like El Mundo Deportivo and La Vanguardia have useful searchable databases.
    Mundo report.
    Vanguardia report.

    In general the reviews were favorable. The Czech ones I read were more mixed, with one calling them a disappointment, but another saying they weren't far away from Argentina and Uruguay in terms of class. It was also said the best players from the team would fit into any of the best European teams. Valdivieso and Villanueva are definitely the big stars, with Lolo not standing out nearly as much (no way is the rumored 48 goals right, BTW). Pacheco seems to be third best when he's playing, and Astengo also highly rated ("could fit into any top English side").

    The stats for the Czech games.
     
  9. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    1934-1935:

    This season comes off very much like a season of transition. Many regular members of this list are coming to the twilight of their careers, and even a large chunk of last season's TotS are now suddenly out of gas. Younger players such as Piola and Matthews are making their first tentative claims for inclusion.

    That was partly why this was one of the tougher seasons to figure out. A relatively quiet international season, where even the biggest names have modest performances to go with the highlights. Basically everyone mentioned here had at least one stinker at some point. The list has a heavier than usual emphasis on club performances this time.

    England have once again taken their spot as kings of the hill. The match against Italy comes off very much like a World Cup final, with a lot of coverage all over Europe. Opinion varies based on the level of Anglophilia in a given country, but it seems like England decimated Italy to a much larger degree than the scoreline suggests. As mentioned above, Bastin and Brook were the stars for England, and Hapgood is now starting to emerge as a top defender. Jack Barker has great performances at centre-half. Surprisingly, the press isn't impressed at all by Drake's brand of centre-forward play, though. Some reports say he's not of international class, and even a domestic report describes him as "not a great centre-forward". The England candy train eventually runs into a wall in the traditional Scotland game. Dally Duncan is Scotland's best player (in general) for the second season in a row.

    For Italy, Orsi and Monti are pretty much done, but Meazza, Ferrari and Guaita are keeping the flag high. Piola makes a pretty impressive debut and sophomore effort, though he too gets some of the "not really a great CF" treatment. Ceresoli is a hero against England, with a veteran British journo describing his performance as the best he's ever seen.

    In central Europe, the Wunderteam are buried once and for all. Gschweidl and Sindelar still have some good performances in the fall, but both seem to lose their spots by the time spring comes along. Zischek is hot and cold, but has some big highlights that warrants inclusion. Platzer is good in goal and Sesta great in defence. Halfbacks are decent.

    Hungary have their typical Hungarian season, the highlight being a dismantling of Austria orchestrated by Sarosi and Titkos. The Czechs are pretty weak, with only Planicka retaining his form from last season. Kostalek seems to be playing pretty unevenly, with some reports saying he's great and some saying he's awful. Nothing new there, happens a lot, except these are reports from the same match! :D

    Germany's rabbit-killing season earns them a couple of nominations in Lehner and Conen, but it's not a coincidence their good form ends as soon as they face off against their first actual good team in Spain. Lehner and Conen also run out of gas the same way the entire team does during a summer tour of Scandinavia. Interestingly, Spain seem to be considered clearly ahead of Germany in terms of technique and class. Zamora is just about done, but Quincoces is still great. Langara is still disappointing despite his goals, but interestingly his profile has clearly increased as of late. Now he's a disappointing star player instead of a disappointing random striker, so I decided to include him.

    Elsewhere in Europe, Trello Abegglen now seems to enjoy a big reputation, being described as a "perfect striker" and "superior lord of the ball". Raymond Braine returns to the NT but doesn't do much. He's included because of his Mitropa run.

    France suddenly have a decent team with talented players. How did this happen? Well, their forward line now consists of a Yugoslav (Bek), Uruguayan (Duhart), Switzer (Courtois) and Englishman (Aston). This is how you do it.


    Abegglen, Andre (Switzerland)
    Bastin, Cliff (England)
    Benitez Caceres, Delfin (Paraguay)
    Braine, Raymond (Belgium)
    Brook, Eric (England)
    Ciocca, Anibal (Uruguay)
    Conen, Edmund (Germany)
    Duncan, Dally (Scotland)
    Ferrari, Giovanni (Italy)
    Guaita, Enrique (Argentina/Italy)
    Hapgood, Eddie (England)
    Langara, Isidro (Spain)
    Lehner, Ernst (Germany)
    Meazza, Giuseppe (Italy)
    Nasazzi, Jose (Uruguay)
    Piola, Silvio (Italy)
    Quincoces, Jacinto (Spain)
    Sarosi, György (Hungary)
    Sastre, Antonio (Argentina)
    Sesta, Karl (Austria)
    Titkos, Pal (Hungary)
    Van Heel, Puck (Netherlands)
    Zischek, Karl (Austria)


    Top 3:
    1. Bastin
    2. Sarosi
    3. Brook

    Very difficult to decide the spots, and the top 3 could have gone in any order. In terms of purely NT-performances I think Brook takes the cake, but the other two seem to enjoy higher profiles and have a much better club resume. I feel the #1 spot very much has to go to an Englishman, and Bastin seems to be their biggest star. Not giving the award to Sarosi also allows me to step over the problem of whether or not to include the mid-September Mitropa final.

    TotS
    Planicka
    Nasazzi
    Hapgood
    Goldbrunner
    Barker
    Van Heel
    Bastin
    Braine
    Sarosi
    Ferrari
    Brook

    In terms of actual performances, the keeper spot would go to Ceresoli. I'm not sure if his all-around career warrants a spot, though, so I went for the more high-profile Planicka. Nasazzi and Hapgood just edge in over Sesta and Quincoces in my view.

    Hafback-line is back to being crickets since my entire line of the last few seasons is no longer there. All the halfback-lines of the big names are either playing weakly or being rotated. Barker was the only consistently good half, but I'm not sure if his all-around career warrants a spot. My doubts about Van Heel remain, but he's a big star for his own NT, at least, so that counts for something. It seems unfair to never include him after so many near misses. Goldbrunner, too, was one of the better players for his own NT. The ok-level Austrians as well as Cliff Britton were also in contention.

    The forward-line is a bit of a mess due to the much higher number of classy left-sided players. Ferrari performed better than Meazza at NT-level, and Braine's Mitropa-escapades edges him for a spot over Abegglen. Ciocca or Sastre have a good opportunity for inclusion if they impressed for their NTs. Zischek would be my pick out of pure right-wingers.

    Notes:

    -The Dutch are still very much in the Anglophile camp. After a game against the English team, they considered even the experimental English 11 to be superior to anything on the continent (including Wunderteam). At the same time, they consider several Dutch players to be on par with English pros in terms of technique. In an interesting tidbit, a veteran journo also said Male and Hapgood had surpassed the legendary full-back duo Crompton and Pennington. He also compares Van Heel to Alex James.

    -The Germans are playing with a four-striker system. I think Siffling is the player dropping deep in most games, but others play the role, too.
     
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  10. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    Myeah, it's just in 1935 (therafter Beck is not selected anymore and Duhart it's 3 times in '35, 2 in '36, 1 in '37). By the way, Aston was born of a French mother and English father. But yeah, then, more by the end of the decade, there's Giusti Jordan at CH too for example (Austria). Also Ben Barek (Morocco under French Protectorate). And others who were selected like a couple of times. During wartime too, then : Simonyi (Hungary), partner of Aston at Red Star (a great pair, OR Aston & IR Simonyi).

    As for Italy and all their Oriundi, let's not forget about Colaussi too : Colàusig, from Gradisca d'Isonzo, Austria-Hungary.
     
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  11. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Drake was a hard man, making his international debut. He was selected against Italy mainly to deal with Monti's physical excesses. Drake duly obliged, breaking the Argentine's foot with a dreadful challenge early on and effectively reducing Italy to ten men.
     
  12. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Starting the 21st century, I concluded my review of the 2000 list:

    2000

    Modifications on the previous top 23:

    > IN: Djalminha (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    > IN: Juan Román Riquelme (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])

    < OUT: Émerson (Brazil & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    < OUT: Romário (Brazil & Vasco da Gama [BRA])

    Top 23

    BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Parma [ITA])
    DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus [ITA])
    DJALMINHA (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona [SPA])
    JARDEL, Mário (Brazil & Porto [POR])
    KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    KEANE, Roy (Ireland & Manchester United [ENG])
    MENDIETA, Gaizka (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio [ITA])
    NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio [ITA])
    PHILLIPS, Kevin (England & Sunderland [ENG])
    RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid [SPA])
    RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan [ITA])
    TOLDO, Francesco (Italy & Fiorentina [ITA])
    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Lazio [ITA])
    ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus [ITA])

    Podium

    ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus [ITA])
    FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona [SPA])
    SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan [ITA])


    Contenders

    TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])

    Honorable Mentions

    ABELARDO (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    AIMAR, Pablo (Argentina & River Plate [ARG])
    ANDERSON, Sonny (Brazil & Olympique Lyonnais [FRA])
    ÁNGEL, Juan Pablo (Colombia & River Plate [ARG])
    ANGLOMA, Jocelyn (France & Valencia [SPA])
    BARTHEZ, Fabien (France & AS Monaco [FRA])
    BERMÚDEZ, Jorge (Colombia & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    BLANC, Laurent (France & Inter Milan [ITA])
    CAFU (Brazil & AS Roma [ITA])
    CANDELA, Vincent (France & AS Roma [ITA])
    CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Parma [ITA])
    CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    CATANHA (Spain & Málaga [SPA])
    COLE, Andy (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    CÓRDOBA, Óscar (Colombia & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    DE BOER, Frank (Netherlands & Barcelona [SPA])
    DESAILLY, Marcel (France & Chelsea [ENG])
    DI CANIO, Paolo (Italy & West Ham United [ENG])
    DONATO (Spain & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    EFFENBERG, Stefan (Germany & Bayern Munich [GER])
    ÉMERSON (Brazil & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    FIORE, Stefano (Italy & Udinese [ITA])
    FREY, Sébastien (France & Hellas Verona [ITA])
    GALLARDO, Marcelo (Argentina & AS Monaco [FRA])
    GERARD (Spain & Valencia [SPA])
    GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United [ENG])
    GUARDIOLA, Josep (Spain & Barcelona [SPA])
    HAGI, Gheorghe (Romania & Galatasaray [TUR])
    HASSELBAINK, Jimmy Floyd (Netherlands & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])
    HELGUERA, Iván (Spain & Real Madrid [SPA])
    HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    HYYPIÄ, Sami (Finland & Liverpool [ENG])
    JORGE COSTA (Portugal & Porto [POR])
    KEWELL, Harry (Australia & Leeds United [ENG])
    KILY GONZÁLEZ, Cristian (Argentina & Valencia [SPA])
    KLUIVERT, Patrick (Netherlands & Barcelona [SPA])
    LÓPEZ, Claudio (Argentina & Valencia [SPA])
    MAKAAY, Roy (Netherlands & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan [ITA])
    MARTYN, Nigel (England & Leeds United [ENG])
    MAURO SILVA (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    McMANAMAN, Steve (England & Real Madrid [SPA])
    MIHAJLOVIC, Sinisa (Yugoslavia & Lazio [ITA])
    MILOSEVIC, Savo (Yugoslavia & Real Zaragoza [SPA])
    MONTELLA, Vincenzo (Italy & AS Roma [ITA])
    MONTERO, Paolo (Uruguay & Juventus [ITA])
    MUNITIS, Pedro (Spain & Racing de Santander [SPA])
    NOWOTNY, Jens (Germany & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])
    NUNO GOMES (Portugal & Benfica [POR])
    PALERMO, Martín (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    PAULO SÉRGIO (Brazil & Bayern Munich [GER])
    REBROV, Serhiy (Ukraine & Dynamo Kyiv [UKR])
    RECOBA, Álvaro (Uruguay & Inter Milan [ITA])
    ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Vasco da Gama [BRA])
    RUI COSTA (Portugal & Fiorentina [ITA])
    SALVA (Spain & Racing de Santander [SPA])
    SAVIOLA, Javier (Argentina & River Plate [ARG])
    SCHOLES, Paul (England & Manchester United [ENG])
    SERNA, Mauricio (Colombia & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    SHEARER, Alan (England & Newcastle United [ENG])
    SIMEONE, Diego (Argentina & Lazio [ITA])
    SIMONE, Marco (Italy & AS Monaco [FRA])
    SORÍN, Juan Pablo (Argentina & Cruzeiro [BRA])
    STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & Manchester United [ENG])
    THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma [ITA])
    TREZEGUET, David (France & AS Monaco [FRA])
    VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal [ENG])
    YORKE, Dwight (Trinidad & Tobago & Manchester United [ENG])

    All Tops 23
    Honorable Mentions (1920-1984)
    Honorable Mentions (1985- )
     
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  13. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    1935-1936:

    Making these lists has been getting progressively harder and harder as the number of matches have increased. More and more players are making claims with some good performances, but at the same time the number of matches means teams and players slip up more, and there are less consistently great sides and players. Once again it was probably harder than ever to figure out who made the final cut for the final 23 and the top spots. I've tried to balance NT performances with club achievements, and am favoring all-around reputation over single highlights.

    The number of matches also produces interesting narratives. Take the three Danubian nations this season, for example. All their performances seem to follow approximately the same pattern. They start off with great performances in the fall, then dip and seem to lose faith, but eventually finish the season with a high.

    Czechoslovakia were probably the most consistently good of the three. They had the usual Planicka in goal, a great defence (Burgr/Ctyroky) and a great half-line. Cambal is gone, but Boucek emerged as the new impressive centre-half. The attack was generally weak. Puc had some good games but suffered from injuries, while Nejedly didn't impress for the NT. I included him based on his Mitropa run, though.

    Hungary is more impressive than they've been for ages, but even then there are the usual slip-ups. In a change of pace, Sarosi is pretty disappointing, though I've included him based on club performances and all-around rep. He's now playing as a WM-style CF, which means he's the highest man on the pitch, and is being squeezed out of games by tough marking. This sacrifice means the inside-forwards have a bigger role, and this results in Cseh and Vincze producing some great performances. Titkos also stands out.

    Austria is probably the most interesting case this season. They emerge from the post-Wunderteam depression with a bang, among other results handing Spain their first ever home defeat. The press are ready to proclaim the birth of a new Wunderteam. However, the team ends up losing all form. This progress is manifested in the person of Bican. Early on, he's being hailed as the second coming of Sindelar (Not Sarosi, though, say the Hungarians). But later Bican has some terrible performances, and looks to be even dropped from the side.

    After the Czech game the press have lost all hope. They're praying for one last rise for Sindelar, "who never produced such inferior football on his darkest day". Cometh the hour, cometh the man. In their desperation, Austria recall old-man Sindelar, who proceeds to lead the team to a historic win over England and a classic away draw against Italy. Sometimes dreams do come true.

    The change in fortunes is also reflected well in the character of Hans Mock. Early on, he's being downright mocked (couldn't resist) for his weak performances. The press are questioning what this guy is doing in the NT. But, in the England and Italy games, Mock suddenly emerges as the team's best player alongside clubmate Sindelar. His all-around rep seems to be fairly low, though, so I decided against his inclusion. Sesta is another player who mirrors the performances of the team. His highs are higher than ever, but there are some absolute stinkers mixed in, too. Smistik was great at times, but seems to lose his spot in the spring.

    The Italy game isn't great just for the exciting return to form of Sindelar, but also for Meazza playing his best game for the NT, according to Pozzo. Like the Danubians, Italy is also in a rebuilding phase. Ferrari has some good performances, but disappears from the team for a while, so I'm not quite sure about him. Andreolo makes an impressive replacement for Monti, and the wingers Pasinati and Colaussi are showing promise. Not enough to earn them a spot, though.

    England lose the momentum they had from last year. This time Germany is the recipient of the traditional Christmas drubbing, but that's followed up by the also traditional disappointing performance against Scotland (this time Tommy Walker is the best man for the Scots). In their summer tour England go on to lose to Austria and friggin' Belgium. They have a good goalie and excellent defence, including third back Jack Barker. Bastin is still great, and Camsell returns and does pretty well.

    Elsewhere in Europe, there's a new force emerging and it's... Holland. They earn some great results, and opponents generously admit they have one of the best attacks in Europe. The Dutch are getting even more carried away, and are making suggestions they might be one of the best sides in the world period. Kick Smit is pretty good for them, but the sheriff of the posse is Bakhuys.

    For other teams, Bodola has fantastic performances for Romania. The opponents are hardly world class, but I figured he's worth a spot. For Germany, Szepan is the man. For Spain... nobody, they have a terrible season. Langara has earned surprisingly little cred points considering his scoring numbers for the NT. Zubieta does well in a couple of games, but events transpire that will mean we'll never find out how he would have done as a NT-regular...

    The price of isolationism. The Scandinavians suddenly remember there's a Europe, and decide to go on tour... with absolutely terrible results. The opponents seem absolutely flabbergasted at their current level of play and stone age tactics. Norway, though, at least earn some redemption at the Olympics. Domestically Kvammen is the big star, but Juve and Brustad perform a lot better at the Olympics. Taking into account about what I just said about the level of play in Scandinavia, I'm a bit wary of including Juve here. But the old Olympic tournaments generally produced a BdO-nominee or two (Bene in 64, Poles in 72), and I figured he had the best resume.

    Bakhuys, Bep (Netherlands)
    Barker, Jack (England)
    Bastin, Cliff (England)
    Bodola, Gyula (Romania)
    Boucek, Jaroslav (Czechoslovakia)
    Braine, Raymond (Belgium)
    Camsell, George (England)
    Cseh, Laszlo (Hungary)
    Ferrari, Giovanni (Italy)
    Hapgood, Eddie (England)
    Juve, Jorgen (Norway)
    Male, George (England)
    Meazza, Giuseppe (Italy)
    Nejedly, Oldrich (Czechoslovakia)
    Planicka, Frantisek (Czechoslovakia)
    Sarosi, György (Hungary)
    Sesta, Karl (Austria)
    Sindelar, Matthias (Austria)
    Smit, Kick (Netherlands)
    Szepan, Fritz (Germany)
    Titkos, Pal (Hungary)
    Vincze, Jeno (Hungary)
    Walker, Tommy (Scotland)

    Top 3:
    Meazza
    Bastin
    Sindelar

    For a long time I was really worried about not finding a suitable winner, but luckily Meazza finally emerged as IMO the obvious candidate. Other than that the field was wide open. Bastin gets second place for his performances, being described as the "most potentially dangerous footballer in the world." As Tom mentioned, Sindelar is by now past his prime, but the story of his return was too good to pass up.


    TotS:
    Planicka
    Sesta
    Hapgood
    Boucek
    Barker
    Juve
    Braine
    Meazza
    Bakhuys
    Sindelar
    Bastin


    After the retirement of the other great 30s keepers, Planicka has pretty much cemented his spot, though Hibbs and Szabo are offering some competition. Lots of good defenders to choose from, but the two winners seem to be in a class of their own. For a change there's a large contingent of halfbacks to choose from, though they're not necessarily ATG-level. Andreolo, Smistik, Mock and Van Heel were all in contention. Tom's Mitropa thread described Braine's uneven season well, but he does seem to have a reputation as a really big deal. Bakhuys is a surprise to me, but he really seems to be flying this high. The Hungarians just missed out on the money spots.


    Notes:

    -The Hungarians say Monti plays almost always as a third back. What Metodo?

    -Admira's inside-forwards are said to have played a great tiki-taka game against MTK. No really, the term is this old.

    -On the subject of the Olympics, reading the reports offered some fascinating insight about the power balance in the competition. Unsurprisingly Germany were the big favorites, but after that Peru were expected to take the prize, before they got screwed. The (legitimate) amateur teams of the big countries were actually considered underdogs, so the Austrians were hugely surprised to find themselves in the final. China were actually said to play better than the British team, and the press were satisfied with their level of play. No mention of Lee Wai Tong, but the Olympic reports were pretty concise. Japan were a lot weaker, but as happens in football, they got the better results, handing Sweden the most embarrassing defeat in their history. While we were on the subject of standards in Scandinavia...

    Revisionist history will tell you Jesse Owens and the plucky Norwegian NT socked it to those nasty ratsies, but there's none of that to be found in the reports. It was the time of appeasement, the Germans were excited for Owens, and the Germany-Norway game is played off everywhere as just a normal football match.
     
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  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    @Ariaga II I miss some paragraph about your ideas on SA this season.
     
  15. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Isn't that your job? :D You're probably more well-versed on the subject than I am.

    It's another season where nothing happens internationally. Sastre or one of the three Boca attacking stars might be an option.
     
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    hahaha!

    I see mid 1930s as a period of transition in main leagues. As you well said, Boca was the dominant club in Argentina and Peñarol in Uruguay. In Brazil nothing standout.

    I think the main candidates would be Benitez Caceres, Varallo, Severino Varela and Domingos da Guia. Then Villadoniga, Sastre, Valdivieso, Villanueva, L.Fernandez, Leonidas.
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What a typical bullocks that for 2000 there is only one Dutch player in (Davids) while for England, Argentina etc. the floodgates are wide open. :thumbsdown: Enemy.

    The show boating and lazy Djalminha typically overrated. Wasn't even included by Don Balon IIRC and rightly so; the goals and assists were miles behind a few of his team mates, while also outright lazy.
     
  18. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    No Nolberto Solano? Joint top-assist man in England with Beckham?

    Keane in the 23, not Vieira : humm.
     
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  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Another piece of evidence for the conspiracy

     
  20. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    In perfect timing, I'm in the process of reading a book on the history of Swedish football, and it touches on the causes of the Swedish isolation and decline during the 20s and 30s. I'll share them in a special notes section.

    The book offers several explanations. Firstly, the Allsvenkan began, causing an increase in fixtures. This led to greater player fatigue and left the squad with less time for international get-togethers. This would back up what @PuckVanHeel said about the benefits of training for the Swedish NT.

    The birth of the Dr. Gerö cup meant central European countries had less interest and time to arrange games against the Scandinavians. In a match against Italy there were some shenanigans that led to a pitch invasion, and apparently this led to a decreased interest on the part of the Swedes to face off against the Southern countries. There wouldn't be a problem in filling the fixtures, though, as Sweden would go on to play more A-internationals than any other country at the time, indiscriminately playing numerous matches against weak Balkan nations, which in turn led to a lowered quality and prestige of international matches. The peak was reached one fine September in 1930 when Sweden played three internationals at the same time.

    Another cause for the decline had its roots in a game in 1926, where Austria decimated Sweden. Coach Bill Pettersson felt the problem was Sweden's playing system, and decided to make a complete tactical overhaul. "And here I thought we lost because the Austrians had better players", remarked Sigge Lindberg. The new system was called the Helsingborg-system, named after the club Pettersson used the tactics with. A key feature was the wing-halves marking the opposition wingers. The problem with the system was that it was exclusive to Helsingborg, which meant players from other clubs weren't used to it and had trouble adapting to it for the NT.

    The book also touches on Sweden's controversial decision to decline to participate in the 1928 Olympics. Lack of funds and the Amateur question were both offered as excuses at the time, but the book suggests the actual reason was a beef FA-boss Anton Johanson had with Dutch FIFA-man Cornelis Hirschman.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #1846 PuckVanHeel, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
    Why is Denis ignored for this list and Tarp included? They actually played against each other in 1925 and Denis won with 4-2 (as was overall the case between 1920 and 1940). Yes, I know that doesn't say all about individual performances...

    This is typical clueless foreign commentary.

    The truth is football was still an elite sport at the time. Something like 40% came from the higher 'classes' with a higher education degree. Over the full population only 1% had a university degree. Logical result is an over representation of the Western regions (source: 'Bosatlas of Football'). The Western regions is where 'the elite' moved to and came from (for a long time the Catholic southern parts of the country were de facto colonies without parliamentary representation because they were loyal to Rome and not the country and the great Protestant values :thumbsup: ).

    Strict adherence to amateurism also kept the 'working class' away from the sport. In particular since the social mobility was rapidly improving to a relatively high standard (see Vialli and Marcotti their 'Italian Job' book for an elaboration). Actual career and economic opportunities were opening up.

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...anda/88a2ae180b95596138899c3be6b179670d66724e

    https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/207518/1/dp12694.pdf

    Anyway, I have stopped contributing much constructive to this board since a few months and will stick to it.

    It's ridiculous how the consensus thinks Uruguay is the better and greater performing football nation. In truth, between 1974 and 2014 only Germany reached more often a semi final of a major tournament (of all european countries). Not bad when typically you're an unseeded team (and several market forces work against you, like retaining personnel, artificially manipulating the CL entry tickets for commercial reasons)... Doesn't register among the clown brigades. Peru FC is also parroting what others came up with like elevating Sol Campbell, who factually just didn't elevate his (low performing) teams to higher levels than they would be.

    Before the expansion/closed shop of the Champions League 'we' were also high in the goals scored, see video above.

    For why CL access is important, see this video.

     
  22. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I don't "ignore" players. Everyone is ignored by default. I include players when they've done enough to warrant inclusion. You just answered your own question.

    I didn't hear you complaining when I included Denis for TotS in 1920 even though his team were leaking goals left and right.


    The info was from a Dutch sports magazine, you jingoistic windbag. :laugh:
     
  23. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    :confused:

    To be honest, I was very tempted to include him, especially due to this data (tied with David Beckham with 15 assists), but at the same time this season I've not been able to recall brilliant episodes so well, perhaps partly because of Newcastle United's low-key campaign.

    This season (1999-00) I included Alan Shearer as Honorable Mention and maybe it would be a bit strange if I included 2 players from a team that had such a low profile. On the other hand, this list had already 23+69 players (92), he didn't obtain any other recognition that I know of and I noticed DBS Calcio didn't give a particularly high score (102th at overall).

    From my memories and how I followed him (being Peruvian) I remember him somewhat better seasons in 2000-01 (he was 2nd behind Beckham in assists, with 10) and 2001-02 (his highest scoring season adding international competitions and with Newcastle United 4th in the FA Premier League).

    By the way, I must add (and I'll add in the compilation in the blog) Marc Overmars in Honorable Mentions. I had discarded him because I was very sure to remember that season he was injured for several months, but apparently I was wrong. Good season with Arsenal and a plus for his performances in the Euro.

    This seems to me to be one of the best seasons of the Irish hard man and I'd notice him above Patrick Vieira (somethink that I think will be reversed in the following season).

    Both were selected in the PFA Team of Year, but Roy Keane won the Player of the Month mention in December 1999, won the FWA Footballer of the Year and PFA Players' Player of the Year awards. He was also very good in the UEFA Champions League contributing unprecedentedly with 6 goals in 12 matches and being selected 2 times in the ESM Team of the Month (which led to him being in the annual team).

    Vieira, of course, may have a certain advantage due to his performance in the Euro (which Keane didn't play with Ireland), but I'm not sure it caused so much unevenness.
     
  24. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018

    1936-1937:

    Another pretty quiet season at international level. There aren't a lot of matches played, and most teams have mixed results and performances. You could say my research this season came up inconclusive, and it was a tough job juggling all the different competitions. Most of the players mentioned here had at least one stinker at some point. The only exception was Italy, where the inside trio of Meazza-Piola-Ferrari seemed to be riding high consistently. Their one loss is credited to shenanigans, and it's actually been scratched from Italian record books (Austria-game was ended early due to violence).

    A big event in Europe this year was the first supranational representative match. The line-ups, especially for the stronger Central Europe, are a pretty good indicator of which players were blowing hot this year. There are a couple of notable players missing, and I managed to find out they were all supposed to be included originally. Szepan was unavailable, and there were a couple of last-moment replacements:
    Paverick for Janes,
    Olivieri for Planicka and
    Nejedly for Puc (explains why he's in the left-wing).
    Hahnemann and Cseh were unused substitutes. Some members of the media were campaigning for the inclusion of Sindelar and Van Heel (no prizes for guessing what nationalities the campaigners represented).
    Piola and Braine were the best players in that game. Van Den Eynde disappointed.

    The Central European powers were mostly disappointing this season. Paradoxically, though Hungary had weaker results, they had the best performances (more on that below), with a number of players impressing as individuals at times. Besides the ones on my final list, Szucs and Zsengeller were also close to making it. I'm not sure the latter has quite cemented his place yet. Austria have still been called the Wunderteam, but the press is now suggesting it should only be used ironically. That's how bad they are now. Sindelar and Sesta were their best, though Binder is now impressing for the first time, too. Czechoslovakia are downright horrible, with only Planicka and Burgr bringing their A-games. Actually, one might make the argument the Danubian school is already done for good by this point? Germany is on the rise with the birth of their first ever top side, the Breslau-elf.

    England are another one with mixed results. Most of their nominees are undone by rotation. Male and Britton were the ones who were around to impress consistently. Matthews, Brook, Bastin, Drake and Carter all impressed at times, but mostly they're not around. Carter is described as always bringing it for his club, if not his NT.

    Surprisingly, the top side around this time is said to be Scotland. Maybe not surprising in the sense that they do have the best results around this time, with a dismantling of Czechoslovakia as the highlight. They seem to be somewhat lacking in individual stars, though. Dawson, Simpson, Brown, McPhail and Delaney all impress at times, but I'm not sure if it was at the level that would earn them a nomination. Tommy Walker seems to be the top players, though, so he's in.

    South America is starting to increase their profile again with the return of a proper Copa America. For research I'm using Brazilian papers that I can't put into Google Translate, so mostly I'm resorting to just skimming. Sastre and Varela were described as the outstanding players of the tournament at one point, though. Patesko impressed enough for Independiente and San Lorenzo to try to sign him. Peucelle and Varallo both seem to be highly rated. Leonidas, meanwhile, seems to be going through a contractual dispute. Is that the reason he missed out on the Copa?

    A special case is Arsenio Erico, who's one of the toughest players for me to try to figure out. Generally I leave the achievements of the 1937 season for next year, but 60 goals is the kind of number that I assume was already raising brows halfway through the season. The main benefits of his season I'll leave for next year, though.

    Andreolo, Miguel (Uruguay/Italy)
    Braine, Raymond (Belgium)
    Cseh, Laszlo (Hungary)
    Delaney, Jimmy (Scotland)
    Doherty, Peter (N. Ireland)
    Erico, Arsenio (Paraguay)
    Ferrari, Giovanni (Italy)
    Lazar, Gyula (Hungary)
    Lehner, Ernst (Germany)
    Meazza, Giuseppe (Italy)
    Patesko (Brazil)
    Peucelle, Carlos (Argentina)
    Piola, Silvio (Italy)
    Planicka, Frantisek (Czechoslovakia)
    Sarosi, György (Hungary)
    Sas, Ferenc (Hungary)
    Sastre, Antonio (Argentina)
    Sesta, Karl (Austria)
    Sindelar, Matthias (Austria)
    Szepan, Fritz (Germany)
    Toldi, Geza (Hungary)
    Varela, Severino (Uruguay)
    Walker, Tommy (Scotland)


    Top 3:
    1. Piola
    2. Sarosi
    3. Sastre


    It was a tight race down to the wire for my top 2, a reflection of their Mitropa clash. The final was only decided at the end of October, so there's no way I can include it for this season, and that's what tips the scale in favor of Piola. Sarosi was still suffering from tight marking at international level at times, whereas Piola was consistently good. He was also unstoppable at the supranational Jubilee match. A quiet international season allows Sastre, South America's best player, to pip Meazza for the #3 spot.


    TotS:
    Planicka
    Burgr
    Sesta
    Sastre
    Andreolo
    Lazar
    Szepan
    Meazza
    Piola
    Sarosi
    Braine


    Planicka is still locked in at goal, with the primary challenge coming from Yugoslavia's Glaser. Olivieri is making some tentative claims. Right-backs were more prominent than lefties, so Sesta is moved over. Burgr pips Male for the other spot. Schmaus would be chief among the lefties.

    Sastre solves a big problem at the halfback-line. I thought about dropping Sarosi there, too, but didn't want to go too ESM with my selection. Lazar has been on my radar for a while, and now seems like an obvious choice, while Andreolo beats Szucs for the central spot.

    Lack of real top-quality wingers results in another creative forward-line. Braine's jubilee performance earns him a spot, and Szepan seems to be enjoying a very high profile, too. Sindelar just misses out, and Cseh has to settle for being an unused sub again.


    Notes:

    -In wonderful foreshadowing, Hungary appeared in London to give England a tactical masterclass. On this occasion, it didn't quite work out, as Hungary go down 6-2. They were a lot better than the scoreline suggests, though, and the press was impressed. While England play the ball to stationary players, Hungary pass into open space. The Hungarians themselves describe England as having no system. Sarosi is playing in a "series of indeterminate positions", while Lazar drops so deep he's basically a second right-back. For England centre-half Young is playing deeper than ever, even behind the other defenders. One got the feeling Hungary were already giving their system away, but 15 years later England had completely forgotten this lesson.

    -A possible translation error, but it seems Romania have restrictions that allow only three minorities to play for the NT in one match. This might explain the lack of caps for some players. Baratky at least had some ineligibility issues, as well.
     
  25. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Germany in 1938

    Probably the most interesting development to me in 1938 (football-wise :D) is the birth of Anschluss Germany. This needs a chapter of its own, because there's so much to unpack.

    More often than not, modern revisionist takes will go for the narrative that the greater Germany was weaker than the sum of its two parts. It's pretty common to even see claims that the Anschluss killed off the Wunderteam, which I hope I've thoroughly debunked already. Another take is that the Breslau-Elf was a team on the cusp of greatness that was also killed off by the Anschluss. The actual results and performances sing a whole other kind of tune, though.

    The Breslau-elf hit a fantastic run of form against the weaker Scandinavian nations, and were even described by eager Swedes as being "of the best English class". However, by the time 1938 rolls along, the team is already pretty much done. The actual English show up to show actual best English class and steamroll the Germans in the famous Nazi salute match. The Breslau-elf can no longer win a game to save their life. As I reported before, Austria likewise were already in the doldrums, and have been for a while now. So if anything Greater Germany is just continuing in the standards set by its two components.

    Another narrative is the one about the plucky mountain men from Switzerland defying the odds and felling the mighty Greater Germany against all expectations. The truth of the matter is that both their results and performances were already better than Germany's in early 1938. These results include a win a week later against the same England that had ran over Germany. Not a fluke win, but a win achieved by outplaying their famous opponents.

    Another myth I want to touch on is the one of Sindelar the Nazi enemy. I'm sure everyone has heard the legend of the lone rebel footballer who defied the evil regime and paid the ultimate price for it. The man who ruined an arranged draw between Germany and Ostmark by scoring a goal, and then doing some kind of provocative jig in front of the Nazi officials. The newspaper reports don't mention that, of course. What they do mention, though, is Reichssportfuhrer Von Tschammer und Osten (Yes) dropping by to the pitch after the game to congratulate MotM Sindelar and give a speech celebrating his merits. This is before Sindelar leads his buddies to some celebratory happy heils. OK, could be the papers made things up or exaggerated it, but the speech at least is reported in several sources. In an interesting side, Von TuO also mentions how the Nazis plan to "secure a bourgeois existence" for Austrian pros, while also retaining the amateur status of the rest of Germany. Anyone know how that worked out?

    There's also no mention of heroic Austrians throwing the WC or playing more poorly than their German counterparts, which is another pretty common rumor. What does seem to be true is the inability to marry off the two very distinct playing styles together, though. This is nothing new for Germany. I mentioned before how in the 20s they used regional teams as the NT because it allowed them to leap over the problems of trying to mix together different playing styles.

    Trying to marry Germany into Austria leads into hilarious levels of tinkering, such as dropping the two best players in the inter-German derby (Sindelar and Sesta). Who needs Sindelar when you can just play halfback Gellesch in the forward line, right? They're totally committed to the 6+5 rule, or rather the insistence of not having there be more Austrians than Germans in the team. It doesn't explain senseless decisions like also dropping Szepan and Goldbrunner, but I think the two of them had injury problems.

    Other than the ones mentioned, Lehner and Hahnemann were the better players for the side.

    Also, while playing at the WC, the German anthem was booed. The papers blame emigre Jews for it, because they couldn't believe the French and Swiss would resort to such crude behavior. :D
     
    Gregoriak repped this.

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