High-res logos?

I would suggest that you contact USSF directly for both of these questions.

If the answer to the second if yes, then I'm sure they can provide you with the artwork.

 

I might be wrong but I do not believe the license we have with USSF through certification includes the usage of the logo for personal identification. You would have to contact the person in charge of licensing to find out the specific restrictions and what other requirements there are for its usage, and if you can obtain or purchase an extended license.

After talking to a few producers in the past publishing soccer-related products it seems as though obtaining the "USSF stamp of approval" is a very intricate and detailed process. They set up review committees to make sure all information is accurate and presented appropriately, a process that can take many months and revisions. As far as for a business card I don't think USSF has any licensing available for personal use of that nature.

 

"Hey, you sass that hoopy Jarrett Campbell? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is."

Hey wjarrettc,

This is from one of my favorite series of books. You have good taste and are welcomed into the Fraternity!

Scott

 

Actually, I believe that we are talking about copyright and who owns it. If the logo is being used for money making reasons you would need approval. If it is for personal reasons such as a card stating that you are a certified, registered USSF official than there should be no problem with that use. It's the same as wearing that badge. It is telling people that you are USSF registered and an official. You are not re-selling that logo.
Now, the other reason I think that you are OK is that your registration with USSF makes you a member of that orginization. That orginization prints the logo on your uniforms, badges, t-shirts, bags, luggage tags, flags. You as a Referee use these things every game you do. The only required display of the logo is your badge. Everything else you are choosing to use and display. So, as a member of USSF you are allowed to display the crest without further permission. It is also used so wide spread that I don't believe that, unless you are reselling that logo, you would ever have a problem using it on your card.
Kind of like singing "Happy Birthday." Yeah, someone owns the copyright but do you pay every time you sing it to your kids?

 

Copyrights pertain to manifestations of ideas -- the design of the logo is copyright, the usage of the logo is a trademark. A licensing agreement contains information on when a trademark may be used and how it is to be displayed, if at all.

If wjarretc was designing another graphic that was very similar to the USSF logo then he may be infringing upon their copyright. Instead he is trying to figure out when and how he can use the logo for third-party identification. This can only be found by asking what permissions are granted by the licensing agreement and how he might obtain more permissions (usually you pay for them), if available.

 

Like I said, it is used on everything we have. The trademark "T" is only present on the shirt that is printed by OSI. There is no other trademark indicated on the badge or any other product, including registration forms, registraion cards etc. If you are not using is for profit I still say that you are OK with using it on a card that has your name and info saying that you are a USSF Referee. You are a member of USSF and are just showing that. You are not selling the cards. Again, do you pay every time you sing "Happy Birthday?" No, because it is really part of the public domain at this point. The USSF crest is on everything. Just like the US Soccer logo. Every club or member organization uses it to signify that they are members.
This is all that you are doing when placing that logo on the card. Many, many, many of us do it. You would think by now there would have been a law suite to stop the practice if we couldn't.

 

I'm not going to keep the circular argument going, but I will point out one more thing. So far everything you have listed is either a member organization of USSF (such as a state association) or a licensed partner organization (such as OSI). They are allowed to use the logo per their own license agreements. This is why only OSI is allowed to use the logo and not other companies like Olympus or Law 5. OSI is the ONLY producer allowed to use it because they have permission -- USSF grants them that right and withholds it from all others.

Like I said, I don't know if we as independent licensed third-party individual members of the organization have the ability to use the logo for personal identification. Wearing a product like a T-shirt or logo'd jersey is not personal identification, it's marketing. Putting it on a website or business card is. It'd be best to just ask USSF instead of risk future problems. It might very well seem Ok to YOU, whistleblower, but it is up to USSF and not your decision. I've put words in bold to emphasize we are not talking about organizations but about individuals -- the organizations represent USSF in all factors of their operation; the only time we as referees do is during a game on the field. Hence the badge.

 

Actually, the "Happy Birthday" copyright has a special exception for use by the general public, otherwise, yes, you would have to pay if you sang it in a public place.

Ever wonder why all those restaurant chains have their own goofy birthday celebration songs and don't just have the wait staff sing "Happy Birthday"? Because they'd have to pay.

We now return you to soccer-related matters.

 

What you seem to want to ignore is that WE are members of USSF. You recognize the fact that state associations are members why don't you recognize the fact the Referees are also members. We are. Yes we are independent contractors when it come sto game fees but we are most certainly members of USSF and have a right to that logo if there is no financial gain from the use.
USSF would not sue you for using the logo on a card that says who you are as a Referee. If it was on your business card with, let's your law firm as well, yes that is abusing the right to the logo.
A trademark is an identity of a certain party. In this case it identifies USSF. Everything we wear for USSF has that logo. It identifies us with being USSF Referees. A card with that logo does the same thing. There is no personal gain from this use. It is merely identifying you as a USSF Referee.
You can take the time to ask whether or not you can add it to a card identifying you as a USSF Referee. That's your choice.
Maybe next time you fill out a game report that hasn't come directly from USSF and has the logo included you should call Chicago to get permission before you send it in. :^)

 

Sure we are members whistle, but please explain to me why we are not allowed to use the USSF badge for anything other than when we referee a USSF match?

Yep, licensing. Restricted use of the badge. Just like there is restricted use of the logo. Is using it for personal identification part of the restriction? Good question -- better check the licensing agreement.

 

Statesman, you aren't serious are you? We can't wear USSF badges in other games because that would be misrepresenting who you are to the players and others. And, also, your certification only allows you to wear them in sanctioned games. Not because they are part of some sort of restricted licensing. Now I know your stretching it.
Let's move on.

 

These two things are one in the same. A licensing agreement is a document that gives somebody permission to do something that they otherwise would not have liberty to do. In our case that means USSF gives us permission to wear their badge -- not at any time we so desire, it is restricted to those games sanctioned by USSF. We do not have license to wear the badge to any other game outside of USSF. The logo is the same way, people can't just use it whenever and however they want -- that would be illegal. Membership may very well give us license to use the logo on a business card but it also may not. That is why you must ask USSF if it is allowed unless somebody on these boards knows for sure.

These are simply the facts of the situation whether you want to believe them or not, whistle. I am not stupid and as somebody who has sought permission to use the USSF logo on products in the past I seem to have a bit more experience than you. I can see intellectual property and contract law are not your strong suits and I don't hold that against you. I am sorry if you are offended by my sharing some facts on the subject; hopefully wjarretc got the answer he was looking for.

I wonder what your reponse would be if I told you that none of us owns our badge either

 

Common sense applies here. You just want to argue. And, I do know more about intellectual property and contract law than you think I do. If I say why I would most likely give awy who I am to some.
The badge is not a logo. We are members of USSF. We are not licensed to wear the badge. There is no licensing agreement to wear the badge. There is nothing in our paperwork that grants this nor states this or claims a copyright or trademark of the badge. (as you should know, all rights granted must be in writing by the owner of the rights)
Trademark has nothing to do with a restriction of when and where and how we wear the badge. It has everything to do with certification and representation.
You use the example of yourself seeking the use of the logo. You wanted to use it for something that would yield financial gain for you or someone else. That's a big difference between what we are speaking of. If you were correct in your statement you and everyone else that uses photo copies of Referee reports from USSF would be liable for the mis-use and infringement. But this is not the case.
Now go ahead and start something else about who owns the badge or not. I wn't even try and discuss that one with you because I'm sure it's rediculous.
I'm done with this discussion.
Go ahead and get the last word in and then lets' move on.

 

I suggest that you may identify yourself as a member of the organization, but use of its logo may require permission.

You might look at a decision from the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, involving Playboy magazine and ex-playmate of the year Terry Welles.The court ruled that she could identify use the marks Playboy and Playmate-of-the-year in a nominative sense -- ie., to state the fact that she was chosen by Playboy as a Playmate of the year. But she did not have permission to use the Playboy logos.

This doctrine is known, in trademark circles, as "nominative fair use."

 

I think you have to look at this both legallly and practically.
As a legal matter, the organization owns its logo as a trademark/service mark. It has the right to prevent others from using it in a way that would either cause confusion as to source, sponsorship, or affiliation, or would damage its reputation or dilute the distinctive quality of the mark. Thus a trademark owner has broad rights to protects its intellectual property.
As a practical matter, if you use its logo in connection with your organization-related activities, it probably won't complain, even though it might have the right to do so. As a practical matter, it probably would not complain unless you began using its mark for non-organization related activities.

 

Had some major goof off time today.... and came acorss the US Patent and Trademark Office Web site. Did search on 'United States Soccer Federation" and came up with this:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfiel...A2$ALL&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query

Interesting to note that can't find the word "business card" in any of the 'live' trademarks. Not sure what that means exactly though. Anyone contacted their SYA on this?

 

Uuuuhhhh Whistle, I don't know if you know more about intellectual property and contract law than Statesman thinks you do, but based on your discussion I fear that you don't know as much about intellectual property and contract law as YOU think you do.

Jim