Hermann Candidates

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Oct 21, 2003.

  1. lastword

    lastword New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    College Park, MD
    Taylor vs. Ngwenya

    Chris E, the stats you provide are telling, and it is also telling that u note PDL schedules are no more even than NCAA schedules. I would argue that they is less parity in the PDL. I don't want to demean Ngwenya's accomplishments, however many of his PDL goals were scored against inferior teams from New Jersey. approximately 37% of them. I don't think anyone can look at those stats or NCAA stats and say this is the best college player. Would you agree that UCLA has accomplished more last year and this year against superior competition, and that Ngwenya has not been prominent or even productive in the NCAA tourney? I have conceded that he is a marked man, and a very good player, however, what has his team accomplished? I would rather see Scott Beute win the Hermann if the Terps win the championship, than Ngwenya win after bowing out in the 1st or 2nd round. I truly believe that he would not have the numbers he has if his team competed in the Pac 10, ACC, or Big East. That is not racist, just my opinion.
  2. cantona24

    cantona24 New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Is Ngwenya the next John Barry Nusum--big, strong forward who takes advantage of smaller,less athletic defenders from mediocre to above average schools, scoring massive amounts of goals? I don't know, because I haven't seen him play. But it seems that wherever he goes, goals seem to follow. Pretty impressive stats from his junior year, then the PDL, and again this year. Is he the best overall player in college soccer? Maybe, but probably not. I'm willing to bet there's a middie or defender who makes it much further as a professional. Yet we all know that the voters are suckers for goals, and it could come down to Taylor or Ngwenya.

    Let's rephrase the question this way...If you are the coach of a team and get to pick a striker, who do you pick, Ngwenya or Taylor?

    I go with Ngwenya--
  3. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Re: Taylor vs. Ngwenya

    No, PDL schedules are not necessarily more even than NCAA schedules. Cape Cod and Orange County, however, seem to have played about the same strength of schedule.

    The average winning percentage of teams Ngwenya played was 53.7, the average winning percentage of teams Taylor played was 50.3.

    Both had some very weak teams on their schedule: for Cape Cod, these were Worcester, Jersey Shore, and Jersey; for Orange County, these were BYU, Nevada, and San Diego.

    The average winning percentage of the teams that Ngwenya scored against was 55.6, the average per goal was 46.7, because he scored 3 against Jersey and Jersey Shore. Taylor's average winning percentage per goal was 52.4.

    Additionally, after his first two games, Ngwenya scored in ever single game he played in, 14 in a row. And, of course, although their opponent's winning percentages were the same, let it not be forgotten the Ngwenya scored at twice the rate of Taylor. And won the PDL championship.

    Regarding his college career, I haven't really followed college soccer, but I'll give it a shot.

    Did Ngwenya show in 2002? Well, he played two games, his team beat South Carolina, and then fell to a very strong Clemson team in p.k.'s, a team that featured Doug Warren, Ricky Lewis, and Dimelon Westfield, among others. I wouldn't consider that a weak showing.

    In 2001 they went out in the first round, and in 2000 they didn't make the tourney. If you want to put this on Ngwenya, feel free, but bear in mind that Taylor is surrounded by a far better team than Ngwenya.
  4. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    In my opinion, no, they are two different types of players. JBN liked to showboat. He would do the pretty move, touch or juggle just for the sake of showing off. That's just fine in my book. I like players that show off.

    JBN wasn't THAT tall nor was he very fast. Big school defenders could shut him down by marking close, staying goal side and nodding balls away. It doesn't take much more than size and speed to shut down one player and the bigger schools recruit that defensive size and speed.

    Ngwenya, OTOH, is tall and fast as well as having the foot skills and great first touch. Moreover, unlike JBN, he lays the ball off to open players. Ngwenya is much better than JBN at creating chances for his teammates.
  5. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    If you had a scale to evaluate foreign college forwards on their pro potential and on one end was John Barry Nussum, equalling bust as a pro and the other end there was Damani Ralph, equalling bust as a pro, I think Ngwenya is much closer to Ralph than Nussum.

    Not saying he'll have Ralph's kind of rookie year, but he isn't gonna be a bust.
  6. myshap

    myshap Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Columbus Crew
    John Barry Nusum hasn't done that bad for Atlanta. I think he scored like 9 goals his first year with the club as a sub and this year with injuries he was able to collect 7.

    Though I'm noy saying he's better then Ralph because who can argue with what he's done, but Nusum really wasn't given the same chance Ralph was this year with the Fire. The Fire were basically rebuliding their forward corp this year, while last year when Nusum was drafted by the Crew, the Crew had McBride, Buddle, Cunningham, and Washington on the roster. I would have prefered he'd stayed in Columbus over aging veterans like Lapper, Yeagley, and Warzchya who just wound up retiring midseason anyway. However, I can see their point, how do you justify a 5th forward. Although Nusum could have made it in MLS as a RM, IMO like Noonan was projected as this year. He wouldn't accept a DP contract either and who can blame a college grad who wants to make a living wage for that.

    Now that the Crew might be losing Cunningham this offseason, I wouldn't mind giving Nusum another look in Columbus. He's only 23 so he could still be a TI for two years.
  7. lastword

    lastword New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    College Park, MD
    Ngwenya vs. Taylor

    Chris E; Are you saying Ngwenya should not be blamed if Coastal Carolina loses in the NCAA's, but credited if Cape Cod wins in the PDL? We are, after all, talking college soccer. You acknowledge that Ngwenya has 1 goal in 3 NCAA tourney games over the last 2 years, and reached the second round only once. I am not touting Taylor or anyone else for the Hermann, however, your post made me look at the stats, and they really favor Taylor; In the last 2 years, Taylor has 7 goals and 2 assists in Tourney play, 16 points vs. 2 points for Ngwenya. His team won the National championship, and Taylor led the NCAA in scoring in the 2002 tourney with 5 goals and 2 assists. If you include the 2002 NCAA's and the 2003 regular season, Taylor is by far the most productive of the 2. If you claim that Ngwenya did not do much, because Clemson was so good, then I am completely lost regarding your assertions. Are you Partisan? Do championships count? You claim that one player is surrounded by better players, and should that be considered? Should we look at the best player on the worst team in D1, and consider him for player of the year? I do not have a dog in this fight, but I do think you should consider prime time, championships, college competition, etc. I don't care who wins, but let's get the facts straight and don't claim Xenophobia or racism if your choice does not win.
  8. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Re: Ngwenya vs. Taylor

    Well, I don't really think that it's fair to pick and choose your championships. Ngwenya won the PDL, Taylor won the NCAA's. Are the NCAA's more prestigious? Yeah, probably, but is the competition any weaker in the PDL? I would say not.

    For the record, I don't really care who wins the Hermann, or MVP of MLS this year, or any of those awards. When I responded to your original post, it was concerning the claim that "Taylor would score 25 goals" against Ngwenya's team. I think that is pretty clearly untrue.

    Now, if UCLA wins the NCAA championship, and Taylor wins the Hermann, that won't bother me a bit. But if Ngwenya takes Coastal to the quarterfinals (e.g.), I think he has to be considered, considering that UCLA has a whole lot more talent players than Coastal. But, obviously, I don't think that the fact that Taylor won the NCAA championship in 2002 should have any impact on who wins the Hermann for 2003, and I certainly don't think it has much bearing on who is the better player.

    And, for the record, Ngwenya did do a good deal against Clemson; he scored their only goal, in a game that they only lost in PK's. And no I'm not partisan, at all.

  9. Dsocc

    Dsocc Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Re: Ngwenya vs. Taylor

    So on this basis, are you saying that awarding Eskandarian the Hermann last year was the proper thing to do?
  10. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Sammys

    Sammys New Member

    Mar 5, 2002
    15 Finalist for Hermann Trophy:

    The list is headlined by two student-athletes who were on last year's ballot, Wingert and Maryland senior midfielder Sumed Ibrahim.
    The remaining nominations for the men's ballot are: C.J. Klass, a junior midfielder from Washington; Ryan Cochrane, a junior defender from Santa Clara; Cesar Cuellar, a senior forward from Connecticut; Ned Grabavoy, a junior midfielder from Indiana; Adolpho Gregorio, a senior midfielder from UCLA; William Hesmer, a senior goalkeeper from Wake Forest; Aaron Lopez, a junior midfielder from UCLA; Chad Marshall, a sophomore defender from Stanford; Guy Melamed, a junior defender from Boston College; Joseph Ngwenya, a senior forward from Coastal Carolina; Abe Thompson, a junior forward from Maryland; David Wagenfuhr, a junior midfielder from Creighton; and Jeremiah White, a senior forward from Wake Forest.
  12. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Maryland's best player isn't even on this list. Scott Buete is a baller...ask the guys who have played against Maryland and they'll tell you that Buete runs that team.

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