I need some help in figuring out our winger situation at the moment. I see it as sort of complicated (non-linear) because, well, just look below as I have three groupings of players: The everyday depth chart left wing Beasley Olsen Lewis Convey right wing Olsen Klein Thorrington Okay, first rule is that I'm not listing players who won't see the playing field. Thus Ralston or Chung aren't here- what's the point? Normally at other positions Reyna JOB Hedjuk Donovan These three guys all played wing in the WC as they were better than other options that Arena had. So you have to wonder when a crucial game is about to be played if these guys would start over any of the wingers above. Would, say, Arena start JOB on left wing over Olsen/Lewis/Convey if DMB were hurt? Of course that would depend on if JOB could be spared elsewhere, which is why there are three lists here and not a simple linear depth chart. Convey may eventually fit into this place as well especially if Hudson starts playing him regularly in a central position. I put Donovan here but I doubt that we'll see him at wing again. rather LD wiil force the others to go to wing. The old guys Stewart Cobi Henderson I'm not so sure about Henderson but I don't think that we've seen the last of the first two here, at least in the WCQs if Arena's first choices are hurt. I can imagine Arena using Cobi's legs in some Central America game before he let's some young thing go out there. This is sort of how Arena used Ramos in the semis last time. Would Arena start a healthy Earnie or Cobi over Klein? So that's how I'm looking at it at the moment. Do you guys see it differently?
Do you want to list the young potentials as well? Like Kyle Martino, Edson Buddle, and Brad Davis. Are they going to become winger options over the next year or so? Possibly. (Martino came in on the wing for Olsen vs. El Salvador)
You are pretty close, but based on his current form, I think Lewis should be on top of that left winger list. Whether he is there, in 06 is another matter. Old guys are done, unless we are decimated by injury.
1) Lewis -- He's been on an amazingly productive run in the English First Division. At the moment, he's among our best options on the left. 2) Thorrington -- 2002 has been a nightmare year. He's not getting consistent minutes in the English Second Division, so presumably he's somewhere below Brian West on the list of options. 3) Stewart -- A spent force, he's now only a part-time player in Holland. Hasn't he retired from the National Team?
Olsen's inability to cross well with his left foot probably puts him behind Lewis on the left, and his dribbling skills/speed don't match what Jones brought for years on the right. He is a gritty tireless above average player, but hopefully a better rightsided option will emerge. Likewise Klein's game seems similar (ie., outwork your opponent and hope alot when you hit your crosses). Both players might fit in a slow-buildup type attack like we saw yesterday, but I can't see the US as remaining competitive with the better teams in the world without more speed than either Klein or Olsen bring.
So far this has been helpful. Not sure what to think of Martino or Buddle yet as they can play a couple of positions. Yesterday we saw Martino sub in for Olsen but that might have been more that Arena wanted to keep LD out there in the middle and Kyle just took the open place. We'll see. Brad Davis? I think he needs to improve in Arena's eyes before he gets serious consideration. Could happen though... You guys are right about Stewart and thorrington. But I think Cobi is still hanging around.
I'll have to concur on Lewis. Right now I think DMB and Lewis are the *only* options on the left flank. Olsen *did* actually play some left flank for BA during odd times before, but I don't think he'll see playing time in a real game there unless we are decimated by injuries. My guess is that JOB would be third choice there. I do think Cobi's play in MLS this year means he would see time if the US were playing meaningful games. Stewart is done though. Its hard to say who the right flank players are in order, but Klein and Olsen are too close to call. On the right I'd go Klein/Olsen Donovan Cobi And from reading some of the reports from Germany it seems that Cherundolo is playing well offensively (have not seen him play though). I'm wondering if BA went with a 3-5-2 if Cherundolo might actually be the 3rd option for a right flank player? I think BA doesn't like his size as a right back in a 4-4-2 though.
Nobody would call Heskey a winger, even tho he plays there from time to time. Playing Buddle on the wing is a waste of his talent, IMO. He's a striker, and most dangerous in the box. Only play him on the wing if you are a) trying to get your best 11 players on the field, b) have an abundence of strikers, and c) are weak on the wings. Martino is not a wing player either. He's been much more effective in MLS when he's been in the middle.
Ursula, I basically agree with this. I thik you would move Lewis over Olsen on the left right behind Beasley. Olsen is definately moving into the top spot on the right. But I would but Donovan on the list of right wingers as well. If Reyna continues on to 2006 and our Forward depth grows as it has been, then Donovan very well could end up on the right wing.
It is still waayyyyyyyy too early to think about 2006. You never know who is gonna be in top form and who is not. Lewis and Cobi Jones and playing great soccer right now. Cobi is by far the best right winger RIGHT NOW, but he was piss poor during WCQ and so is Lewis. You just never know. Maybe a player will come out of absolutely no where in 2005 and become a starter for next world cup. Still a lot of things can happen in next 4 years.
There is no arguing this point. Of course it is. But we can always assess where we are right now. Thus, the discussion. I wouldn't put Cobi anywhere on my depth chart at all. He will not be on the team in 2006 and it would be a waste of developmental time to even have him on the roster.
I have no problem with discussing just the depth chart, but too many people talk about 2006 like 2006 is this year.
Alot of people mention Justin Mapp as the left winger of the future, but I think he could be in the hunt for 2006, if..... He gets more consistent. He has matches wear he looks outstanding but the next game he will disappear.But definanlty someone to keep your eye on. Lets hope Brad Davis, or let me through a darkhorse at you, Sam Lloyd of Charlton develop into quality right wingers.
I would not rule out the possibility of Donovan becoming the first choice at right midfield. I think Mathis' limitations and strengths may lead to this. Mathis is such a strong finisher Arena might want him in the attacking mix. He is, however, an opportunistic player who seems most effective playing in a withdrawn position. He does not demonstrate the target-player, hard running pressure type player (ie., McBride or perhaps Twellman) that Arena often wants as a forward, and he does not possess sufficent speed to be dangerous when closely marked. I think therefore Mathis, if he makes the 2006 team, would play in the forward midfield rather than as a striker. If so, where does Donovan go ? He could play as a holding midfielder in a 3-5-2 but is it his strength? Playing wide on the right as an attacking midfielder (see Figo) would put alot of pressure on the defenses, open room for Mathis, and put two good distributors into attacking positions, probably with OBrien, Mastroanni, and (depending on formation) possibly Convey behind them. Playing Donovan on the right would require a strong right sided back yet to be found. I think this team will have lots of options at striker ( probably a target player and a speedster paired together) so Mathis and Donovan may be better used elsewhere. I for one would take Donovan over Olsen or Klein at right midfield any day.
Thanks all for your thoughts. Although I was interested in how the depth chart now, as opposed to guessing what it may be in 06, I do notice that the current U-20 team has only one player, The Cartographer (Mapp) who might project into the senior squad in the future and he has a way too go. (Barclay is even further removed and the guy from Charlton- who here knows?) So depth here is an issue potentially. Let's just hope that most of the big injuries are behind us.
In terms of 2006, albeit speculative, I wouldn't be surprised to see Freddy line up at right midfield like Donovan did in this Cup. If he has a year or two of pro experience and develops exponentially in a small amount of time as Donovan and Beasley did, his inclusion here wouldn't surprise. It's the right place to play a young, relatively inexperienced player with outstanding skills and athleticism even if his ultimate position will be in the center midfield or at forward. Ultimately, we'll have different people play here based on injuries and game specific tactics. I expect Olsen will play the same role Cobi did in this Cup -- gritty veteran who works hard and brings leadership skills.
The Cartographer. LOL. I like it. How about Quaranta on the right wing? He could be our version of Spain's Joaquin -- big, fast, and good on the dribble.
I agree. Shouldnt we be talking about a team in preperation for the WCQ, rather than the WC finals? Dont put the cart before the horse.
Man I've been saying that for almost a year unfortunatly he isn't as good as Joaquin (at least not from what I've seen so far from Santino). But I do think he'll bring more to the table offensivly than Olsen. And he is big enough, fast enough, (tough enough?) to play D.
Lloyd Sam Good call, thacharger. His name, however, is Lloyd Sam. Apparently he has great potential, already getting occassional time for the Charlton Reserves. No idea if he has any interest in playing for the USA. As best I can tell, he's never played for England. I assume he's eligible for them, too, although I don't know that for sure. With England and USA in the U-20 WC in UAE next year, perhaps he will turn up there.
We often play without wings or sometimes with just one in an asymmetric sort of formation. Our eight best mids (when all healthy) are probably: Reyna, JOB, Donovan, DMB, Mastroeni, Convey, Olsen, Armas. Only two of them: DMB and Olsen can be classified as conventional wingers. Given our personnel, our optimal midfield seems to be more of a box midfield than a diamond.
actually he isn't an out and out LB for Ajax. Remember, they play "total football". And he was forced into different postions for USA because of injury and the breakout of DaMarcus Beasley