Help me fall in love with Oranje

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by El Steve, May 29, 2008.

  1. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Basically, with the Euros around the corner, I'm looking for a team to follow and I've found myself very intrigued by the Dutch game.

    However, in trying to educate myself more, I've found that Wikipedia and Youtube aren't quite enough. I tried to watch the friendly with Denmark on Sopcast, but couldn't get a good enough feed rolling.

    I've had no success trying to pull up torrents of old games (from the 70s - recent) and any book I order online is going to take a couple weeks to get here.

    What I'm really looking for:

    A) A crash course on Dutch style. I've been trying to read on 'Total Football', as the team is always associated with that... but also know that the team has moved on from that. Still seems to be a fluid, attacking style... more info would be wonderful.

    B) Someone to give me a great sales pitch on what the best thing about following the Netherlands is and why someone should be drawn to them over other sides.

    C) Anything else that would be relevant and helpful to me.

    It might sound like a lot... but I'm kind of plunging into the Dutch game. I know the basics about the Eredivisie, what clubs do what... names, things like that...

    This can be done with links things to read, videos... things that people on this board, fans, love and I might love too.

    Thanks for any help in advance.
     
  2. AFCA

    AFCA Member

    Jul 16, 2002
    X X X rated
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Concerning the Dutch NT, you've come to the right place.

    Does the word Banzai ring a bell? Currently we are employing a 4-2-3-1 system which leaves us with a minimum of 4 offensive players and the possibility to field 6.

    Could you be more specific?

    I'm sure you can find the game against Denmark somewhere on youtube.
     
  3. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not so much looking for highlights... I can look up the Azeri (not to hate on any Azerbaijan fans here) national team and probably find some nice looking goals. I'm looking for more of a current mentality... like, Italian national team is known for playing ultra-tight defense, the English for tenacity, the Brazillians for everything else...

    From what I know, as admittedly still educating myself on the game for the past six-seven years, the Netherlands plays an offensive style and produces a lot of players with talent and tactical prowess. For a nation of such small size, you see Dutch players on all the best teams in all of the big leagues.

    The stats say otherwise about the offensive style recently... at least during qualifying and recent results. But, I didn't actually watch any of the games so I wouldn't really know.

    Reading about the old Total Football and just kind of glancing over different rosters and Dutch players... noting the fact that the Eredivise always leads Europe in goals per game. It just seems like a great style of soccer to watch and enjoy.

    Basically, I just kind of want to know what makes everyone proud to be an Oranje fan as well as basic info on tactics (like you provided with the 4-2-3-1, which seems like a change of pace from previous years), underrated players, overrated players... none of this is NECESSARY... just, if you were trying to get a friend of yours turned onto the national team, what would you tell them?

    It's not like I don't know ANYTHING about the Netherlands... I just want to know more than my passive knowledge allows me.

    I know these couple posts have kind of been going everywhere and aren't very focused... I just don't want to leave anything out :eek:
     
  4. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    Find a video of the Dutch goal against Denmark in the game last night - you won't have any trouble loving Dutch football after you've seen that. At Euro 2008 you'll find a Dutch national team that I expect has gone back to its roots, i.e. that tries to play free-flowing, attacking football with players taking over each other's positions all the time and intelligent one-touch football. If you like that type of thing and don't mind the occassional defensive blundering that inevitably comes with it, then Holland's your choice.

    Mind you, overall I'm not a big fan of convincing people to like/love a specific national team. You should support a side that for some reason you're emotionally attached to (preferably your own national team or local team).
     
  5. feyenoord_for_life

    feyenoord_for_life New Member

    Aug 12, 2007
    Zoetermeer
    yah .. this is a really huge topic. If you can watch the game from last night against the Danes I find that pretty much sums us up haha

    -gorgeous football to watch full of posession, quick passes and tricks
    -star-studed attack
    -half-decent defence
    -bad luck

    just dont invest your heart too much. (cause of the last point)
     
  6. jasperb

    jasperb Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    netherlands
    fixed your post.
     
  7. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If you go on youtube you can find full length games from the 74 WC etc. They're in 9 minute tranches but you can find them. 98 as well

    FIFA.com used to have some of the games as well - watch the 4-0 demolition of Argentina. And the 2-0 win over Brasil, where highly ususual for Brasil, the Brasilians were short on skill but high on thuggery. But Oranje more than matched them in toughness and better skill won out.
     
  8. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USA's still my side. It's my country, I travel to see them when possible and invest my heart in many a tournament with a doomed result... this won't change that.

    I used to be very militant about that... only liking one team, only supporting one. However, I've kind of had a certain epiphany about sports and support over the recent months that really has kind of made me realize that there's no harm in supporting another team that you like for another reason... and a lot of what I've seen about the Netherlands makes me feel like it'd be that team.

    I mean, my heritage is about 3/4ths Italian, I took the language in school and my grandfather almost got kicked out of school because he spoke it, but not English, in 1st grade... but, watching that team play, I can't support them. Heritage or not... I was rooting for France in '06 to beat them.

    The English? Talk about a team and fans that really seem to have no fun at all with what they're doing. Germany along the same lines, but really just seem like an evil machine that closes down hard and grinds out positive results. Brazil and Argentina are too vogue, too celebrated. The Portuguese dive more often and with greater affect than Greg Louganis.

    Just something about Dutch soccer seems (I risk sounding really lame here) almost mystical. One of the smallest nations in Europe but plays with the best and can constantly be considered, maybe not a favorite, but a team with a chance to win any tournament they're in.

    Dutch youth systems constantly churn out incredibly talented players... John O'Brien holds almost mythical status amongst USA supporters for being so technically strong when he was 24 at the '02 World Cup, after going through the Ajax youth set up... he was, basically, tipped as the captain and future of the national team before he had some really bad injury problems.

    He's one of the very few American players to come through a quality, Dutch youth system. Earnie Stewart is another, and he had a fabulous career with our national set up when we were just starting to gain some prominences during the mid-90s, early 200s.

    Dutch coaches are everywhere, coaching in (I'd reckon) every nation, and flying around like mercenaries.

    Seeing Trinidad and Tobago go from bottom of CONCACAF's qualifying table to sneaking in through a playoffs after Leo Beenhakker took control, to actually pulling a point against Sweeden... then watching him qualify Poland for the Euro Championships for the first time ever.

    Then you look at Beenhakker's resume on Wikipedia... TWENTY THREE teams long. You get much of the same from most managers. Twelve for Ten Cate and Hiddink, thirteen for Advocaat.

    Dutch coaches seem to not stay at a club for more than a cup of coffee, either wear out their welcome or want greener pastures, and are welcomed with open arms nearly anywhere they go... and achieve results.

    I mean... I'm not Dutch at all in the physical sense, I'm just impressed with the amount of skilled players and talented managers that are churned out... I just want to learn more about the culture that's able to produce so many quality players and managers from what should be a pretty limited talent pool in terms of size.

    Anyways, I've found seeded tournaments of a couple games in the 74 World Cup (Bulgaria, Uruguay), Euro 88 against England, 98 World Cup against the Netherlands, Euro 08 qualifying against Albania (I think at home), and a Johan Cruyff biography.

    This almost seems like it's becoming a diary for me... not what I'm going for. I'll leave out the responses for a little while and hope for some gold in here.

    Again, thanks for any help in advance.

    I think I could handle that :p. Care to go into more detail about the bad luck? Referring to some of the times that I've seen Dutch sides lose on PKs in big tournaments? The 74 and 78 World Cup Final losses?
     
  9. johan neeskens

    Jan 14, 2004
    We do seem to have a bit of a mystical quality, also judging on the books that have been written about us, we seem to be popular with the intellectuals - on that note can I point out that David Winner's views are Ajax views. They do not offer a fair representation of Dutch football, which is more than Ajax alone, and it's clear that Mr Winner has never set foot outside Amsterdam.

    See that's also the problem with having a certain stature in international football. There's a lot of clichés and untruths about Dutch football and few bother to properly analyse our squad prior to a tournament. Right now, judging on the bookies and on the previews of international newspapers, no-one particularly rates us, for example. Yet if we fail to reach the final, the same people who don't rate us now will label us underachievers after the tournament. Also, the same people who told us prior to Van Basten taking over that we needed to play more realistic, defensive football, were having a go at us for playing realistic defensive football two years on. We can't win!
     
  10. feyenoord_for_life

    feyenoord_for_life New Member

    Aug 12, 2007
    Zoetermeer
    hmmm wow you want examples of bad luck wow ... 2 that immediately shoot to mind: (apologizes in advance to everyone out there)

    1978 - final vs. argentina: game is tied 1-1 and in the final minute of play Rensenbrink (a dutch player) hits the post. Argentina go on to win 3-1. We were a matter of inches away from calling ourselves world champions.

    2000 - semi-final vs. italy: italiens are red-carded earlier and the dutch miss two penalties in regular time. we then go on to lose ironically in penalties.

    If you want more recent memory. 06 against Portugal. with an open net, Cocu rushes his shot and klammers the cross bar .... we alll know how that one ends

    There are so many more sadly, but were trying to look to the future haha. particularly after our recent form which suggests a lot of high scoring games
     
  11. feyenoord_for_life

    feyenoord_for_life New Member

    Aug 12, 2007
    Zoetermeer
    ps. thanks for brushing our ego a little haha. always feels good when the little guy gets his dues haha.
     
  12. FCGrunn

    FCGrunn Member

    Oct 30, 2007
    Groningen
    Club:
    FC Groningen
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Well, it sure seems you have what it takes to root for our team next month!


    Here is why Sir Geoff Hurst is rooting for Holland...(taken from the Guardian May 26th)

    If anyone doesn't know who Geoff Hurst is...SHAME ON YOU!!!


    1 A fantastic team to watch Holland's football is admired all over the world. Their philosophy on the game and how it should be played is one I respect and I think many other football fans would say the same. It's all about technique and playing with imagination. In the last European Championships, Greece managed to grind their way to victory, which was a fantastic achievement in the circumstances, but, idealistically, you want to see tournaments won by great teams and great players.

    2 English-based players A lot of Holland's most talented players are based in the Premier League. There will be people like Dirk Kuyt, Ryan Babel, Robin van Persie and Edwin Van der Sar on show in Switzerland and Austria as well as others like Ruud van Nistelrooy and Arjen Robben, who have played in the Premier League in the past. We were also very lucky to see Dennis Bergkamp a few years ago -±a fantastic player and a great role model for the game.

    3 Tulips Tulips are synonymous with Holland and they also remind me of a funny story relating to my wife and her best friend, Rosemary, who sadly is no longer with us. About five or six years ago they decided that they wanted to visit Holland to see the tulips - we all know the song Tulips From Amsterdam - so they paid for an overnight trip. Unfortunately, the morning they arrived, almost the length and breadth of the country, the tops were cut off the tulips. So they were left looking at a load of green stalks for two days.

    4 Johan Cruyff We talk about Pele and Diego Maradona as the best players ever but, during my time, Johan Cruyff was right up there with the top three or four players we have ever seen. I had the opportunity to play against him once for England and I have also played in a couple of friendlies with him. He was so quick and he had this ability to turn and twist away from players with incredible speed. Holland have been blessed with some really great players over the years and, in my opinion, Cruyff was the best of the best.

    5 Nearly team Holland have contributed so much to world football but they've not managed to win the number of tournaments they should have. Their great time was in the 1970s, when Ajax won the European Cup three times. Unfortunately, during that period the national team played World Cup finals in the backyard of two of the great sides, West Germany in 1974 and Argentina in 1978. Holland did win the European Championships in 1988 but there should have been far more silverware. It would be nice to see a genuine footballing nation win the European Championships this summer.

    · Sir Geoff Hurst MBE is McDonald's director of football and spearheads the company's community football coaching programme, which provides children across the UK with more access to qualified coaching. He was talking to Stuart James. Tomorrow: Lembit Opik pins his colours to Romania's mast.
     
  13. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands


  14. Well, all our beaches are topless and during the Euro2008 all the boobies are painted orange:)

    What also counts is that we used to use your cavalry attack tune for an all out attack, with the battle cry "aanvallen!!!" like that of Custers at the Big Horn Creek or something like that. The analogy also fits that we almost never survive that attack
     
  15. DSC05

    DSC05 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    Sold :D
     
  16. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    heh

    you sir, are a marketing genius!
     
  17. A-J-A-X

    A-J-A-X New Member

    Jul 14, 2004
    South London, UK
    England and tenacity?

    Certainly not in the past decade - tenacity would imply that one's hair might get ruined and the photoshoot in OK! would turn out bad... oh the humanity!
     
  18. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aha... Brilliant Oranje was one of the more recommended books I found online. You'd say that it's more of a view from the Ajax perspective than as a whole?

    What would be the main differences in that regard?

    Wow on all of them... but, I heard allusions to this match but didn't know the whole story or see it yet. I think I almost have to now... based on history, you guys must cringe every time someone steps up for a spot kick.

    Thanks guys. I liked that.

    This gives me less of a reason to support since I won't get to enjoy those Dutch beaches:mad:;)

    That actually made me laugh out loud. What would you say is the most often used Dutch supporter's song?


    I think they may be the only team who could put three excellent attack minded players in Gerrard, Lampard, and Beckham in the middle of the field and not have any idea how to play an attacking game around them.

    I think they're almost confused without someone to bust knee caps... Hargreaves is a good, overall step in that direction. But, he's Canadian... he doesn't count.
     
  19. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Now what more could you possibly need?

    orange boobies + Hurst endorsement + 74 Clockwork Oranje + Ruud Gullit's '88 dreads + glorious, doomed charges?
     
  20. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ruud gullit's dreads totally sold me... problem with orange breasts is that i see enough around here from girls hitting the tanning beds too much:eek:
     
  21. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yay!! Welcome aboard the Charge of the Light Brigade!

    Are you a Steelers' fan btw?
     
  22. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eh... technically. It sounds really elitist, but the more I've watched soccer, the less I've liked football. I, honestly, kind of lost interest during the Super Bowl run a few years back... I don't know why. I went to the second home game of the year last season, against the 49ers, and was just kind of bored.

    So, I kind of root for the Steelers... I just think that most of the players on the team right now are kind of scum and I'm not really inspired or motivated to watch games.

    Hockey was always my game, I'll always love it... I'm a huge Penguins fan and dying for the Stanley Cup. Watching both sports has helped me pick up all of the similarities, and there are many, between the two.

    But, I guess if you're from Jerseys, we're foes, right? Or are you one of the many who kind of ignore the Devils? :p
     
  23. windycity

    windycity Member

    Oct 19, 2001
    Where do you think
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I live in Jersey now, lived in Chicago for 11 years (hence the name I use here) and grew up in Montreal. I'm a huge Habs fan, Steelers fan since I was a kid but my 2 favorite sports that I gew up playing are soccer and hockey. Still play footie twice per week in an old man's league and a co-ed league (which, interestingly enough, is not as good as my 0-40 league despite players being considerably younger for the most part).
     
  24. Frieslander

    Frieslander Member
    Staff Member

    Feb 14, 2000
    North Jersey
    I enjoyed the book Brilliant Orange if you're looking for a book about the dutch and their soccer.
     
  25. El Steve

    El Steve Member

    Sep 7, 2004
    Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well at least we have you going along the correct lines. I was a bit confused by someone using the screen name 'windycity' from Jersey, but all is clear now :).

    I was very near buying this, but a poster on the first page told me this was, basically, just a compliment towards Ajax's style... so, I remain slightly unconvinced.
     

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