-- from the beeb today: I'll admit to knowing as much about Heinze as I did Dong when we signed him...
I dont know much of him either, but I didn't know much of Ronaldo before he signed for us.(except in Championship Manager, he was a God in that game) If Argentina called him up then he must be good.
Heinze is tall strong powerful and very commanding of his area regarding CB positioning. He's a good signing, but a gamble, not the proven talent I wanted to partner Rio. Not in terms of ability, but in regard to experience and world renound ability. Heinze is a very good signing. Even tho I would love to see Rio partnered with an Ayala, Lucio or Nesta I can definitely see why Heinze was taken. 8/10 buy.
Interesting. The day before we play a French Cup Final, there's a blurb on the BBC website that Heinze is gone to your club. I hope like hell it isn't true. You guys pulled the same stunt last spring during our French Cup run for Ronaldinho and we saw what happened then. By the way, Heinze is better than your other defenders and as good as Rio and maybe better. He also plays a starting role for Argentina. If you did sign him, you're club is very lucky. Fonsos Coupe de France Finale Stade de France 29 Mai 2004 PSG - Chateauroux Allez PSG
What a nice font you have there Rio is a proven Defender on the World stage, Heinze is not so you cannot gauge how good Heinze is playing in the French league opposed to Rio who plays in World Cups, Champions Leagues and against the likes of Henry and Owen in his league.
Have watched him several times this year on the tele. Has definitely outgrown the French League. Will he take the next step up? Time will tell, but he has all of the qualities. If he works out, there is depth at back, if not the club still has who they have (not bad when healthy or playing). Physically, he should adjust to the P'ship from what I have seen. Big, strong, fast and decisive. Let's see if has the will. Better signing than all of last years field players (sans Ronaldo) from what I have seen. A good piece of the puzzle.
From what I know of Heinze, he's highly regarded in the French league, but is just starting to break into the Argentine side. Not as fast as a lot of other defenders, but plays the ball very well and marks players tightly. I look forward to seeing him at the club.
It's interesting to read that we're ready to sign Heinze from PSG after last year's fiasco dealing with PSG over Ronaldinho. Didnt the PSG chairman tell everyone that he would never deal with United or word to that affect?
Argh. I used to think otherwise, but speed has become one of my favorite attributes for a defender, right after positioning and aerial ability. Ferdinand is fast. He can make up for his mistakes. John Terry is not fast and cannot make any mistakes. That's why Ferdinand is a better defender than Terry, despite all Terry's superiority in certain other matters.
Oh I agree that speed is very important to a defender, which is why I had pointed it out. Players in the Premiership can blow you by if you don't keep up. Still I'd rather have a slow defender who marked and tackled well than one with just speed. And from what I'm hearing, he makes quick decisions in the box, but isn't so good at getting up and down the field. I suppose that would be more of a problem if he was playing for Ajax in 1973, but hopefully we can cope.
Yes that's a good point and its the reason I'm not ready to call this a done deal until I see him standing at the press conference wearing our shirt. As for what a chairman says, they'll try to say anything to make themselves look good to the fans, but when the ££s start calling, its not a tough decision.
Having seen Rio playing since his days at West Ham, I'm more than qualified to make the statement. I'm watching Man Utd matches on a regular basis in addition to PSG matches and I stand by my remarks. Here's the deal. Think of Makele as a defender and that's what you have in Heinze. He can run with the attack and always gets back into position. Play him on the wing and he can shut down that entire side. Heinze is top man at PSG and will be missed. This is when I truly dislike the French Tax system. 55% is killing us and not for that, he and a number of other players from Ligue 1 would more than likely stay put. Rio hasn't exactly lit it up on the World stage, so you may want to stay away from those remarks. Fonsos Coupe de France Finale Stade de France 29 Mai 2004 PSG - Chateauroux Allez PSG
The French league does not have the strength of a top 3 league from top to bottom so a player that is there is still somehwat untested. Doing fabolus things in a smaller league is very different to doing fabulos things when some of the best player in Europe are breathing down your neck! Therefore Heintze is still untested and an unknown quantity in respect to Europe or a bigger league. PSG did not do anything in Europe so that immediately puts him as a more questionable quantity then Giuly or Rothen who have shown what they can do against some great teams this year. There is nothing to guage Heintze on in the big picture and so it is more than premature to be saying he is 'better than Rio' As for the World Cup Rio looked very strong in 02 and was certainly a match for all his opponents so I am perfectly positioned to make 'remarks' about it. Clearly the idea is to pair a fast, distributor-type with a solid partner so if those two hit it off we will be made all the stronger for it.
Sorry, but as Dark Savante said, Heinze hasn't proven anything on the big stage. Rio has. I too have watched Rio from West Ham all the way to Man Utd and face it, Rio is a beast of a defender, the ideal defender, with ball skills of a midfielder, strength, heading and tackling of a defender...Heinze is no match, sorry. I've once seen a player hit a long shot that lobbed the West Ham keeper, Rio ran from all the way backk, and with a diving header cleared the ball off the line, almost colliding with the post in the process...no match.
Sounds like the makings of another thread. Strange how unproven players from this league have fared rather well in the Great EPL. Henry via his spell in Italy, Saha, Pires, Viera,Wiltord, Barthez and a certain Eric Cantona all are products of this league that have done rather well in the EPL. Hell, Silvestre came over practically as a kid when you guys got him. By the way, EPL isn't a top 3 league. Spain, Italy and Germany have those spots and the EPL is ahead of Ligue 1 due primarily to Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea. Take those three away and you have a league just below Ligue 1. Fonsos Coupe de France Finale Stade de France 29 Mai 2004 PSG - Chateauroux Allez PSG
Fonsos, thanks for your analysis on Heinze, as I'd been waiting to see what PSG fans thought of him. And yes, its true that there have been many great French players in England. However, having watched a fair amount of the French league, I can't think that just because a player does well there, it means he will succeed in England. Sure there are plenty of success stories, but for every Cantona, Henry, or Pires, there are going to be a couple of guys who can't prove themselves in a league that moves that much faster and is that much tougher, with keepers, defenders, and strikers who are that much better. The fact that Heinze didn't gel in Spain or Portugal gives me just a bit of doubt, but I hope he's settled down. In terms of the competition you see each week, the English Premiership is right there with La Liga, IMO. Serie A might have great teams at the top, but the bottom of the table is completely different. I also wouldn't put the Bundesliga into the top three, especially with their poor European showing. With World Cup qualifiers coming this summer, I'll be sure to keep an eye on Heinze, to see how he performs on that kind of a stage.
How many players from England go abroad and do well? Very few and notice the lack of talk from mainland European clubs in regards to going after talent in England? EPL is no where near La Liga. Serie A and Bundesliga are still ahead of the EPL. Based on what you stated about the Bundesliga's poor showing in Europe then Ligue 1 are ahead of the EPL. I mean OM beat two English teams and they finished 7th in Ligue 1 and are not considered a good French side this season. Monaco beat Chelski. You guys are getting a very good defender who can also score as part of the attack. He also has great leadership skills. A+, Fonsos
This thread is fast becoming a pissing match.... But, as for English players not going abroad, why would they take the pay cut?
How many Italians go abroad and do well? That doesn't make them lesser quality players does it? English players are better suited to the English game, as the Italian players are suited to the game in Italy. Being able to play abroad shouldn't determine how good they are, so your point there, well, isn't that great a point.
I have also never seen him play thogh i was hoping Sir Alex was going to make a bid on Matteo Ferrari of Parma. I know he was at one of their games in the recent months and there was a lot of talk about Alberto Gilardino though i realy beleive Sir Alex was there to watch Matteo Ferrari.
Lord. When evaluating leagues' performance, please restrict it to an analysis of overall performance in Europe over a minimum 5 year period. The sample size is simply too small in any given season. A couple of years ago, you'd have given the Italians up for dead. This year, the Bundesliga was terrible in Europe. If you want to match the 5 year record of Ligue 1 against the 5 year record of the EPL, please do so. I imagine you wouldn't like the result.
In general a player who does well in England has no incentive to go to another league. This is especially true for British players who are not renowned for their love of foreign cultures. Most players who excel in France will eventually move to 1 of the bigger leagues to make more money. I have a general dislike for Argentine players and I don't think I have ever seen Heinz play. I would love to have a defender who really punishes attackers with hard tackles.