I haven't been here for a long long time but I wanted to come to you political gurus at BigSoccer to pose a couple of controversial questions. As you all may have heard/read/seen by now, a 17 year old non-resident alien (some will say "illegal") from the state of Jalsico, Mexico received a heart/lung transplant at Duke University hospital. The life-saving surgery was complicated by the transplantation of organs not matching the recipients ABO type. A second set of organs were found just days later and she was reimplanted, but due to the massive assualt her body took due to the first rejection, she ended up brain dead and in multi-system organ failure. Life support was withdrawn and the young girl died yesterday (2/22). According to press statements, when the family of the deceased girl was approached for donation of their daughter's organs, they rejected the idea. This surgery did not cost the tax-payers a single dime. A foundation was set up for this very purpose and to pay for the surgery and subsequent recovery. What I would like to know is what are individual's feelings about: 1. Organ transplant for non-resident aliens (no matter where they're from) in this country (the US)? 2. The family's reluctance to donate the organs of their daughter? (When answering this question, remember that her body took a massive assault by the first rejection, it is doubtful that any of her organs were viable, including her skin, cornea, and bone, but I can't say for sure because I only know what I have read and heard in the press...I can only speak from my experiential knowledge**.) 3. The family's power of attorney, Mack Mahoney? 4. A possible lawsuit? **I work in one of three hospitals in my area that performs exactly these types of relatively rare transplants. I work specifically in a cardiothoracic ICU that receives heart/lung transplants directly from the operating room. One of my roles as an RN there is to be part of the team who recovers and ensures continued stability of the patient following surgery. Needless to say, I am hugely supportive of organ donation. I have been spending my days lately at a message board devoted almost exclusively to nursing...it's set up much like this one. There are a couple of threads there discussing this very topic and I was SHOCKED at some of the views that people in my own profession have regarding this stiuation. I came here to see what the views are of people who maybe don't have a medical background. Here are some links to give some background on a couple of the questions I asked: Jesica's Hope Chest http://4jhc.org/jesicastory.html More on Jesica's Hope Chest http://www.4jhc.org/mediapage.html UNOS policies and bylaws http://www.unos.org/policiesandbylaws/policies.asp?whatWeDo=true One article on Mack Mahoney http://news-observer.com/front/story/2230616p-2104210c.html Thanks for any replies and I'm not here to debate the issue, I'm just trying to feel the pulse of a different group.
I have no problem with illegals getting organ donations in the US, but only if there are no US citizen or legal immigrants that the organs could go to. Since this is almost certainly not the case, this girl should have been sent to a hospital back in Mexico, along with her family. Alex
One more added tidbit: Mexico does not have the technology to perform this particular type of transplant nor the resources to support a recovery.
If you're a rich Mexican parent, you get to fly your daughter into Houston for a heart and lung transplant. If you're a poor Mexican, and are resourceful enough, you leave everything behind to sneak your daughter across the border and then spend five years lobbying charities. After having a cruel twist of fate steal from you what should have been the miracle of your daughter's salvation, then you throw your hands in the air and laugh at 18-year-old dumbass white boys who found something in your tragedy to be morally indignant about.
I can see no reason why this should not be allowed. This irks me. Actually, in general, this specific family irks me. Willing to try and save their daughter with a heart-lung transplant, then saying they won't remove her from life-support because "it's in God's hands". Whatever. I'm appalled - regardless of the likelyhood that useful organs might still exist - that the family didn't even let the doctors try. Very hypocritical. ? It seems to me like their might be grounds - even tho IMO it feels a little tacky to sue. What bothers me more about this is the fact that since someone messed up someone else might have been deprived of a chance at a heart-lung transplant.
> After having a cruel twist of fate steal from you > what should have been the miracle of your > daughter's salvation... That's the nature of being poor and powerless. If being rich and powerful didn't give you benefits, no one would try to get or stay rich. There are thousands of people living on a garbage heap near Manila. In an equivalent situation, they wouldn't have the luxury of knowing why their daughter is sick, let alone a chance for a cure. There are millions of children in Ethiopia right now who scratch the ground for a few kernels of grain. They would think a day of hospital food the greatest gift imaginable. The whole world is a cesspool of suffering. Fairness does not exist, and it would be hurfull if excessive fairness did exist. If you took Bill Gates' whole fortune and spread it to each US citizen, each would almost get enough money to buy season 7 of Star Trek:The Next Generation on DVD from Amazon. Would that really help things? If you want to live well, you have to concentrate the goodness of the world in one place.
What did I post to deserve this pre-school sermon on the relativity of poverty? I mean, I lived in the third world for years. I've seen what you've only read about. I know you haven't been around the world much, but there's lots of really good places out there. Check them out.
You were talking about a cruel twist of fate and you were rebutting Alex's comments about preserving organs for those legally here. I'm not sure how else I was supposed to take that. I agree with Alex. Even if his comments came across as harsh, I don't see how feeling bad about it is going to change anything real.
Hey, that girl's family got her here, and found someone willing to pony up the money to pay for the operation. I can find no ethical reason justifying denying her said procedure. Saying that citizens and legal immigrants should have priority over illegals is just one slender step away from saying whites should have priority over blacks, for example. I do think the prioritization algorithm is fucked, but it has nothing to do with the citizenship of the recipient. By choosing the "worst" candidates, they might be denying someone who might have a better chance of survival. Those with the best long-term prognosis should get the organs first. Period. This girl probably shouldn't have gotten a second shot at it.
There are a limited number of organs and this Mexican came up here and fought and got one for her daughter. That's what's "real." You and Alex can spare me your romanticized moral indignation trip. This country demands that millions upon millions of illegal aliens cross the borders to take our low-paying jobs. It's a big part of what makes our economy run. You and Alex gladly benefit from it. But the minute one of them grabs an organ, you suddenly get picky about who belongs here and who doesn't. So spare me your (choose one now) ignorance/hypocrisy.
This is an excellent point. The algorithm does throw out the window all principles of triage. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, just a good point.
From the FFA thread about the topic: http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20030223/D7PCC7202.html Her immigration status played no role because hospitals may place non-U.S. citizens on their waiting lists and must give them the same priority as citizens, said Anne Paschke, spokeswoman for the organ network. But they cannot perform more than 5 percent of their transplants on non-citizens. So don't worry about your precious American organs going to support some poor immigrant kid. There's already a limit on it. And some foundation picked up the cost. The second set of organs was apparently a direct donation from the donor's next of kin to the girl. So stop your bitching. Worry about the doctors' massive cock-up. That's liable to cost the taxpayer's and patients much more money in the long run. She was a sick kid who needed a transplant. I can't see getting all worked up over the illegal immigrant angle on this one. May she rest in peace.
> You and Alex can spare me your romanticized > moral indignation trip. This country demands that > millions upon millions of illegal aliens cross the > borders to take our low-paying jobs. It's a big > part of what makes our economy run. You and > Alex gladly benefit from it. But the minute one of > them grabs an organ, you suddenly get picky > about who belongs here and who doesn't. What, so the fact that we need them to work here means they also get all the benefits of America? What does it even mean to be a citizen if that is the case? From the articles I read, these people weren't even illegal workers - they came to America only for health care.
Since when is healthcare an American benefit? I've lost my American Benefits Handbook. Maybe you're arguing for a nationalized healthcare, since all Americans by being American deserve quality healthcare? Now I think I have a better understanding of your need to invent benefits for yourself. So if you're here illegally working, then you get healthcare, but not if you're here illegally getting healthcare? What a policy wonk you are.
Cute sound-bite. Still tastes like crap. Good thing you're here to tell hispanics how they should feel about coming to the US. They should be so fuggin grateful that they better not dare have an opinion about immigration. Is that white arrogance or just Texas arrogance?
Oh dear Mike, you siwwy wabbit. We do not respirate (ha! made you lisp) people we ventilate them. Hence the use of ventilators. Care to share your opinion on this topic?
The only problem I have is with the girl's family's unwillingness to donate her organs. Everything else appears to be on the up and up. I just see a huge pay day for her family. I don't know what the legal ramifications are, but I have to assume that they are going to sue the hell out of the doctor and hospitol. They will probably get a settlement and go back to Mexico and live like kings. Sad but true.
Oooo, more than happy. I actually agree with you on all points. Some say the POA will take this further, being an insider and more familiar with the law, than it needs to go specifically in regard to a lawsuit. Some say that he will do it just to profit himself from litigation. I say poppycock, but what I'm looking for is other's points of view. Be careful now MS, your humanitarian side is showing!! edited to add: except I disagree with the statement about how people with no children blah blah blah.
I bet they get a huge settlement. Duke doesn't want this to go to trial, having already admitted fault. The publicity that would accompany a trial would not be good at all.