Health Care Reform Part III: The Implementation.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    The rate increases is old news.
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Team red party of koch suckers and wingnuts..

    I pick the lesser of the two evils...
     
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  3. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    And, seriously, what the ******** did people actually, honestly believe could be achieved in the space of several years? The Revolution? The ACA is a step in the right direction, which is no small potatoes when looked at the context of our ********ed up political system, our broken system of healthcare, and absolutely anything that would have been done by the political opposition. This is a process. If, over the next decade, the uninsured rate comes way down, but we're still paying more than they do in other countries, well, that'll suck. But it'll suck less than having 35-40 million people uninsured, and millions of others with half-assed insurance.

    If, over time, society evolves to the point that it can seriously debate the merit of a single- or multi-payer system, implementation of the ACA will have been the first step in that process. I don't expect it to happen any time soon. But if you're not willing to work - over a period of years, perhaps decades - toward the goal of truly universal coverage, and would rather just sit back and bitch about the things the ACA doesn't do, well, you're doing next to nothing to really improve healthcare in this country.
     
  4. ToasterLeavins

    Mar 25, 2003
    NJ USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    How about getting to keep their plans for starters? Like was promised.

    Im being snarky for the most part, but the cheerleading in this thread by posters like dapip, superdave, and brummie is comical considering how meaningless these numbers appear to be at this point. There's just not enough quantifiable information yet.

    A bit like saying mission accomplished after the Iraq invasion was over, while knowing that theres still going to be an insurrection against occupying forces for 10+ years during which Americans will still continue to be killed, and the outcome still remains very much in doubt. Don't ya think?
     
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I doubt anyone is saying mission accomplished, they are just making fun of the people that predicted a meltdown of the ACA by this point, and just like at almost every prior step, they have been wrong, the ACA as imperfect as it is, it keeps chugging along.
     
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  6. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Given that many of these plans leave people woefully under insured and a goal of the ACA is to make sure that doesn't happen, this is a "promise that shouldn't be kept".
     
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  7. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Kingston Stockade
    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Don't fall off that high horse if you have a big deductible.

    At the end of the day, we gifted the insurance companies millions of new suckers customers in exchange for a couple of tiny tweaks to the worst alleged healthcare system in the developed world. We've further enriched and entrenched the bad guys and simultaneously guaranteed that there will be no reform for a generation at least. That's a deal we shouldn't have made.

    Another part that I'm still troubled by was the way the negotiation went down. If the Democrats had fought hard for actual, meaningful reform and compromised in the middle I probably wouldn't begrudge them what they ended up with. But they showed up to the battle with the white flag leading the charge and then settled on the Republican plan. I just still find it disappointing that this was the first opportunity in my lifetime to see real improvement and they gave it away for a bread sandwich.
     
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've never claimed that any policy is panacea. I very much relish the fact that the conservatives on this thread cannot stop being wrong. You can't do it. Many conservatives on this thread would predict a sunrise in the West just to spite the truth. It's a shame but don't dare deprive me my schadenfreude.
     
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  9. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I don't recall anyone opposed to ObamaCare make any predictions at all. Instead, we have pointed out the problems in the law. You are the one who has put together your own score card.
     
  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I posted about this a few days ago...it's less than a million people.
     
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  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Stupidly phrased promise. Should have been "If your plan meets the new ACA guidelines and you like it, you can keep it".

    I wouldn't trust any conservative with numbers. There is enough information to know that the goals (as arbitrary as they are) have been met. Unskew them if you want.

    Apples to very bloddy unnecessary and foreseable catastrophic oranges. The ACA at worst will decrease the numbers of uninsured people and tame the healthcare costs spiral. And the outcome for both events was predicted correctly by people in one party and incorrectly by people in the other.

    Before ACA 45 or 50 million people was uninsured and probably a similar amount was likely woefully underinsured. Improving some people lives in the short run, even if it is not 100% of the target population and it is not to the maximum possible extent is better than the status quo. I agree with you that Democrats could have extracted a little more from the law but probably not much (have you forgotten how conservatives have oppossed the ACA?).

    Now, from a vantage point, we know (and as with many other aspects of the American democracy) that there are better (as in more efficient and economical) ways, but they're not happening right away. Hopefully in the not so distant future demographics tilt the balance of power enough to the left that we can do the logical and humane things that are not only good for us from an economic point of view but that make the world better. In the meanwhile I will take the small improvements over uncompromising idealistic positions.
     
  12. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2737 Minnman, Apr 3, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    About those cancelled plans... Look, I'm not, and never will be an elected official, so let me me blunt. I don't give a shit. I agree, the Pres at best told a half-truth. Lie of the year? Whatever. As has been widely reported, 17% of health insurance policies are cancelled every year in this country. Millions of Americans are forced to change policies every year simply because it's a feature that's built into our system. Shit, the policy I had last year was cancelled by my insurance company, forcing me to choose a different one, and it has shit-all to do with the ACA.

    Welcome to America.
     
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  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Have you met VFish? :)
     
  14. ToasterLeavins

    Mar 25, 2003
    NJ USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    The keeping plans comment was mostly snark as I said in the coment, I undestand the context. Those plans were shit, but it was still a promise. I didnt think it would cause the circle jerk thats been this thread for the last 4 pages or so to derail... :D

    Anyway, from my admittedly limited understanding of healthcare it's confusing as shit. What's the difference between people who have "enrolled" or just "signed up"? What's the difference between the number of people who have enrolled, but actually have coverage? Do any of these numbers and charts reflect these accurately? How many of these people have paid their premiums? What is the proportion of sick, costly subscribers to healthy, low-cost customers? I know some of this stuff will be answered as time goes forward... and hopefully the answers will be good. At this point we are committed to Obamacare... I sincerely hope it works as intended. Im just not ready to brand it a success yet.
     
  15. ToasterLeavins

    Mar 25, 2003
    NJ USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    I very much relish how you can't deal with people unless youve attached some preconceived label to them so they fit into your orderly view of the world. I dont really care that you call me a conservative, but for the record I am pro-legalization, completly for ending the drug war, eliminating mandatory minimum sentences, adjusting our drug laws so they arent disporportionally targeting and affecting minorities, favor an across the board handgun ban for civilians, pro gay marriage, pro all branches of stem cell research, and on top of that I would favor a drastically reduced military budget. Ohh yea I'm also an Agnostic Atheist and believe there's just as much validity to worshiping the flying spaghetti monster as there is any of the other major institutionalized religions.

    But other than that, yep, hardcore conservative. You got me.
     
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  16. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I will assume you have read the law and insurance companies can no longer change what they offer. If not, that feature is more entrenched in our system.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, what?
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ?? I am unclear as to how something that is already a common practice in an industry can become more entrenched due to a law that doesn't address that practice.
     
  19. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    It's 7 million more entrenched.
     
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a particular reason why you think insurance companies modifying their plans is a bad thing?
     
  21. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I don't trust insurance companies. I've always thought insurance companies are the health care crisis and giving people a choice of buying a plan or pay a fine or face the IRS is not good public policy. I don't believe insurance equals health care and would have liked to have seen a public option from this law. But donors money is heard more than BigSoccer posters.
     
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  22. ToasterLeavins

    Mar 25, 2003
    NJ USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

    "Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deityis either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known."
     
  23. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Brummie's list isn't a collection of my predictions, it is his own creation he trots out counter simple observations like without a breakdown of the demographics the administration's numbers are meaningless. The administration needs to answer basic questions like how many of the "7 million" enrollees have paid? How many were previously uninsured? What is the breakdown of young and healthy vs older and ill? Until the administration gives us this data it hard to read much into the enrollment #s.
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What are your thoughts on the millions of people that signed up for insurance outside of the exchanges? Should those numbers be included in the overall ACA number, or do you only count those that went through the exchanges?

    While there is certainly going to be people that haven't paid their first bill, is there an acceptable percentage of non-payments, or does it have to be 100% payment or else the law is a failure? Additionally, what about people that make their first payment, but fail to make a future payment? Should the Administration keep a rolling count and deduct these people from the total number?
     
  25. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Meanwhile, as enrollment numbers are championed, argued, made up, there are millions upon millions of people who are not able to get affordable health care, even those who have gone through the exchanges.
     

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