Health Care Reform Part III: The Implementation.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Nov 14, 2013.

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  1. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    You didn't answer my question... How are you going to get towards universal coverage without some kind of redistribution?
     
  2. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    By stop treating health care as prepaid healthcare and making health insurance a free market commodity. But ObamaCare goes in the opposite direction, so that solution is off the table.

    I have to work within the idiotic confines you guys impose.
     
  3. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1396124062.200235.jpg
     
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  4. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, what? Um, yes, I agree, the law prevents this so without the law she would have acted differently. QED.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
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  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  10. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Well, but Veefish claims he was promised they'd go down...:barefoot:
     
  11. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    What were rate increases the three years previous?
     
  12. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there's one thing history has show us is that when health care is a free market commodity, prices go up, out of pocket expenses continue to rise and services go down.

    The free market is a failure when it comes to health care in the US, an abysmal failure.
     
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  13. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you know how to google?
     
  14. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Regardless of which side of the ACA you are on, that statement is wrong. Very, very wrong. We simply do not know what happens in todays economy with a free market healthcare system. We do know the third party payer system that ACA was specifically designed to save is a cluster frick though.

    When was the last time we saw a free market in regards toUS healthcare or insurerers? Pre- ACA healthcare insurers had regionally protected areas which made for a de-facto monopoly in those regions since competition was restrcicted. Restricted competition is not a free market.
     
  15. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Google is the internet wing of Obama's propaganda office.
     
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  16. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    This seems like data cherry-picking to me. Rate increases fluctuate all over the place. I think that for it to be a success, it would stay even with inflation, or about 3-5%.

    It does seem likely that a lot of insurance companies would increase rates and blame it on Obama. They've been threatening that for years.

    Here's a PBS article that seems a little more even-keeled.
     
  17. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I think it would be more difficult to make healthcare a true free market than single-payer. Just an opinion, and not advocating either way here.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't completely deregulate the provider side. Unless you're a strict libertarian, which most of us aren't.

    However, you CAN lighten regulation a huge amount...let nurses and PAs do more, for example. Change patent regs on prescription drugs. And a real big one...get regulation of the supply of doctors out of the hands of doctors.

    Of course, the GOPs oppose any moves by Dems to do that. Because GOPs are whores for the rich.
    Seriously, any time you see the GOPs doing something that is against what they purport to be their philosophy, ask yourself, if the GOP philosophy is to side with the 1% in class warfare, does this action make sense?

    At that point, GOP positions on issues cease to be contradictory.
     
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  19. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Kingston Stockade
    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    In the US, that's true. But there are places where the healthcare system is market-based. Guatemala, for example, has a completely market-based system and while the care itself is generally good (if you can afford it) most people can't afford it. And so there are huge segments of the population that have little or no access. While it's true that Guatemala is a much, much poorer country than the USA it's not in any way a system that we should be trying to emulate.
     
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  20. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on how the free market has worked in other industries in this country, it's not wrong at all.
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    If health insurance were a completely "free market commodity" why would they insure the sick?
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. Welcome back!!! Where ya been?
    2. I always respond to this critique with the Socratic method.

    Q. Compared to the rest of the developed world, how does the US' health care system rate?
    A. It is arguably the worst, and inarguably among the worst when you consider outcomes and cost.
    Q. Compared to the rest of the developed world, is the US' health care system more or less free market than is the norm?
    A. The US' system is more free market than the norm.
    Q. So how likely is it that there's a correlation for the US between MORE free market and WORST system, but that the US would improve by becoming even more free market oriented?
    A. It is very unlikely, and the burden of proof really should be on those arguing that the problem with the US healthcare system is that it's not free market enough.
     
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  23. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  24. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Besides, it is kind of stupid to try to do things in a different way when the best solution has already been achieved (Single Payer or very close to it). But, hey, that is the American way!
     
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  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    But how many of them have paid? huh?
    How many of them are healthy under 30 y.o.? huh? huh?
    How many are really newly insured people? huh? huh? huh?
    How much will the premiums rise in 2015? huh? huh? huh? huh?

    Bet you can't answer those questions. ACA is a debacle and we will see the law repealed or collapse shortly.
     
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