Have to change the qualifying

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Big balls, Apr 4, 2009.

  1. Big balls

    Big balls Member

    May 22, 2006
    Sweden
    The qualifying for the WC has to be changed. The WC is the biggest event in the world so a dose a of realism would be welcome.

    In Europe, only the No.1 can qualify directly, so from a few groups, you're gonna have to place ahead of Germany, Italy, England, Spain, France, Portugal (Portugal which Sweden just put behind them) in a grueling qualifying campaign, while USA, Mexico and Asia just stroll through it year after year. Qualifying automatically after beating barbados and whatever minor resort.

    Mexico has finally fired SGE after losing and/or drawing to several tropical islands, the crazy thing is, they STILL can qualify for the WC.

    I understand it's a WC and the world should be represented but I think the world should duke it out in the future. The WC QF should indeed be a qualifying division amongst the world.


    Hell lets puts Japan, Australia, USA, Mexico in with Argentina, Brazil, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Germany, Italy, Spain and France, pot 1. It would be awesome comparing to what we have to deal with it now.


    Whatever happens, the European qualifying division has to become more fair.
     
  2. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well, but it is the WORLD Cup, so there should be teams from all over the world.
    With 32 teams there's no way that UEFA gets more than 13-15 berths. So in order to get more berths we need to have more teams at the final tournament. Well that's impossible, because the next good number is 64, which is way too much.
     
  3. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    The UEFA qualifying system will always lead to some good teams missing out and some not so good teams qualifying because of the draw system they use. By having only one round of qualifiers it places a lot of emphasis on the luck of the draw. You may wonder at how Mexico can lose two matches in their current group and still have a chance at qualifying, but its simply that North America has a much better system in determining the best teams. CONCACAF has gone through several rounds of qualifiers to come up with its final group, where the best teams play each other to determine the top 3. Mexico may have had a couple of poor games, but the fact they have won through this far still puts them in the top group. UEFA could do this as well, with preliminary rounds to narrow the final groups down to 4 groups of 6 with 3 qualifying from each group.
     
  4. Erwin6174

    Erwin6174 Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    The Netherlands
    I don't disagree with you, but in a perfect world, the world champion should be able to beat any team, thus it shouldn't matter in what qualifying group they start. Realistically speaking though, just making it to the final 32 is a goal in and of itself for most if not all countries, so in that respect it indeed is not very fair that some countries get an easy ride while others have to first beat potential world champions.

    I'd be all for more qualifying games in Europe, especially since right now we only get to watch our national teams play a few games a year when there's no European or World Cup going on.
     
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The UEFA should adopt a system similar to CONCACAF and the OFC: out of the 53 teams, make the minnows (16 teams) play a preliminary round, 4 groups of 4, with the top 4 qualifying for the second round.

    In the second round, add the 13 second tier teams and again play 3 groups of 4 and 1 group of 5, with 4 qualifying for the final round.

    The third and final round, with the best 24 teams plus the 4 qualified from the second round, make 7 groups of 4. The top 2 in each group qualify. Yes, I think UEFA should always have 14.

    Minnows:
    Liechtenstein
    Estonia
    Malta
    Luxembourg
    Montenegro
    Andorra
    Faroe Islands
    San Marino
    Kazakhstan
    Azerbaijan
    Georgia
    Albania
    Armenia
    Moldova
    FYR Macedonia
    Cyprus

    Second Tier:
    Slovenia
    Latvia
    Iceland
    Austria
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Hungary
    Wales
    Belarus
    Lithuania
    Finland
    Bulgaria
    Israel
    Switzerland

    As is, it's unconscionable to have groups like the one where Greece is leading (over powerhouses Switzerland, Latvia, Israel, Luxembourg and Moldova) or the one where Italy reigns supreme (over Republic of Ireland, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Montenegro and Georgia), while in other groups you have England, Croatia and Ukraine or Spain, Turkey and Belgium competing for two spots.
     
  6. MalboroDude

    MalboroDude Member+

    May 31, 2006
    LookingToProperlyIntroduceMyselfToAnIcelandicGirl
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    err… wrong.

    They are at 30% of the qualifying phase. There's still quite bit of a road to follow. And where did the tropical islands' argument came from? :confused: They lost two games. Both against Honduras and the US. Neither of them is a tropical island. It's not crazy to think they can qualify given the fact that you are totally wrong.
     
  7. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    15 sounds good to me.

    I reckon, if Saudi Arabia manage to qualify for a fifth successive finals this time, that Asia should automatically lose a slot. It doesn't add anything to the world cup for the same rubbish teams to be there over and over again.
     
  8. trekky76

    trekky76 Member

    May 31, 2008
    Stockholm
    IMHO
    There are several top teams in UEFA;
    Netherlands, Spain, Italy, England, Germany and possibly few other. All will make it to SA.
    But looking at the rest in the running.. you may think Sweden, Ireland, Scotland, Switzerland, Ukraine are good enough to be in the cup.. but when was the last time they achieved anything??

    Mexico are the Gold Cup runners-up and Copa América bronze medalists. Damn right they should be in SA!

    Granted, AFC is not good enough. But Asia is the biggest continent and WC is payed by sponsor money.
     
  9. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    So the "best" 24 teams only have to play 6 qualifier games? And what is your criteria to determine the best 24 teams anyway. And who would guarantee, that while using this method a draw would always deliver equally strong groups?

    In 2006 these two teams reached more than all CONCACAF, CAF and AFC teams combined.
     
  10. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member+

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    *applause*
     
  11. trekky76

    trekky76 Member

    May 31, 2008
    Stockholm
    Achieved what? A goalless draw?
    Ghana and Mexico made it to round of 16 too you know.

     
  12. Gibraldo

    Gibraldo Member+

    radnicki nis
    Serbia
    Nov 17, 2005
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Well, in Africa it is the same, also only the group winner are through.

    The only unfair thing with the qualifiers in europe is, that the weakest runner-up will be eliminated without having the chance to play in the play-offs.

    That reminds me strongly on Denmark failing in 1990, where a great side was eliminated due to calculation absurdities.
     
  13. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yes but Switzerland was there as a group winner and Ukraine reached the quarters.
     
  14. Dae~Hanminguk

    Dae~Hanminguk New Member

    Feb 16, 2009
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Host-1
    UEFA-14
    CONMEBOL-5
    CAF-5
    AFC-3.5
    CONCACAF-3
    OFC-0.5

    How about this?

    Also, UEFA may need to adapt preliminary round system.
     
  15. Lusankya

    Lusankya Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 14, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    There should be rather more than less intercontinental play-offs. So Concacaf 3.5 and Conmebol 4.5 is all right.
    Maybe have a play-off between UEFA and AFC instead of giving a whole spot to UEFA. And UEFA shouldn't adapt preliminary rounds, that's ripping off all the excitement of the little teams. They love to play great teams, even if they lose all the time. And it's not like they don't improve over time.
     
  16. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    I agree. I think it should be

    Direct Spots

    Host 1
    UEFA 9
    CONMEBOL 3
    CONCACAF 2
    CAF 3
    AFC 2

    Total = 20

    Playoff Spots

    UEFA 9
    CONMEBOL 3
    CONCACAF 3
    CAF 4
    AFC 4
    OFC 1

    Total = 24

    12 spots up for grabs in playoffs. For draw purposes one pot to contain the 12 UEFA and CONMEBOL teams and 1 to contain the others. Every region has guaranteed teams at the World Cup (apart from OFC) and every region has the opportunity to increase their representation based on the current ability of its teams. The only confederation that would need to revamp its qualification system is Africa. In every other confederation we could identify which teams qualify and which teams go to playoffs using the current systems
     
  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Suyuntuy, I admit UEFA Group 2 may be easy but I strongly disagree that both Israel and Switzerland are not in the Top 24 in UEFA. Israel (who I root for) played two draws with France in World Cup 2006 qualifying and outscored Russia on aggregate in their two meetings in Euro 2008 qualifying.

    The original post seems to have a problem with how many spots FIFA gave the confederations rather than how the confederations chose to structure their qualifying. I admit UEFA deserves more spots and I think CAF has too many this cycle. CONCACAF has 3.5 when they may only deserve 3, but their interconfederational playoff will be harder this time against CONMEBOL than it was last time against AFC. I would expect the CONMEBOL fifth place team if they qualify to fare better than Trinidad and Tobago did last time.

    UEFA will never go to more than 12 qualifiers per country unless they start WCQs before the Euro tournament is played or combine the World Cup and Euro qualifiers somehow like CAF.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Yeah I agree. I think after the top 5-6 countries UEFA is a bit overrated. Sometimes you see a second-tier UEFA team make the quarterfinals (like Ukraine in 2006) but that's partly because so many world cups are played in Europe. I'm sure if 50% of world cups were played in Africa or Asia you would see a team from those continents reaching the quarterfinals a lot more often.
     
  19. John K

    John K Member

    Nov 8, 2007
    If they had a free pass to the finals each time they would achieve just as much if not more than any team outside of Europe and Brazil/Argentina.
     
  20. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    :confused: How does getting a free pass make it more likely to succeed once you get there?
     
  21. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    No one has a free pass to the finals. Some teams have easier paths than others, but everyone has to win their way there.
     
  22. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    If you're not there due to systemic/process reasons (eg the OFC team playing off against CONMEBOL once every 4 years to qualify, until this cycle), then you CAN'T succeed in the finals at all.

    If you're ALWAYS there due to systemic/process reasons (eg a free pass) then you CAN succeed in the finals.

    :rolleyes:

    Old saying: "you've got to be in it to win it".
     
  23. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    It might not make you more likely to succeed at a given tournament but, even a second-rate side is likely to crack it at some stage* - miracles do happen. Almost any team is really just an easy draw and a lucky result away from making the second round.

    Of course, fans of countries that do this will only ever remember that time they did really well, and deny that the other times they just stunk it up ever occurred.

    Except maybe English fans - they go on about everything. :rolleyes:

    J

    * - this offer not valid in Scotland.
     
  24. uuaww

    uuaww Member+

    Nov 21, 2007
    New Orleans, LA
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OFC should just be absorbed into AFC. There prelim rounds should then be made so that its geographical
     
  25. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    How is that different to what's happening now?

    J
     

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