Have poor referees and cynical play ruined this World Cup?

Discussion in 'BigSoccer Polls' started by dark knight, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. Truckwu

    Truckwu Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Munich
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Funny, I always thought, English was influenced by the German and Latin languages and not vice versa. But you never stop learning....:p
    If I would believe in the all compassing fraud - as you obviously do - i would definitely stop watching WC. Stop, end and out.
     
  2. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also not true. If good players don't do things that deserve cards, they will be able to play. Its not some kind of conspiracy by FIFA. NED, AUS, and USA had their chances to win the games and couldn't do it.
    Who were any of these teams missing due to suspension? Yes, Mastroeni is a good player on the US, but we had chances to win without him. It was VanBasten that kept Ruud out of the Portugal game. Don't tell me FIFA had a hand in that...
     
  3. four

    four Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Atlanta
    I can't think of too many decisions that have directly affected the outcomes of games in the tournament.

    Portugal v Holland - was the players not being able to control themselves. Ugly game but was the players fault.

    Aus v Itally - Neill put himself in position for the foul against Grosso.

    US v Ghana - Terrible call for the penalty, US still didn't do enough to earn the win. The worse part of this (for the tournament) was that Essien got booked early and cheaply and had to sit against Brazil.
     
  4. four

    four Member

    Oct 13, 2004
    Atlanta
    The cynical play part of the question is what really frustrates me.

    Teams drawing fouls to try and score from set pieces instead of free flowing play drives me crazy. Makes a game much more boring to watch.

    I understand it is a strategy, just doesn't make a game very entertaining.
     
  5. sokol

    sokol Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    To me what has hurt the tournament the most is the diving and embellishment. I realize that to some extent it should be part of the game. But it has gone too far in this tournament, and while the players are to blame, so are the refs and FIFA for indirectly encouraging it. With the rate of yellow cards for this tournament, it's pretty obvious that players know they can get the other team in trouble. There have been a couple yellow cards given for diving, but there have been many more yellows given to a player who fouled somebody and then recieved a yellow as a result of embellishment. In fact we were almost robbed of seeing Zidane continue this tournament because a player tried to obstruct him then took a dive. And Zidane got the yellow. That's the failure of this world cup. Instead of discouraging physical and violent play, FIFA has encouraged dishonest play. I personally would much rather see guys going in hard for tackles than faking injuries and flopping trying to use the referee to their advantage.
     
  6. MJ-inBRITAIN

    MJ-inBRITAIN Member

    Feb 19, 2006
    Nottingham, UK
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With that dossier compiled by his chief financial officer, how can you not believe that there is massive fraud surrounding Sepp Blatter's Fifa? But I still watch it for the players.

    I guess that the point it brings home is that it's not in his interest to take the referees out of the equation, to make them not able to turn a big game and so we won't get rules reform until he chokes on his waffles or whatever it is the Swiss eat. ...chocolate?

    Did you see he sent an African Fifa member home yesterday for selling his 3 spare tickets? lol
     
  7. dasoccerplayafosho

    Jun 30, 2003
    Utah USA
    Yes, they have been bad, but a lot of the red and yellow cards the players could have avoided if they would have been smart about it.

    All I have to say is that I can't wait for the next world cup, when fifa will be stressing NOT giving cards, and we'll see the other extreme. That will be fun
     
  8. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I'd say too many cards in many games, seems like almost half the foul calls get carded, which seems like too much to me. But, I also tend to think way too much is being made of it. The American announcers are getting carried away with blame to ref rants.

    And, appearantly Balboa thinks you should be able to basically mug someone before you get a card. I forget which game I was watching when a guy got his foot up high and cleated an opponent in the chest and Balboa was going on about how that was no yellow card offense. I liked him as a player, but as an announcer, he needs to stop spending half his air time whining about the calls.

    I think some of the borderline cards could be held up on, but I've seen very few cards that didn't have a reasonable argument for them. And there will always be controversial offside calls.

    Besides, everyone complains about cynical tackling and fouls. Outside of carding players for infractions, I don't really see another way of trying to eliminate it as much as possible.

    In the end, the best teams have really made it through for the most part, the France-Spain game gave us a nice preview of what's to come with the better teams matching up, and I'm thinking this is gonna be a really good cup, and already has featured some great matchups, drama, and some fantastic goals. Why get too obsessed with the refs?
     
  9. NYfutbolfan

    NYfutbolfan Member

    Dec 17, 2000
    LI, NY
    It's amazing how many threads discuss cards without addressing why or how they come about. Some have mentioned that the players deserve the cards, but the question of why, goes unanswered.

    Forgive me Marcelo, but saying that in your mind that's not a yellow is horsecrap. That's not analysis, that's pot stirring.

    A penal foul (holding, pushing, tripping, charging, etc.) is a cautionable offense depending on the ref's opinion. If it was careless, it's merely a foul. If it was reckless, it's a caution (yellow card). If it is violent or performed with excessive force, it's a send-off (red card).

    careless - not using proper caution or a simple miscalculation of time/distance.

    reckless - making unnatural movement to intimidate or gain an unfair advantage.

    excessive force - used more force than necessary to make a fair play and placed opponent in danger of bodily harm.

    If fans were to look at the game through this lens, they might start to actually appreciate the job that the refs are doing out there. Sure, there is a Neill and Onyewu call, but there is actually alot of fine work going on out there.
     
  10. Truckwu

    Truckwu Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    Munich
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If the matches are predetermined - as you think - watching thoses matches would be like watching rats in a laboratory. They can run around, bite each other, bellow with shrieky voices - but they would have no influence on the outcome.

    Nope, i wouldn`t watch rats in such a situation. Not even for the rats.
     
  11. vabeacher

    vabeacher Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Virginia Beach, VA
    The best teams make it through because they have the depth to cover for suspensions due to carded violations. Brazil could easily win without Ronaldo if they had to. Plus the better teams play smarter, they don't put themselves into situations where questionable fouls can be called and carded.
     
  12. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Article on which referees go to the next round. I see that one of the referees that many of us Yank fans weren't happy with made the cut. The Russian referee who had such a tough match on his hands gets the boot, as does three card Monty.

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=372819&cc=3888
     
  13. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Give me a break, Sepp... instructions not being followed consistently? As far as I can tell, the referees who aren't following the instructions are doing the best jobs of anyone in the tournament! And nothing said about diving? At all?
     
  14. fscat

    fscat Member

    May 2, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    I didn't watch the '90 WC, what happened that made it SOOO bad?
     
  15. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    Why would it turn to that extreme and why should it? How about assigning the best refs and don't tell 'em a damn thing except to ref a freaking soccer match? I find it absurd that special mandates have to be followed just for a tournament. Let's just let the refs work the damn matches as they see fit. Presumably that's how they earned their way into the pool in the first place.
     
  16. Mosco

    Mosco Member+

    Dec 1, 2004
    Sun Valley, CA


    Thank you I still can't sleep right after that game I hope the ref and fifa and Blatter get rattled by upset fans on bad reffering!
     
  17. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a good idea. Don't let players have any consistency. You could argue that despite the mandates, there hasn't been any consistency. In fact, I might agree with that in this particular tournament, but that doesn't mean the idea of special mandates is bad. If FIFA thinks diving is bad, they should tell referees to card people for it more often. If the referees all followed the special mandate at least the players would have a better idea of what they can and can't do.
     
  18. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    Yes, but not a week before the tournament. If FIFA wants it they should pay for every ref to be trained so every league match could be reffed that way for at least a year before the WC. BTW, where in the hell did I say not having consistency? I'm of the mind that refs know what the hell they're doing already. That's how they were chosen to work the WC. Let them do what they already know how to do. The past two WC's have been refereeing disasters because of last minute tinkering from Seeping Bladder and his inept cronies.
     
  19. philsoc

    philsoc Member

    Jul 11, 2000
    South Florida
    It's not the refs, it's the players

    I actually like most of the calls and cards (not while I'm watching, but I understand and appreciate the effort to clean up the game.)

    I'm sick and tired of hack fouls, dives and time-wasting - and being nice hasn't worked, so maybe a few harsh examples could actually help us re-achieve the beautiful game.
     
  20. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of them know what they are doing but do it their own way in their own league. There has to be someone giving directives for the whole cup. These guys aren't all working the same leagues. In fact I think none of them work in the same leagues. How could it not be inconsistent across the tournament with that many different refs and crews? The last minute nature of the mandates is dumb, I agree that they should have been pushing the new rules for the past year or so.
     
  21. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Negative tactics, mainly. The championship final was the worst-played and most negative match among meaningful games I've ever seen played, even 16 years on.

    The refereeing has been weak as day-old dishwater, but a lot more has to happen -- and especially with regard to negative, defensive, pragmatic tactics -- before this World Cup gets filed among the "worst ever played" category.
     
  22. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    Why? Let the refs communicate as they do in every other match. Let them give the match the normal treatment they usually give. Players will respect a ref who calls a tight match if he communicates it early, and NOT with rediculous yellow cards. Same with a looser match as long as he let's 'em know REAL (not imagined) harsh fouls will be dealt with.

    Take the freaking suits out of the matches and let the players and refs do their jobs.
     
  23. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, You are misreading my posts...
    I'm not defending the particular way that mandates were done this year. But I DO think its important that the referees have some consistency between them.
    Every league and tournament has to have that. To just let all the refs do whatever they do would be very confusing to the players. For instance, isn't the EPL refereed differently from MLS? Yes, I know there were no Americans at the Cup this year, but I figure those are two leagues most people have seen a lot of.
     
  24. TTweLLMan

    TTweLLMan New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Middleboro MA
    I'm not saying the refs are to blame for the USA failing to do much of anything. They can only hurt us so much. Our strikers are to blame far more than any ref.


    Of course they didn't help matters, sending off Mastro for a questionable yellow at best.
     
  25. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    After this world cup, there is no excuse why the Italians should win every medal in diving in the 2008 Olympics.

    And for any official that bought it*cough*Australia*cough*, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell them.
     

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