Hasselbaink, Melchiot and Babayaro gone in January.

Discussion in 'Chelsea' started by Clan, Oct 24, 2003.

  1. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/chelsea/story.jsp?story=456674

    Might be something, might be nothing.
    I do think that Hasselbaink and Melchiot are in their last season at Stamford Bridge, whether it ends in January or May.
    I think i would rather have Babayaro at the club though as i'm so far unimpressed with Bridge at this level of play.

    Salgado and Chivu?
     
  2. Dr_Intoxicated

    Dr_Intoxicated Member+

    Sep 10, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I have to agree about Bridge, I think he is our poorest signing, well maybe alongside Veron, although Seba got a good press on wednesday and certainly loked better then in previous games.

    We should never have let LeSaux go. Melchiot had not looked good in the preseason or in the earlier games this season but he did a reasonable job for us last Saturday when called upon.

    Jimmy is looking good again this year, but that might mean it is easier to sell him.
     
  3. paulo

    paulo Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Atlanta
    upside

    I am a big jfh fan - but unfortunately for this team he has little upside. He is a power striker that is not getting any faster or younger. He can bag more than a few but he is not going to be steadily improving as this season progresses and as we move to next season. Mutu, Eidur, Cole, Forssel, all have tremedous upside they are improving their confidence, vision, and hopefully one or more can put on some weight to bang around against some of the "pack-it-in"defensive minded teams fighting off relegation. Crespo does have some size and is our immediate replacement for that power forward position - I believe he is a year or two younger than JFH and will improve in the EPL once he adjusts to the pace - plus his finesse style fits more with the direction Chelsea is heading than JFH. I am afraid it is inevitable that one of my favorite pure strikers will be sold. It is especially bad for JFH as he will unlikely be sold to another EPL league because everyone thinks that his style is most accustomed to this league and would probably really help a side that Chelsea is competing with.

    my feelings on Melchiot and Baba is that they are "tweeners" Melchiot is a good utillity player in the midfield/wing defense. But, we have better options at both of those positions when everyone is healthy - his strength to us is his versatility - but now that we don't worry so much about weekly wages we don't have to pay one player to be the backup for two positions we can pay two players to backup two positions. Ditto for Baba except he is a good utility player in the central/wing defense roles. I actually think he would do excellent in a central defender role for most teams (his pace vision and skills are excellent) but if Chelsea has ambitions of CL and EPL trophies we may need central defenders with more size to compete against the Christian Vieri's and RVNs out there.
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I can understand letting JFH go at the end of the year (I don't think we're going to start imploding the club; there's just no need) but why Baba and Melchiot? They're both great squad players. I don't recall either complaining to the press about lack of first team action, and they're both very adequate replacements.

    I've been unimpressed by Bridge in pretty much every game I've seen, so I'd rather get rid of him, actually. He's not actively bad, just very mediocre, especially against better players. Get me Chivu! But Melchiot can stay. He's very adequate on the right, and can pitch in as a CB. I don't want Salgado either; we may want someone to defend, after all.

    As for JFH - if we're going to bring Carlton Cole back as our power option, there's really no need to keep him around. If he were willing to take a reduced role, I'd be in favor of keeping him around, but I think he still wants to play. If so, I wish him the best luck elsewhere when he's sold at the end of the season.

    The only question I really have, is who do we want to buy in defense aside from Chivu? Van Buyten? Boumsong? Any other candidates? Desailly is a legend, but he is 34.
     
  5. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    May be for no reason other than the fact that he (Abramovich) can.
    An ego thing if you will.

    That being said, geting replacements for those players may be a litle bit harder this time around.Geting big name players at any rate.The rotation thing has been done to the death and everybody that has an interest in football across the world knows by now that we don't have the same team out for two matches in a row.Geting somebody new in may be tougher this time around as big name players will demand every game starts before comitting to Chelsea from now on.

    I would hazard a guess though that this time next season the squad will have little resemblance to the one that finished 4th last season.

    Anybody else think that young Johnson-whilst being a fantastic talent for the future-is being found wanting more and more lately in his defensive duties?
    I think he is still about 2/3 years away from being an everyday right full.
     
  6. starman1994

    starman1994 New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Malaysia
    Must agree that both Melch and Baba has risen to the challenge this season whenever they were called upon to do so. They should be kept as backup for injuries or suspensions or as rotational players (i.e Carling and F.A Cup ties).

    Bridge will improve further as the season progresses IMO. A replacement for Dessa is the only consideration then wouldn't it. But since Roman wants results by next season, most probably, CR will be forced to sign more experienced CL campaigners such as Salgado (who is in the midst of negotiating a new deal with Real, if they fail to offer him a better deal, he'll definitely accept CR's offer to join us next season).

    Johnson is still green by all accounts. With Salgado in the squad he'll definitely improve greatly.

    As for JFH, C.Cole is the natural successor, if not better IMO. No more signing for forwards please. I'd rather see us utilise Crespo, Mutu, Guddy, Forssell and Cole in the next few seasons.
     
  7. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    Originally posted by starman1994
    Must agree that both Melch and Baba has risen to the challenge this season whenever they were called upon to do so.

    Apart from Veron-as Dr Int has said-i don't think anybody has put in a bad performance.Even young Bridge has had some blinders going forward, it's his inability to use his other leg that gets him into all his problems, continually having to push the ball to the sideline to turn around on it to use his left peg.

    Originally posted by starman1994
    Johnson is still green by all accounts. With Salgado in the squad he'll definitely improve greatly.

    My point exactly.Still green.Too much expected from him at his age really.Top notch mids and forwards will lose him with good fakes etc etc.End result being free kicks, pennos and crosses that lead to goals.

    Originally posted by starman1994
    As for JFH, C.Cole is the natural successor, if not better IMO. No more signing for forwards please. I'd rather see us utilise Crespo, Mutu, Guddy, Forssell and Cole in the next few seasons.

    Crespo and Mutu have to be the future pairing for the club.I love to see crosses coming into the box when Crespo is playing-his positional sence and ability to head the ball reminds me of the Nevin/Dixon era, only better.
    Duff and Gronkjaer on the wings and those two up the front may be part of out "starting 11" that has been talked about lately.
     
  8. paulo

    paulo Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Atlanta
    I probably will turn out to be the lone Gronks unsupporter on these boards but I wish "he" would go. He is fast but often dribbles to nowhere and his crosses are inconsistently good. My main criticism is that he plays no defense, and his vision and timing is really out-of-sync with everyone on the team. The tendency is to play balanced with a wanna-be Duff on the right because Duff is such a good dribbler with a killer cross and a lot of hustle. But, who says we have to be so symmetrical? If we put more of defender on the right that does not dribble much and has above average crossing but is tough on tackling we open up space for the defenders to overlap (Melchiot loves to do this). Plus, Veron/Joe Cole/Lamps could use a "stay-at-home wing player to work the ball inside and outside in building an attack. This center-wing lock is quite popular with some national sides.
     
  9. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    I would have been in agreement with you during most of last season about gronkjaer.However, he improved vastly during the final push for a champs league place at the end of last season.he's no dribbler like Duff, in fact, he's not like Duff at all really.He does get back and tackle though, an asoect of said improvement i mentioned above.

    I though that Geremi would be the everyday wide right player when we bought him, but, as of yet Geremi is only a shadow of the player he was at Boro last season.
    Gronkjaer always had the vision and pace, he just lacked the ability to cross when moving with speed, an aspect that has also vastly improved lately.
    With somebody like Crespo in a team two good wide men are needed to bring out the best in him.

    I think we also need to stick to basics and put out a 4-4-2 for the majority of the games.
     
  10. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    I think Gronks has been getting progressively better in his time at Chelsea, so I would like to see him start. I think that a midfield of Makalele, Gronks Duff and Lampard is our best look now. Replace Gronks or Duff with Veron or Cole and that would work too. But I think that Duff or Gronks MUST be on the field at all times.
    Without them we try to push everything through the center, and that can get too predictable.
     
  11. mst77

    mst77 New Member

    Jul 10, 2002
    Washington
    If we're playing 4-4-2

    I agree that is our best midfield, but CR sticks to his diamond I don't think we can play the 2 wingers at once.
     
  12. BridgeMonkee

    BridgeMonkee BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2002
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    2p's worth

    Melchiot. I can understand Melchiot wanting to go, Johnson seems to be the first choice RB and Melchiot must want regular first team football same as all players. Melchiot had a good season last year and was part of our defence that helped us to qualify for the CL. In fact without that defence we would not have qualified, cos the midfield was mostly crap and the strikers were out of sorts. Melchiot is a great player, but only on occasion has been a little clumsy at the back. He is also a great utility player, RM, CD, CM and RB. Do we keep Melchiot as cover? Geremi and Gallas could always cover for RB if needed. I think we can all agree that Johnson is an amazing talent and he should be the first choice RB. And I say play him as first choice RB regardless of how green he is. Having Salgado in the squad would mean Johnson wouldn’t play. Does it really benefit a player NOT to play? I think Its good for a team to have a few green players. Good for the team spirit. Didn’t Man U win the EPL back in the 90’s with 6 green players all under 21? (Beckham, Scholes, Butt, etc).

    The question is would a slightly smaller squad be more cohesive? With all the money we have, we can always buy new players but does that help a TEAM to settle? We have some awesome players right here, right now. Maybe some of them wouldnae make an all-star super-dooper XI. Maybe you would go with Roberto Carlos or Chivu and drop Wayne Bridge? But I think Bridge is young, talented and extremely quick (I read somewhere he was a sprint champion as a kid). He’s English, and CR knows we need some English fighting spirit in the TEAM if we are going to win English football games. Maybe Bridge is not the most creative left-sided player, but we do happen to have a certain Mr.Duff who is perhaps on the verge of becoming the most talented left-sided winger/player in the world.

    The team we have at the moment is good enough to win the league, and with a little tweaking and perhaps one or two additions at the end of the season perhaps even the CL next season.

    PS – IF we lose Jimmy, I’d stick with the 3 strikers we have in Mutu, Crespo and Guddy. Joe Cole and Duffer always able to move up front if required or Veron in a 4-5-1 type of thing. I honestly think that a slightly smaller squad would indeed be more cohesive. Less is More sometimes. The pendulum swings from last season were we were almost bereft of creative talented players, to now where we are knee-deep in world class players.
     
  13. paulo

    paulo Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Atlanta
    just so there's no confusion. a center-wing lock is a 4-4-2. It is just that if you have one speedster on the wing let them stretch the field but maybe on the other side your speedster is in the defense and you want to control the tempo in the midfield a bit better so, your wing midfielder plays small ball with the center as it is their best qualities. Of course, the most succesful teams can have either wing play small touches with the offensive center midfield and make the deep runs. I just think that there is more than one way to play a right midfield position and that different players have different strengths. I like to say before a game: let the passers, pass. let the dribblers, dribble. let the shooter, shoot. everyone play within their abilities and play to their strengths.

    oh and mmmhmmm.. bridgemonkee. less could be more. and mentoring johnson or bridge maybe the kind of thing that improves JTs game.
     
  14. BridgeMonkee

    BridgeMonkee BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2002
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Gronks

    Gronks made the effort to improve his game, Zenden who was perhaps a greater talent, didn't make the effort and now plays up in the North east somewhere :)

    CR is a big fan of Gronks, he plays Gronks regularly as a starter or as a sub. Gronks is part of the club for a while I think. Gronks-Duff? Duff-Gronks?
    Geremi anyone? I still don't think we've seen the best of the Indomitable Lion. Geremi could easily become a regular in our midfield. the best id yet to some from this lad (only 24).
     
  15. BridgeMonkee

    BridgeMonkee BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2002
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Gronks

    Gronks made the effort to improve his game, Zenden who was perhaps a greater talent, didn't make the effort and now plays up in the North east somewhere :)

    CR is a big fan of Gronks, he plays Gronks regularly as a starter or as a sub. Gronks is part of the club for a while I think. Gronks-Duff? Duff-Gronks?
    Geremi anyone? I still don't think we've seen the best of the Indomitable Lion. Geremi could easily become a regular in our midfield. the best is yet to some from this lad (only 24).
     
  16. BridgeMonkee

    BridgeMonkee BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 25, 2002
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Gronks

    Gronks made the effort to improve his game, Zenden who was perhaps a greater talent, didn't make the effort and now plays up in the North east somewhere :)

    CR is a big fan of Gronks, he plays Gronks regularly as a starter or as a sub. Gronks is part of the club for a while I think. Gronks-Duff? Duff-Gronks?
    Geremi anyone? I still don't think we've seen the best of the Indomitable Lion. Geremi could easily become a regular in our midfield. the best is yet to some from this lad (only 24).
     
  17. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    3rd times a charm Monkee :)

    "center wing lock"....got me on that one.
    Where does it come from?

    Geremi-agreed that we have still to see the best of him as he;s been quite poor so far really, although he seemed to have been in a decent vein of form untill the enforced absence.

    It's all a matter of opinions really and everyone of us here would probably put out a different starting 11.

    Hasselbaink?
    Apart from scoring goals he really doesn't contribute much to the team effort really.He is a firm favourite of Ranieri though as he has proved numerous times.It will be interesting to see if Claudio will try to use his position as manager to try and keep him.
    Saying to Abramovich something like "yes, i know you're the owerner and all that, but, i'm the manager and know more about the game than you and i say we keep Jimmy"

    I think that what is being lost in all this is that we really wern't a bad team last season at all.If we had some firepower up front who knows....
     
  18. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
  19. the101er

    the101er New Member

    Jan 29, 2003
    The original story you are quoting is just a plant by Dick Advocaat to get JFH's attention. It has nothing to do with Chelsea, and the reporter is just making things up as far as the other players are concerned.

    Unfortunately, Advocaat is of the opinion (and he might be right) that his players need first team football every week, rather than battling for a place. It's really Jimmy's call, though, and my gut feeling is, he will stay at Chelsea.

    The other players mentioned could heve been drawn out of a hat.

    At the end of the season, and perhaps even in January, some players will be moving on or retiring. But right now, no one is playing the loan game better than Chelsea and as fans of the team, we should all be overjoyed how well the two months of the season have gone. Especially, considering, they have not looked like a normal, fluid passing yet aggressive Chelsea side. I've yet to see those amazing one touch passing combinations that made last year's team such a joy to behold.
     
  20. paulo

    paulo Member

    Feb 13, 2002
    Atlanta
    center wing lock

    The term is descriptive really, to describe a tactic:

    It is a bit defensive of a tactic that is particularly useful when the defensive center midfielder is a bit of a brute that does not possess world class trapping and passing skills but is needed for tackling strength (think Viera or Makelele) and the offensive center midfielder (Veron-type) does not play much defense. Then the "lock"' with the outside midfielder helps in the transition.

    Whenever the ball squirts to the offensive center midfield you may not want both wings to run away if the offensive center midfielder needs a safe pass out wide. Especially if the Veron player is under pressure but can't really trust the defensive center midfielder to deliver with the skills needed to make the decision as to whether to trap, pass or dribble if needed quickly. It is just that before the game it is designated that the speedier winger will need not worry so much about supporting the center midfielder but play to their strengths (speed) and that the other winger more often than not comes trotting close (checking to) the central midfielder to aid in distribution. Of course, this is soccer (and fluid) so if the other team gets wise you may wish to change things up and have the speedy winger check to receive the ball in safe space and let the wing try and surprise their defender that hasn't expected the deep run all game.

    It is sometimes referred to as assymetrical because the wing midfielders play slightly different roles. And sometimes is referred to as the skinny diamond midfield or the twisted skinny diamond. The term center-wing lock is borrowed only loosely from the hockey wing-lock this may not be the best source but you can get the idea.
    www.leaderboard.com/RODENT36.htm
    Usually the speedy winger is right footed and on the right and the lock would be with the left wing midfielder but with Duff its the mirror image of course.

    Forgot to mention that this tactic is mostly necessary to link the offense and defense - and if the two central midfielders were not such polar opposites (Veron and Makelele) the wing-lock would be unnecessary. Occasionally Madrid played this way with Makelele defensively and Figo and Zidane in the lock (with speedy midfielder of the week on the other side). But, they found it much more effective to have Zidane and Figo play one in front of each other and lineup on either the right or the left and follow the play. this left the other side exposed if they lost the ball badly on the dribble. Makelele and the defense usally adjusted eventually the tactic fell out of favor not sure why though (they used it in CL 2001).
     
  21. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    center wing lock

    Thanks for that.
    I must say thats the first time i have ever heard-or took note of anyway-that particular term.
     
  22. Wildman262

    Wildman262 New Member

    Oct 5, 2001
    Crespo, Mutu, Hasselbaink Gudjohnsen, Veron, Geremi, Makalele, Gronkjaer, Gallas, Desailly, Cudicini.

    Chelsea has an overabundance in talent. The greatest challenge will be keeping all these players happy and finding the right mix among the above. As long as Abromovich has his billions, Chelsea will be a contender for years to come. The Premiership now has 3 horses in the race.
     
  23. starman1994

    starman1994 New Member

    Oct 1, 2003
    Malaysia
    People seem to be forgetting that the weekend results are an indication that having a big squad is not a curse but a blessing.

    Both ManUre and Arse are suffering from a lack of squad depth, many of their first team players have no luxury of being rested, even for the first half of the match!!!

    Chelsea however could always rely on the pool pf players that are waiting on the bench to provide quality cover for those that were pick as first eleven for every match that we played in.

    As the season progresses further, there'll be plenty of injuries as well as suspensions (Arse comes mind) to contend with. Therefore, players that are rotated have less chances of lethargy or injuries, keeping them fresh physically and mentally for the games ahead.

    Will the players be kept happy????? If you were apart of the team that is consistently winning and staying in the hunt for honours...... would you be happy? Go figure!

    ;)
     
  24. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Centre wing lock

    If you mean that if one winger goes forward the other will tend to stay slightly back and tucked in to offer additional defense then most good teams have been doing that since football was invented. Frankly, most of these phrases don't really mean anything for football because it is, by it's nature, too fluid to be described in these rigid terms.
     
  25. Danks81

    Danks81 Member

    May 18, 2003
    Philadelphia
    I believe Roma has recently paid Ajax enough money to ensure that they get Chivu on a permanent basis.
     

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