It's one thing to say Turner is getting much better training at Arsenal. I hope everyone would agree there. It's another thing to say 4 months at Arsenal made a big difference. Improvement in sports for players of Turner's age doesn't work like that, except for baseball players 20 years ago who discovered the magic of modern chemistry.
The dynamic was already changing. That lost generation meant interest in those players was going away while cheep young talent started showing up. Those prime MLSers are actually worse than what they used to be. Maybe in another 5 years there might be some guys, but right now, the players are poor. The reality is the only MLS guys who should be on the team at this point are young prospects.
I'd say Turner is a completely different player. Blah, blah, blah shot stopping. Tuener was an extremely flawed GK before his move. He was a liability with the ball at his feet and scared to come off his line for crosses. He has improved dramatically in those areas and actually looks like goalkeeper as opposed to some novelty shot stopper. Pretty crazy he couldn't improve those things in MLS.
I think you're pretty much right there. By the eye test, Zimmerman is good enough to play for a straggler in France or Germany, etc. But if you're one of those clubs, you're unlikely to pin your hopes of fending off relegation by investing in Zimmerman. On your first sentence, anyone that gets turned off of a sports league on that kind of basis is, well, weird. As for the rest of it, yeah, MLS fans, in my opinion, really exaggerate how much the league has improved. It has, and our slowly-but-surely improvement in the CCL is proof of that. But MLS isn't retaining your Adamses, McKennies, etc. The development system is light years apart from what it was 20 years ago, but how much of that shows up on the field? In my opinion, a little but not alot.
I'm right there with you on Ferreira...I'm not a fan of his. But I think it was just a bad decision by an average-ish coach, not some kind of conspiracy. Me, I would definitely have taken Pefok, but probably over Wright. He sucked but he scored. So what the hell do I know?
But what's the "why?" I think the "why" is because the players who don't go to Europe aren't good enough. They aren't withering on the vine, they're hitting their own personal ceiling. I base that on the many average-ish players who go from MLS to Europe or vice versa. If your view that MLS is holding back player development vs. Europe was true, all the guys like Nico and Shaq who come to MLS would be impactful. They aren't.
And another key was that we struggled defending in space. When he was in form that was the weakest part of Brooks' game. Once we'd committed to "playing on the front foot," Brooks' ability to contribute to the USMNT was in jeopardy.
theres a huge difference in the different pools of players in MLS - domestics, academy players, internationals, DPs....even though the league lumps them in together in many ways - an improving MLS says very little about the quality of domestic players in the league, especially the "lifers"...imo they have gotten worse......as europe has raided MLS more heavily....the good ones all leave. even though MLS has gotten better the domestic players havent.
I think there is some important context re: global pandemic too. Between that and most of the complaints here conflating the current player pool with the pool circa 2019....it's willful ignorance / nitpicking just to pick nits.
Are you telling me you wouldn't have even taken a healthy Miles Robinson? I would have started him, but you wouldn't even have him on the team? Unless you're saying a 25 year old is young, which I would not.
zimmerman and reams defending in space didnt stop 3 easy fast break goals.....so tell me what was the benefit of going with the weaker passers then at CB? as good as ream was in 2022 brooks has been a better passer.
well yeah ...woudlve taken a playing brooks and a healthy chris richards....there were some injuries/loss of form that did hurt the team in qatar
well when you look at tyler adams form 1 year ago to now its no comparison...same with ream and turner....playing the EPL literally makes them better players part of the reason a player might not make it at a higher level is lack of ability....it is true its a factor. but think of how differently we would think of pepi right now if he never left augsburg and hadnt played much instead of lighting up the erdivisie.... I strongly reject the idea that a player is what they are regardless of environment..... some leaps are simply too big and then a player cant adapt.....but thats a differnt matter. there are windows of development...that, if missed, tend to calcify what a player can or cannot be......eventually there comes a point when a player more or less stops developing - usually - and its luck as well. if they get into the right environment or not.
Let me lay out my main theme in this thread. Yes, playing against better players almost always helps a player improve. (You can have situations like Shane Falco, but those are rare.) What y'all all have wrong is that you're seeing Yurp vs. MLS as a light switch that's either on or off. It's not. It's a light switch with a dimmer. It's a continuum.
There were limited midfield choices because Berhalter played Trapp, Bradley, Yeuill, Lletget, Acosta, and Roldan over and over and neglected finding real depth. The decision Berhalter made all cycle was the MLS and euro guys got slow played if there names weren't Pulisic, Adams or Mckennie. If he had actually integrated de la Torre, we would have all had an idea. Minutes are precious and scarce. Id want the guys who go to the WC to be the guys the coach used the most in the cycle. There will be cases where someone ages out or a new guy pops up, but there were tons of wasted minutes on guys who were never going to the WC and wouldn't play if they did. CCV didn't just pop up out of the blue. He should have been in a rotation since the beginning of the cycle. WCQ is about results, but it would be nice to improve the collective team along the way. The good enough for concacaf players brings the level of play way down and does nothing to improve the team. There is also the thing is those players aren't always good enough to get a result. Pretty weird to defend the decision for that Panama lineup. We sucked that night and lost. I think that game was the beginning of the end for Lletget. I dismiss these players because there are other players who were also good enough for concacaf, but also might be able help the team improve. Again, Berhalter just settled and guys who maybe should have had a handful of caps got over 20. The midfield issue was lack of preparation (same goes for forward and CB). Instead of looking for a third 8/10 that he would have been willing to play at the WC, he ran Mckennie and Musah into the ground and settled on Acosta. I would have just rotated Mckennie,
Hmmm.... you think the way a fan views a league shouldn't be impacted if inferior players from that league hurt the team but played over and over? My disdain for the league grows every year. MLS fans do a great job of running potential fans off. Pretty wild somebody can defend the usage of a player like Lletget and getting rid of Brooks. How is anyone supposed to be taken seriously when they are happy "good enough for cocncacaf" player getting minutes and "good enough for the WC" player not.
FFS, any player that stays in an uncompetitive league with ridiculous roster construction is wasting potential. Players should improve into their primes, but MLS players typically stagnate after a couple of years in the league. Those two things have nothing to do with one another. Talk about a ridiculously simplistic way to look at this. Nico may have not excelled simply because the team and league weren't a good fit for him.
Just stupid. Ream and Zimmerman aren't great at defending space. Long is really good at anything other than his athleticism. We also committed to playing out of the back. Why didn't that impact Zimmermans and Longs chances?
The issue is player pool selected in 2019. Robinson, CCV, Sargent, and Weah were already in the pool before Berhalter pushed them out. The key players who weren't in the pool yet were Dest, Musah, Reyna, and Aaronson. So berhalter could have had 8 of 10 WC starters on the field for all of 2019 and integrated those other guys as they broke through. Instead, 2019 was completely wasted.
It's all revisionist history. Complaining about Paul Arriola getting caps in 2019... when Gio Reyna had not yet made his professional debut, Tim Weah had 6 professional appearances to his name, and Brenden Aaronson was in his first MLS season. Case in point. Luca de la Torre. Who had appeared 7 times in the Championship (and 0 in the Premier League) in four years with Fulham as of summer 2020. Might as well also complain about not integrating Musah sooner, even though he had yet to make his professional debut and was still playing for England U17. What had those players done in 2019 to show that they warranted inclusion in the pool?
Forgot about him. He would have been in the mix, but not an obvious starter for me. You realize folks on here over hype every single MLS player. He had some good moments and there were signs of issues. My guess is he would be exposed at a higher level, just like every other MLS player was. Remer how great everyone on hear was saying Zimmermqn was back in October. Clear #1 CB. All it took was a team of Wales level to shatter that BS narrative.
There is a balance between calling players away from their clubs and them earning key roles with their clubs. The short term trade off is real which is why DLT declined 2021 GC for Heracles preseason. Players abroad who are not established starters with their clubs might not want to lose their spots, especially to play a off cycle GC, or 1 away WCQ qualifier, or sit the bench.