Has there ever been a Brazil Squad with more All-Time Greats than 1966?

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Gregoriak, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    If you look at that squad, there`s an awesome amount of talent - some of the greatest players of the 1958 & 1962 Brazil World Champions plus some of the finest (yet rising) stars of the legendary 1970 team.

    On paper, this squad should have meant serious business ... Check it out (Greats highlighted):

    Gilmar
    Dejalma Santos

    Fidelis
    Bellini
    Brito
    Altair
    Orlando
    Paulo Henrique
    Rildo
    Pele
    Gerson

    Manga
    Denilson
    Lima
    Zito
    Garrincha
    Jairzinho

    Alcindo
    Silva
    Tostao
    Parana
    Edu

    An awe-inspiring ensemble actually, kinda like a "best of 1962 and 1970" team, sans the great inspirator Didi.

    Is there a Brazil squad that rivals this in terms of World Cup star power?

    Was it all due to Pelé`s injury that this team failed so miserably, or were there other reasons?
     
  2. Camisa5

    Camisa5 New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    ...what went wrong then!!
     
  3. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    Have a look at their opponents and the results they got:

    First match, 12 July 1966, Liverpool:

    Brazil 2 Bulgaria 0
    Brazil: Gilmar - D.Santos, Bellini, Altair, Paulo Henrique - Denilson, Lima - Garrincha [1], Alcindo, Pelé [1], Jairzinho.
    Bulgaria: Naidenov - Shalamanov, Penev, Vutzov, Gaganelov - Kitov, Yetshev - Dermendjiev, Asparouchov, Yakimov, Kolev.

    Second match, 15 July 1966, Liverpool:

    Hungary 3 Brazil 1
    Hungary: Gelei - Matrei, Kaposzta, Meszöly [1], Sipos - Szepesi, Mathesz - Rakosi, Bene [1], Albert, Farkas [1].
    Brazil: Gilmar - D.Santos, Bellini, Altair, Paulo Henrique - Gerson, Lima - Garrincha, Alcindo, Tostao [1], Jairzinho.

    Third match, 19 July 1966, Liverpool:

    Portugal 3 Brazil 1
    Portugal: Pereira - Morais, Baptista, Lucas, Conceicao - Coluna, Graca - Augusto, Eusebio [2], Torres, Simoes [1].
    Brazil: Manga - Fidelis, Brito, Orlando, Rildo [1] - Denilson, Lima - Jairzinho, Silva, Pelé, Parana.

    Final Table Group 3:

    1. Portugal 6-0 9:2
    2. Hungary 4-2 7:5
    3. Brazil 2-4 4:6
    4. Bulgaria 0-6 1:8
     
  4. Camisa5

    Camisa5 New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Er, yes! I know the results. What happened though?
     
  5. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    I don`t know - that`s what I was asking!
     
  6. Camisa5

    Camisa5 New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    They were outplayed by Hungary and Portugal kicked them out of it!!
     
  7. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, looking at those line ups, Portugal wasn't sending out a bad team either.
     
  8. tpmazembe

    tpmazembe Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    The Midfield (S.Fla)
    It’s an interesting question, in the future when people look at France’s roster at Japan/Korea the same questions will be posed.

    Here are some of the ingredients that came together and led to the debacle.

    a)Poor Planning. The Selecao was subject to local club politics, as each team wanted to get players in to a tournament they felt certain to win. Forty-four players (44) players were called-up for the pre-tournament camp! A full half were then discarded before embarking for England.

    b)Many of the players were close to their sell-by date. Garrincha for example no longer had the explosion in the first step that made his moves so unstoppable. He could still do it in spurts, but was a shadow of his former self. The back line was very old with D.Santos (still a class player) and Bellini, though they still had some life in them.

    c)It was a squad in transition. A winning generation was beginning to make way for a new generation that included Gerson (though already a veteran player), Edu, Tostao, Jairzinho et al. Historically these types of transitional teams don’t triumph at WC’s unless played at home.

    d)They went up against some quality opposition. Both Hungary and Portugal had stellar squads. Everyone knows of Portugal’s Benfica laden squad with Eusebio and Coluna. Hungary had probably their last great team with a Albert and Bene. Though not often mentioned in discussions, Albert was one of the great players of the decade, and of the last half of the century.

    e)For the final game against Portugal the coaching staff panicked and aligned a still injured Pele, and made wholesale changes from the first two games. Basically, a whole new team played the most important do-or-die game. In the three games played in the first round 21 of the 22 players on the squad saw playing time! Only Edu, at 16 years of age, didn’t see action.

    f)Finally, and most importantly, Pele’s injury from the first game unbalanced the team. He was the best player in the world at the time (my apologies to those who think it was Best) and the team counted on his ability to create and score goals. Not only were they deprived of his services after game one (the only game they won), but in game three, after he was hacked, they effectively played down one man (no substitutions). Tostao wrote a great article awhile back about the impact of playing with Pele for the whole tournament in '70 that is worth searching.

    Thank goodness for WC'70...it removed the bitter taste.
     
    argentine soccer fan repped this.
  9. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    That`s the sort of insightful reply I hoped for! Very interesting. I appreciate especially that you took that time despite being busily occupied with your job at the moment.

    Garrincha was 32 in 1966 and had only played in 11 matches (1 goal) from 1963 to 1966 in the Brazilian leagues - which makes one wonder why he was recalled to play for Brazil in the '66 World Cup. I think Jairzinho wasn`t too happy with suddenly having to play outside left.

    Why was Gerson not a regular for Brazil at that time? He was no youngster and had the right age.

    I didn`t know Edu was that young in 1966.

    You are of course right that Brazil was in the middle of a transition phase at that time. It`s just that the 1966 squad is so overlooked when it comes to Brazil`s World Cup history despite probably having the most impressive lineup of all Brazil World Cup squads ever. People talk about 1958 & 1962 and then about 1970, with only Pelé as connection between the two teams, that`s why I found it interesting that there was actually a "best of" team of 1962 and 1970 (unfortunate for them to have underperformed so badly).
     
  10. Camisa5

    Camisa5 New Member

    Mar 28, 2004
    Edu to this day is the youngest ever player to appear in a Brazil WC squad
     
  11. BongartzUndRivera

    Sep 24, 2004
    NYC
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    I think the Brazil '66 teams could be a bit compared to the Argentine WC94 team. Even without Maradona they had great players such as Redondo and Batistuta adn amny others, but could not get very long.

    The other thing I would like to bring out is thatl I think an All-Star team doesn't neccessarily make a team win.
    I see a big reason of the failiur of the recent big tournaments by big teams, such as Italy, France, Argentina and etc.....

    In the past an National team was also a real team comapred to the commercially involved NTs these days.
    Maybe the success of the smaller football nation came from those old school team method (Coach is God), comapred to some of the All-Star teams bringing a Legend at the seat to calm the ego within the star players.

    One other thing, I would like to mention is that I think Argentian's best ever squad was the WC82 squad having Kempes, Passarella, Ardiles hooked up with Ramon Diaz and Maradona.

    People say Pele won coz he was surrounded by other greats, but hey Diego could not manage to win WITH other greats. ;)

    The '82 Sqaud was......

    Osvaldo Ardiles
    Hector Baley
    Juan Alberto Barbas
    Daniel Bertoni
    Gabriel Calderon
    Ramón Angel Diaz
    Ubaldo Fillol
    Luis Galvan
    Americo Gallego
    Diego Maradona
    Mario Kempes
    Patrício José Hernández
    Julio Olarticoechea
    Jorge Olguin
    Daniel Passarella
    Nery Pumpido
    Santiago Santamaria
    Alberto Tarantini
    Enzo Trossero
    Jorge Valdano
    Daniel Valencia
    Jose Van Tuyne

    Coach: Cesar Luis Menotti
     
  12. Beckham7

    Beckham7 Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Northern, California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shouldn't Romario be considered an all-time great?
     
  13. Arthur - Zico´s fan

    May 6, 2005
    Niteroi - Brazil
    My all-time greats from Brazil are (see if you guys agree):

    Pelé
    Zico
    Garrincha
    Didi
    Rivelino
    Falcão
    Jairzinho
    Ronaldinho
    Romário
    Júnior
    Sócrates

     
  14. arun10

    arun10 Member

    May 31, 2005
    1982 Bazilian TEAM was the best ever NT ..not only from Brazil. It was considered and still being considered as the best ever Team.
     
  15. Mane_Garrincha

    Mane_Garrincha New Member

    Jun 20, 2004
    Canada
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Pele didn't play that world cup, he was taken out by a vicous tackle in one of their very first games when they played Portugal. That's basically what went wrong for Brazil. England's squad was no push over either though. Even the 1970 squad had a hard time with them and to me that was far better than team than the '66 squad.
     
  16. Caribbean boy

    Caribbean boy New Member

    Nov 17, 2004
    barbados westindies
    THIS TEAM HAS POTENTIAL TO BE A ALL TIME GREAT!!!!


    ----------------------------------DIDA--------------------------------

    --Cafu------------------Alex------------Edmilson/Lucio------------ Roberto carlos

    -------------------------------Emerson---------------------------------------

    -------------------Kaka--------Ronaldinho-------Robinho---------------------

    --------------------Ronaldo------------------Adriano---------------------------


    I can hear the samba drums beating already!!!!
     
  17. Mane_Garrincha

    Mane_Garrincha New Member

    Jun 20, 2004
    Canada
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil


    Looks good on paper but they have to produce on the pitch as well :)
     
  18. Latin Pride

    Latin Pride Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    In your house
    Club:
    Olimpia Asuncion
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I can hear the samba drums all the way to the finals....... ;) :D
     
  19. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Looks awful on paper unless Emerson has the tournamnet of his life and Roberto Carlos and Cafu gain even more recovery speed than they have.
     
  20. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Which at this point in their careers looks less likely. I know Cafu is practically superhuman, but at some point he will start breaking down...........right?
     
  21. Caribbean boy

    Caribbean boy New Member

    Nov 17, 2004
    barbados westindies

    U could put another tough guy in the middle with Emerson and leave out robinho but it was fun to put robinho in the mix! Brazils mentality is to score more than the opponents :D :D
     

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