I started following European football properly during the 96-97 season (although I'd mostly watched fairly little between Euros 2000 and 2004, which isn't inherently irrelevant to assessing Figo here). I'm not sure I'm even slightly younger than yourself, but I agree you come across as very badly dated when you bring this type of heat.
I’m trying to follow the logic here Luis Figo was supposedly an inferior talent to Neymar and Neymar Jr somehow has not overtaken Ronaldinho What makes Figo an inferior player to Neymar and what makes Neymar an inferior player to Ronaldinho? I know people may not like it but there was a time that Ronaldinho could hide his dreadful record of G+A in the CL behind certain claims that he “destroyed big teams like no other player did since Diego Maradona” Teams like Milan and Chelsea in particular We now know that claim is 100% bullshit His grades absolutely do not reflect that reality Sofascore whether people like it or not has exposed and buried that myth for eternity and beyond What he has is a 3 year peak and I am willing to debate anyone that his 2004/05 season was not better than any season Neymar had between 2014/15 and 2019/20 even those PSG seasons where Neymar missed 50% of games Ronaldinho 04/05 was also completely inferior to Figo in his last season for Barcelona and his first for Real Madrid In 03/04 Ronaldinho was absurdly good on the ball but he did not play in the champions league Not his fault of course but that fact still remains Some suggestions also seem to be that he struggled to make an impression(along with Barcelona as a whole) before Edgar David’s joined in the second half of 2003/04 I have heard this repeated many times but I will have to watch Ronaldinhos performances in the first half of La Liga 2003/04 and compare them to his performances in the second half of la liga 2003/04 to see if there is any truth to this 2005/06 is the only season Ronaldinho ticked all boxes And even then there are holes to puncture if one really wanted to Particularly in his over reliance on penalties(once again) and his SF ratings in the 2005/06 CL do not paint a picture of a peak that few players in history could emulate Just for the record I know exactly how a player like Neymar cheats the algorithm so I’m not deluded enough to think Sofascore is an argument in favour of him and against Ronaldinho
Why Experts are Almost Always Wrong Why Are Experts So Often Wrong? "Therefore we can see that the word expert means someone who has acquired particular expertise in a specific domain." "Being an expert does not therefore mean that a person’s intellectual capabilities extend beyond the confines of the domain they have mastered. Nor does it mean they understand the implications of the information they work with. This is of enormous importance. Ordinary people often assume that if a person has expertise in a particular area then they must be capable of all manner of other cognitively demanding tasks. But that is simply not so. Experts are usually no better than anyone else at understanding cause-and-effect, even within their domain of expertise, and they may be no better at anyone else when it comes to predicting future outcomes. Indeed, it’s frequently the case that experts are actually very bad at predicting future outcomes within their domain because of the many biases they accumulate over the course of time." "Likewise, ordinary people generally imbue doctors with superhuman powers. Unfortunately, while doctors are trained to diagnose a wide range of illnesses and ailments, they have almost no training in epidemiology, biochemistry, how hormones and neurochemistry interact, or in fact in any of the many essential branches of scientific knowledge that are required in order to make adequate assessments of medical issues. "Moreover, doctors spend so much time viewing the world from inside the confines of their profession with its various assumptions and biases that the track record of doctors is extremely poor when it comes to advising on health-related policy decisions. As the adage goes, “for a hammer, every problem is a nail.” In this, doctors have the same set of incentives as we saw influencing intelligence analysts." "This constrains the mental performance of experts and ordinary people alike." "And so, when we combine an inability to understand the bigger picture with an insatiable appetite for empty sensation, it’s obvious that most of the time most humans regardless of profession or expertise will simply get things wrong. We filter what we experience based on our existing beliefs and prejudices, which means real-world information is suppressed automatically by our brains so that we can be spared the unpleasant and calorie-consuming task of attempting to modify our beliefs. Countless studies have proven this to be true. In addition, our brains perform shortcuts all the time, and we’re totally unaware of them." "What all this means is that a one-size-fits-all mentality will always be wrong. People prefer to abdicate responsibility for thinking about things because we’re hardwired to do that. What does the leader think? OK, that’s good enough for me! We see this phenomenon all the time: ordinary people say things like, “well, X thinks this and X is smart so it must be true.” Technically this is called the argument from authority and it’s been consistently wrong throughout all of human history. But we just can’t help ourselves from falling back on it because it saves calories." "Recent studies have shown that a tiny percentage of humans have brains that aren’t completely trapped inside the doom-loop of self-reinforcing false beliefs. Such people are called “super predictors” because of their high success rate at predicting the outcomes of events ordinary people believe will create entirely different outcomes." "Meanwhile, ordinary people hate changing their minds and they hate other people changing their minds too, because this introduces uncomfortable uncertainty. Any politician unwise to alter their public statements merely because of reality is labeled a “flip-flopper” and will see their support drain away. Experts are no less eager to find simple answers to complex problems. This is why expert predictions are so often wrong." "Experts, therefore, are valuable because of their technical expertise. I want my surgeon to be an expert, and I want the pilot flying the aircraft in which I’m sitting to be an expert. But if I want to know the most likely future outcomes, I’m going to ignore the experts." "Super predictors reliably out-perform even Nobel laureates, because what matters most isn’t technical expertise within a given discipline; it’s the manner in which we deal with the information available to us." "So the next time you hear about an expert telling you what’s going to happen, try to bear in mind that they’re almost certainly totally wrong." - Allan Milne Lees
I will answer honestly for you, my spiritual brother, well, Ronaldinho Gaucho participated in a fraudulent scheme involving FIFA, CBF, Nike, Joga Bonito, Barcelona and the World media. And all the participants were jailed for a long time to make him "Ronaldinho Gaucho" the best player in the world, like Ronaldo Nazario in 1996. Just because he transferred to Barcelona in 1996, he was automatically elected for the FIFA World player of the Year award in that season 1995/1996 the best player of the World for to achieve .. 1 KNVB cup for PSV it is enough to win this Award ????? , already because of the transfer and the global marketing, based on his name. Automatically, Figo after a terrible World Cup in 2002. Nike chose or choose Ronaldinho Gaucho as the new golden player from this company. " Nike the golden boy .... to generate ... billion Of USD Dollars in 2003/2004 ... Robert Pires Patrick Vieira Thierry Henry ... Didier Drogba A.. Schevchenko Deco Ruben Baraja ......Valence Carlos .......Tevez ....Boca Juniors .. Roberto Ayala ....................Valence Ricardo Kaká Adriano ...Drunk ... all were better than Ronaldinho Gaucho ... in whole season ... Ronaldinho ..shakes against ...Celtic ...Uefa Cup .. away-game ... against Celtic ... he shoots just once in the whole ... shoots with left foot ... totally wrong.... he stays totally free against Celtic's goalkeeper ... finalizes ...very very poorly ..and very bad ... 1 Shot attempts 0 Shots on Target against ... real Real Zaragoza David Villa .... was much more decisive than Ronaldinho 2003/2004 Copa del Rey de la Spain Ronaldinho fans are the most demented people I have ever met in my entire life... he got that shot right against Sevilla...once in a lifetime... but his Ronaldinho's fans think he was a greater specialist in Shoots from Distance......... curly balls ....place shots ...shoots with power ..shot Technique .. we know that is a great lie... so ... Figo ... won .. the Awards .. when ... there was interest but Brazilian players before the C. Ronaldo and Lionel Messi era... always had the advantage in this scheme FIfa ...CBF ...Nike ..Joga Bonito ...and Barcelona 's players ...
" Ronaldinho 04/05 was also completely inferior to Figo in his last season for Barcelona and his first for Real Madrid " financial interests and interests of making Ronaldinho Gaucho the best in the world... so that everyone can earn a lot of money on this the King, the Prince and the Court Jester everyone is happy and romantic stories to tell after all time is money at all
Lamine Yamal ... is much better than all others 3 players ,,,..Neymar Jr... Luis Figo or Ronaldinho ... It's a matter of being lucky not to get too injured... quickly ... as happened with Marco van Basten and Ruud Gullit these injuries really hindered their rise in World Football . "!
Can you extrapolate on this particular opinion? I personally think Neymar is as close as humanly possible, to a footballer cramming as many highlight worthy plays into a single match. I believe one of Neymar's most valuable assets as a player was his insane levels of stamina, and the correlated gift of being able to attempt such plays over and over again, from minute one to ninety. He did overestimate his own individual prowess, but they were magnificent nonetheless. I think that's where the heavy praise for his talent comes from.
Neymar Jr the choke artist god A study conducted by Belgian university KU Leuven researchers Jesse Davis and Pieter Robberechts, in collaboration with intelligence company SciSports, says Ronaldo is "immune" to the sort of pressure that Neymar crumbles under and that the PSG forward "chokes under stress." Davis and Robberechts analyzed approximately 7,000 matches in seven competitions to determine how athletes in professional soccer perform in clutch situations, and will present their research in full at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston on March 1. The KU Leuven graph below shows Cristiano Ronaldo is largely unfazed regardless of whether there's pressure or no pressure when it comes to decision-making or execution. Meanwhile, Neymar's decision-making is poor under pressure. KU Leuven "Mental pressure has already been extensively studied in sports such as baseball and basketball, but in football this is uncharted territory," Professor Davis of the Department of Computer Science said. "That's why we have developed a model that uses machine learning to estimate how much mental pressure is experienced by the player in possession of the ball. The model analyzes how this player performs under pressure: which decision does he make, is the chosen action executed well, and how much impact does the chosen action have on the outcome of the match?" Neymar 'chokes under stress' The research note adds that Ronaldo's "performances are constant." This is in stark contrast to Neymar who "seems to choke under stress. He makes poorer decisions when there's a lot of pressure." Speaking exclusively to BI, Davis added: "Our research suggests that when under pressure, Neymar may fall back on his individual talent to make a play. For example, he takes more speculative shots or tries to take on a defender by dribbling, whereas passing to a teammate would be a better choice." KU Leuven said the research is important because of the impact it can have within the soccer industry. The learnings would benefit coaches and decision-makers alike, for example, when determining whether to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on an athlete. A clutch player would likely be worth the money, but a player who buckles under the pressure like Neymar, who is linked with a big-money move to Real Madrid, may not be worth the investment. https://www.businessinsider.com/ney...-pressure-cristiano-ronaldo-thrives-on-2019-2 The G+A record of Neymar in ‘finals’ is a complete illusion if anybody wants to debate on that let me know
This has made me think that Ronaldinho was actually a kind of player akin to Beppe Signori. With the difference that Signori would produce significantly less legwork and touches, and significantly more goals.
Yamal has a road to travel. Roaldinho has 22 picks for ESM's team of the month (Figo and Neymar have 12). At Figo's peak (97-00), he was beaten by a good margin in G+A by team-mate Rivaldo. Rivaldo and Figo were both playmakers (unlike Eto, who was a centre-forward). Ronaldinho hasn't been surpassed in g+a by deco or giuly. For those of us who were adults at the time, it's a bit strange to see players who were ‘robins’ being compared to ‘batmans’, supporting players to protagonists, based on data from different eras or in an agenda As frustrating as Ronaldinho's career has been, there is a difference.
Lamine Yamal 24/25 played in 13 CL matches Ronaldinho gaucho 05/06 played in 12 CL matches ————————————- Lamine Yamal 24/25 played in 13 CL matches Algorithm fraudster 19/20 played in 7 CL matches —————————————- Lamine Yamal 24/25 played in 13 matches Neymar 14/15 played in 12 matches
Sexybeast can’t seem to grasp the difference between two completely separate concepts Experts giving predictions about future events that haven’t happened yet is not the same as experts giving their opinions on things they’ve actually seen or experienced. No one’s saying that anybody(including experts) can predict the future with 100% accuracy everyone knows that and we certainly do not need Allan Milne Lees to tell us that sexybeast keeps twisting what’s being said, acting like people are making predictions when they’re clearly not. Roberto Carlos wasn’t saying Figo might end up better than Messi one day. He said Figo was better. That’s coming from someone who played with Figo, played against him, and also played against Messi. He’s speaking from direct first hand experience. Whether you agree with him or not is a separate issue and this is the thread to discuss that. Most people myself included think he’s completely wrong on this one. Personally I think in this instance he is way off the mark as anyone could possibly be But that doesn’t take away from the fact that this opinion comes from someone who actually played at that level and that means something If a poster like @Gregoire can have a voice on this thread then Roberto Carlos absolutely can aswell Make of that what you will The Allan Milne Lees quote doesn’t apply here it applies to people making predictions about the future predictions like this Pele Edson Arantes do Nascimento “Neymar can become better than Messi.” https://telegrafi.com/en/pele-neymar-can-be-better-than-messi/amp/
When Pelé said this “Neymar is a good player, but how many goals has he scored with his head in his life? Vasconcelos was 10 times better than Neymar, without any doubt.” https://www.beinsports.com/en-mena/football/la-liga/articles/pele-neymar-only-knows-how-to-attack-1 You don’t need to believe Vasconcelos was literally 10 times better than Neymar but you do need to understand that Vasconcelos was clearly a phenomenal player. Even if you strip away the bias Pelé had towards his former teammates Even if you factor in his old school prejudice against modern players Even if you say he was senile at this point of his life The fact remains Pelé was still Pelé. He wouldn’t call a player “10 times better than Neymar” unless that player was at the very least elite world class and had seriously impressed him. Same thing with Roberto Carlos. Yes, he’s Brazilian, and that comes with ‘national pride’ and rivalry with Argentina. Yes, he played for Real Madrid, and that brings the inevitable bias against Barcelona. So sure he’s not completely impartial (and no one is anyways even though some pretend they are) But if he says Figo was better than Messi, you have to read between the lines. Figo was at the very least an unbelievable player. Even if in reality, he was nowhere near Messi’s level IMO the comparison itself tells you something. You can bet your entire life savings that Roberto Carlos would not say Rodrygo or Vinicius Jr are better than Messi as good as the champions league winning Brazilian/Real Madrid players are
Messi ... Pelé ....Lamine Yamal ...Puskas ..Di Stefano ...C. Ronaldo is another group Of players ....already ... Figo even don't came closer never never never ...
We do not have a separate brain for predictions and separate brain for "opinions". The same errors, biases, fallacies people make when making a prediction, they do when stating an opinion. Validity of analysis is essentially determined by its predictive power. Prediction is an extension of analysis. You cant make an analysis without implying future. If I say player X is more talented than player Y then that means that, in normal circumstances, I say player X will demonstrate more talent than player Y. Saying that great footballers know more about football than others is to say that they are better at predicting outcomes in football, because they have deeper insight into dynamocs of football. Saying that Figo is better than Messi is the same as saying that, on equal terms, Figo would perform better than Messi. Opinion is not devoided of its implications. The whole evolutionary point of thinking is to "predict" the future. ChatGPT (Move your mouse to reveal the content) ChatGPT (open) ChatGPT (close) The Evolutionary Point of Thinking 1. Survival and Adaptation: The primary evolutionary function of thinking is to enhance survival. Thinking allows for anticipation of threats, planning of actions, and problem-solving, all of which are crucial for survival. It enables an organism to assess potential dangers, remember past experiences, and make strategic decisions that increase the chances of survival and reproduction. 2. Social Navigation and Cooperation: Thinking enables complex social structures by allowing individuals to predict others' intentions, navigate social hierarchies, and form alliances. The development of theory of mind (understanding others' mental states) is a direct result of this evolutionary pressure. Social cohesion and cooperation are essential for survival in group-living species, including humans. 3. Tool Use and Innovation: The ability to think abstractly allows for the invention and use of tools. This capacity for creative problem-solving gives an adaptive advantage in acquiring food, defending against predators, and manipulating the environment to meet survival needs. 4. Communication and Culture: Language is a product of complex thinking. It allows for the transfer of knowledge across generations, fostering cumulative cultural evolution. Thinking in abstractions enables the formation of shared narratives, social norms, and collective identities, which stabilize groups and promote cooperative behavior. 5. Predictive Modeling and Strategic Planning: Thinking enables the construction of mental models to simulate potential outcomes, predict consequences, and strategize effectively. This foresight helps in risk assessment, decision-making, and long-term planning, crucial for surviving fluctuating environments. 6. Self-Reflection and Identity: Metacognition (thinking about thinking) allows for self-reflection, self-regulation, and identity formation. This ability to evaluate one's own actions and intentions fosters learning from past experiences and aligning behavior with long-term goals. 7. Existential Processing: Thinking also serves a more abstract function—processing existential and philosophical concerns. This may not have direct survival value but could be a byproduct of highly developed cognitive capacities. The ability to ponder meaning, purpose, and mortality might contribute to forming cohesive cultural systems that provide stability and motivation. In essence, thinking is a multi-functional cognitive adaptation that has evolved to navigate complex physical, social, and existential realities. Its value lies in its versatility: it allows for immediate problem-solving, long-term planning, and the construction of shared realities that bind groups together. Now you are moving away from the initial premise: To be a great footballer you need expertise that not many reach and therefore they understand football better To new topic: That it is the first hand experience that matters. This is different because first hand experience of playing with or against certain players have many players who are not deemed great, yet their opinion is nto argued for in thsi conversation. The initial argument is specifically about GREAT FPOTBALLERS, not about first hand experience. Regarding first hand experience, i dont doubt that playing with Figo and against Messi was a magnificent experience amd eye openning in terms of seeing there are levels to this game. However, the issue is not that experience of it wasnt remarkable, but it is about the way human brain works and makes sense of experience. I trust the experience was magnificient, I simply dont trust that Roberto Carlos, being a great footballer, has any greater understanding of football. The first hand experience is often the very thing that stands in the way of reason and critical thinking. But whatever mate. I know you will keep acting as if I am speaking gibberish while I am the only one who is actually questioning things here, thinking critically and scratching beyond the surface. That is my prediction because I've seen the pattern. You will keep avoiding real questions because it makes you uncomfortable and forces you to face your own words and stances, and great footballers will keep being wrong, because of expert's blind spots.
Please don’t force me to switch my attention towards Ruud Gullit please Or I will dissect his farmer league goals without mercy
Sir Nobody is asking you to defer to the “greater understanding” of Roberto Carlos about footballing ability or accomplishments All I am asking you is to respect that he is more qualified to speak on this subject than your average casual fan with no experience playing football or even any real affinity to the game I am on record here saying Roberto Carlos lied about Ronaldo nazarios stroke before the 1998 World Cup final Yes lied and I don’t care what anyone says I have an eyewitness expert who preceded me in that Roberto Carlos can ‘diagnose’ Ronaldo nazario with one thousand different medical conditions and I can flatly reject every single one because his field of expertise is football and not medicine The team doctor with 40 years experience said he lied in front of a Brazilian senate But when Roberto Carlos talks about footballing ability I listen to what he says and I research/look into what he says You being too arrogant and ‘intellectual’ to accept this will be to your own detriment If there is any merit to what he says I will take it on board and if there isn’t then I will flat out reject it Roberto Carlos’s career as footballer at the absolute highest of levels(winner of the World Cup,Copa America and champions league as an integral player) necessities that he has valuable insight to provide as far as the beautiful game is concerned Most players who have reached these heights(especially the ones who haven’t been dumbed out by the social media era)are also football historians of sorts To mention him again Pele is actually one of the greatest football historians I have come across and when you sieve through the BS he said every so often you would come to realise that. If you read through his interviews there are real gems in many of them that you will hardly find anywhere else. Maradona had great knowledge of the game even if tactically he could never implement his ideas on the pitch as a manager But in terms of history he knew his stuff Cruyff,beckenbaur and Zidane had the best of everything(accomplished players,football historians and could implement their ideas on the pitch post playing career with huge success) I will end with this I’m a firm believer that everyone is entitled to express his or her opinion but not every person who expresses an opinion deserves to be given a real listening ear Some people do not deserve to be listened to full stop and when it comes to football Roberto Carlos absolutely does not fit into that category even if you desperately want him to.