Has Neymar jr surpassed Luis figo

@carlito86 the stats in that graphic and the video account for his league play for the most part. Sure Ligue 1 is 6th now, yet with a Monaco win 2 nights ago they could have been back to 5th, or maybe a few more results - that can't be the difference between "best to have ever played the game" and 0.
The truth is probably that exploits in Ligue 1 don't really add much, especially for the OP PSG team and haven't done so in a while (unless it's a truly extraordinary season like Ibra's last one). But you were okay with Ligue 1 when comparing Neymar to Figo (95-05 La Liga), and adding some group stage in there is surely a very low bar for a player so talented. If there is something even less competitive than Ligue 1 it is the group stages for the top sides in Europe. I think I can see what has prompted your sudden realization about Ligue 1.

In PSG's defence, I don't see much difference with the situation at Bayern where Leipzig lost Upamecano (to Bayern) and Konate to go with Werner last season, Dortmund lost Sancho, Leverkusen lost Bailey to go with Havertz last season and so on. Serie A and La Liga are levelling out a little bit with very competitive sides in the top 8 for Italy (Juve, Inter, Milan, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Atalanta, Sassuolo) and the top 4 in Spain (Atletico, Madrid, Barca, Sevilla). I think in England there is a clear gap between the top 4 and the rest once again but still more competitive than France and Germany where the gap between number 1 and the rest is really massive at this point.
What's disingenuous is the change in appreciation for Ligue 1 that you had not long back, and assuming it's genuine, I wonder how you'll judge Lewandowski in the BuLi this coming season or even sticking to that, how can we judge performances by Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United against the bottom half clubs? I'm assuming, at worst a team like Lyon, Lille or Monaco would ordinarily at least make the top half. Then if performances against them don't account for anything at all, I wonder what does for any player in a top European team.

 

Barcelona lost 3-0 to Juve on aggregate. Neymar's 15 dribbles did not destroy Juve really, he embarassed his countryman a few times but the danger came from two Messi passes in the first leg, to Suarez and Iniesta.

And also while Neymar undeniably has some really top performances such as the PSG one you mention and even the 4-0 against Madrid at the Bernabeu that you don't mention, Figo too has some stellar showings such as against Chelsea and England in 2000 and United in 2003.

If Ligue 1 counts for 0 as you say (or very little surely when they were 5th in the coefficients as opposed to 6th), then Neymar would really need to tear up the CL to make up for the years Figo spent in a top class league. This without accounting for the support cast each had around them in their prime.

 

@carlito86
Whichever Chelsea that was, that match was going wrong for Barcelona and Figo stepped up.
It's as though we said PSG was a team that always crumbled in Europe and judge Neymar's performance from that perspective - a very slippery path to go. And what does it matter if Zidane and Raul were equally good as Figo against Manchester United? In one of Neymar's more iconic performances (Madrid 15-16), Iniesta and Suarez were arguably just as good and Iniesta actually received an ovation from the Madridistas if I'm not wrong.

As for Neymar's Liga stint, of course that counts (as does his time in Ligue 1). I'm not the one reducing anyone's contribution to zero. But 4 years against 10 years is tough. Even if I was to agree that Neymar hit higher peaks (arguable), the longevity of Figo counts for something. And he didn't coast either, he led La Liga in assists over that decade and I'd wager he did the same for dribbles too. In that duration he has a claim to being the best player in the world for 2 years. If for parity, we remove Messi & Ronaldo, how many years/seasons has Neymar been the best in the world?

Lastly, Figo had a brilliant performance against Real Madrid in 1999-00, just off the top of my head.

But in any case, I only revived this debate to point out the change in view of Ligue 1 so suddenly when so recently playing 15-20 games a season there is all it took to be an all-time great. If it was a great measuring stick for the first half of 2017-18 (sprinkled in with some UCL groupstage matches), then it surely is still good enough now.

 

Arguably from 2014/2015 to 2019/2020? But more so between 2015-2016 to 2018-2019?

 

Given how injury-prone Neymar was, I think in 18-19, VVD has to be above him, and in 19-20, Lewandowski also. So I think the period is shorter perhaps?

 

Talk about class and not form. 15/16 to 18/19 seems about right to me.

 

I'm talking of form, performance etc. If it's talent alone then he's been the best outside of Messi/Ronaldo for the best part of a decade

 

2014/15 - Luis Suarez, Eden Hazard, Cesc Fabregas
2015/16 - Luis Suarez, Ngolo Kante
2016/17 - Ngolo Kante, Edinson Cavani
2017/18 - Mo Salah, Kevin Dr Bruyne
2018/19 - Virgil Van Dijk, Eden Hazard

I'd give him 2014/15 but would struggle to make an argument for any other season since.

 

I'd have Neymar over Fabregas in 2015 for sure. Agree with you about Suarez. Others as Robben can be thrown in as well (Robben also consistently great against the Real Madrid caliber teams in 2016-17).

Fabregas tailed off enormously in the second half of the season and depended on set pieces a lot. Was also pretty bad for the national team (when I saw him playing, against NED as well, was exposed against France). In the CL he was good against Schalke, Maribor and Sporting CP - but then vs PSG in the first knock-out a liability imho.

Kante is obviously a very different player, so fair enough. But don't see how Fabregas gets ahead of Neymar, who if anything showed up when the trophies started to count.

 

2014/2015 isn't clear cut I agree, but 2015/2016 Neymar was better than all of them including Suarez imo (it was more obv. when Messi was out tho), the same for 2016/2017, 2017/2018 it is ok to give De Bruyne and Salah as they performed all the season at high level, 2018/2019 I prefer Neymar over Hazard. VVD is a defender.

But anyway moving to Barcelona (playing in Messi's shadow) and then to PSG (injured many times, all of them playing in French competitions...) actually tainted his legacy as a player, but he is a better player than Figo ever was.

 

@PuckVanHeel I was suggesting people he'd be in contention with rather than those better than him that season. For me 14/15 is his best chance as best in the world (minus Messi & Ronaldo). He scored in the QF, SF and Final of the CL and even in the Clasico defeat. Generally his play was good too throughout the season as opposed to other seasons where there is a dip or injury in the second half. Also agree about Arjen Robben especially in 14/15.

@Tropeiro the argument on who's better appears to me subjective and we've debated it enough. I'm talking of performances and in this context Figo was the best footballer in the world in 2000 and had a claim to being the best in 2001 which was a very open year.

Not sure what you mean by VVD is a defender? He has a strong claim to being the best in the world in 2018/19 (neck and neck with Messi). Both him and Kante have a strong case for a season each in a non-CR7/Messi reality despite being defensive players.

 

The difference is that PSG is a quite World Class team, Sporting and Ajax arent at the same level. The benchmark iat PSG are Messi, Neymar and Mbappe and other WC players. Ligue 1 is better rated in the ELO method too and it moves more money and quality players than the others.

But btw, I like the idea of good players outside of BIG 5 leagues.

One of them is Giorgian de Arrascaeta, a uruguayan Ponta-de-Lança (CAM/SS), playing for Flamengo, the best team in the Americas nowadays.

In the Brasileirão for Flamengo, Arrascaeta had direct contribution (excluding PKs) of 43% in Flamengo's goals at the rate of 0.93 per 90 (21 non-PK Goals, 28 Assists in 52.8 90s).

Ziyech had lesser average - 0.84 per 90 - and less contribution - 30,4% - than Girorgian.

The same applies to Bruno Fernandes, less average 0.68 per 90 and less non penalty contribution, 35%.

By the advanced data and methodology like the ones of FiveThirtyEight, Plus Minus, Bayesian models, VAEP data (how one player translate his level to another) or Smartscout data (also using the players as proxy) all of them had Brazilian League still at the top compared to the Portuguese or the Dutch one.

So Arrascaeta deserves a mention.. the uruguayan is 27 years old now, maybe "too old" for Europe, and a bit "risk" buy since Flamengo wants at least 30 million for the player and he has never played in the BIG5 leagues or in Europe.

I would say Giorgian is the best attack minded player in the Americas right now.
Great link up player, great passer, very good IQ, above average dribbler and ball carrier, great finisher. Can't see anyone with better level and performances than him, not in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, in any place.

 

Is it far to say Neymar highest seasonal peak would be 17-18?

He was better fed and given more scoring opportunities at Barcelona, and arguably his athleticism probably also allowed him to be a better dribbler.

However, I feel like his best role is probably at a playmaker, which he definitely showcased more of in PSG. It's hard to say because he keeps getting injured, but I think in 17/18, he still retained much of his goalscoring prowess and athleticism, something he's lost a bit in the last couple of years.

 

Neymar is absolutely ahead of a guy like Figo. I wish he would stay healthy for an entire season because he could actually win the Ballon D'Or. I feel like he is a bit stronger than when he was younger which makes him better at pushing off defenders and finishing in the box.

 

Neymar's best season was 2017/18 and he was surely better than De Bruyne. The amount of gamewinners he produced on weekly basis is incredible. He was also very good against Real in ucl that year..

People write off PSG's domestic success too easily. PSG won 4 leagues in the last 6 seasons. City also won 4 leagues in the last 6 seasons. If you ignore Liverpool for a minute, City won those leagues in a more dominant fashion than PSG. so is epl bad because of it? Is De Bruyne's legacy trash then? City won 2018/19 season basically without De Bruyne..

In those 6 seasons, City has reached one ucl final, just like PSG...

French league is not the best, but it is not walk in the park..

 

Watch this and tell me Figo was close to this monster:



Individually he is a super class player, problem was his club choices and his off-the-pitch behaviour.