Luis Suarez really got it going in a Liverpool shirt in 2013 (even if the quality was apparent before this the consistency wasn't) Its not a strange opinion to have that he wasn't even Uruguays best player between 2010-2012 if you are familiar with how Edison Cavani was tearing up Serie A. Neymar in 2012 is arguably the best player Brazilian domestic football has seen since Zico(his heyday) or arguably even Romario 2000(a different type of player so the comparison isn't so straight forward) I mean the guy was so good the Brazilian football federation made him ineligible to compete for the bola de oura citing he was unrivalled and it wouldn't be fair on other contenders The only other player to be awarded this distinction was Pele It was a running joke at the time( in Europe) that he was dribbling around statues in Brazil What can anyone say now about a player who has performances with 10+ dribbles completed against real Madrid and juventus in the champions league knockout stages? Nothing
that's also true, but keep in mind that this is a list of the best fowards, not the best players. According to this blog Best offensive lateral in the second half 1990s 1. Luis Figo (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Portugal) 2. Ryan Giggs (Man Utd, Wales) 3. Pavel Nedved (Lazio, Czech Republic) 4. David Beckham (Man Utd, England) 5. Marc Overmars (Arsenal, Natherlands) 6. Leonardo (Paris-SG, Milan, Brazil) 7. Steve Mcmanaman (Liverpool, England) 8. Luis Enrique (Barcelona, Spain) The First Half 2000s 1. Ronaldinho (Paris-SG, Barcelona, Brazil) 2. David Beckham (Man Utd, Real Madrid, England) 3. Ryan Giggs (Man Utd, Wales) 4. Robert Pires (Arsenal, France) 5. Luis Figo (Barcelona, Real Madrid, Portugal) 6. Mauro Camoranesi (Juventus, Italy) 7. Damien Duff (Blackbur, Chelsea, Ireland Republic)
I think 2012 version of Neymar was better than this 2021 version to be honest. Way faster. It seems like Neymar can't finish more nowadays: Copa America Final: two of the best attacking playmakers in the world battling it out. Should, hopefully, be fun. #CopaAmerica pic.twitter.com/mTaTNBdMQr— Hugh Klein (@macro_football) July 10, 2021
Neymar lost a CL final, Copa America final, watched his country win the previous Copa edition without him and the prime of his career has been ravaged by injuries. Extremely unlucky player who deserves more.
More astonishing when you realise Lionel messi 17/18 scored as many league goals as R9 1996/97 (doing so with the heat map of an attacking midfielder) He combined this with more dribbles per 90 then johan cruyff did in WC 1974 When you take all that into consideration and you have Neymar ahead by a considerable margin the only conclusion that can be reached is between August 2017 and March 2018 Neymar was one of the very best players to of ever played the game.
Yup, I know it sounds redundant as he gets injured almost every single year that he’s been on PSG but I hope that he accomplishes a lot this year and stays healthy. In terms of his raw impact on the game I think that when Neymar plays he is a top 2 player in football alongside Messi. The fact that he’s taken all of these challenges in Copa America gives me hope for the upcoming season that he will stay injury free
I'm not sure I would say Neymar is unlucky with injuries. Perhaps that's true, but maybe it's more a matter of him having to mature still and become a wiser and tougher player mentally and physically. Take for example Maradona from the player he was in 1982 to the player he became in 1986 and again in 1990, owing more so by that time to his maturity rather than his physicality. If Maradona had more of the physical qualities that were starting to desert him in 1990, then he almost certainly would have won the World Cup in 1990 too. Likewise, Pele didn't reach that point of maturity and physical toughness until he was older. This is partly why he was unable to have an impact in 1962 and 1966, despite his arrival in 1958. By 1970 he was wiser, more mature, and physically stronger. It's possible Neymar can reach their level by the time of the 2022 World Cup. He'll be just about the same age as Pele in 1970 and Maradona in 1990 by then. Probably then or never for him because physically it only get harder for him to play to the necessary standards by the time he's 33/34.
I disagree I think that Neymar possesses great mental toughness and his injuries come from unfair/unjustified tackles. Neymar as a player is actually not that injury prone most of his injuries result from his opponents directly trying to hurt him. Neymar rarely gets any muscle injuries and he is built like a cross-country runner. His frame is very slim and he has fantastic stamina which allows him to have an advantage over his opponents when the game goes into extra time. Regarding Neymar’s mental toughness, Neymar consistently bounces back from injuries and it looks like he hasn’t skipped a beat. In the 17/18 season he fractured his metatarsal but he managed to come back and play in the World Cup at an extremely high level
Neymar is at his peak now (arguably past it in fact), he can't became better, you argue that he needs to picks his moments less often, but for that you need to have better ball progressors in the team and not Richarlison, Cebolinha and Paquetá or Fred, Casemiro. He needs help. Maradona in 1990, for example, had enough speed and power to go from his markers and to assist Cannigia. Maradona was more explosive specimen than Neymar, the same for Pelé in 1970 (his stamina wasn't as high, but he can had some explosive moments that can define a match), also even Cristiano Ronaldo (who has now markedly less stamina, but still has speed enough to make his runs yet, less often the before of course). They are stronger physically while the minimum contact is enough to deny Neymar. On the point of getting stronger mentally or more mature, maybe... I think it's a matter of careers too. Neymar going to Barcelona made him a much worse player in many aspects in my opinion, even in the national team. Moving to Barcelona he denied himself the right to be truly placed as a standout player of his generation that could compete with Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Maradona, for example, has always been the leader of his teams, Pelé too, they were used to responsibility and were looking for it. Neymar spent four years at Barcelona as a supporting actor, where he could be irresponsible and childish and still applauded (as he was one the best "second" players Barcelona could have ever).
He's still 29 which is a great age for him. @Roble Maradona had his ankle broken. Pele got hurt badly at two World Cups. How did they overcome this treatment and ultimately get the better of their opponents? When Neymar figures this out, maybe he can reach their level.
Its not unprecedented either that the best is yet to come for him franck ribery reached his peak between August to December 2013(aged 31 years old)and Arjen robben around June 2014 to March 2015(31 years old aswell i think) https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/...ranck-Ribery-Frances-Man-for-the-Big-Occasion Even zlatan ibrahimovic recorded his highest seasonal average in 2015/16 He was 34 years old Of course there is Messi aswell His last truly great season across all club formats was 2018/19(aged 31 years old)
@PDG1978 At what point do you think Diego Maradona became a less capable dribbler and ball carrier threat then this version of Neymar You mentioned 1988/89 in the other thread but maybe it could be even earlier? Pes stats has recently upgraded his dribbling accuracy to 96 which is in the same range as Johan cruyff 71-74
I guess it can be intermittent depending on fitness/form but I'd have thought about 88/89 yeah maybe in general (or 1989 calendar year to be on the safe side?). That Werder Bremen game was in 89/90 actually wasn't it (in 1989 calendar year)....
Props to whoever made this comp Neymar really is one of the geniuses of football https://theanalyst.com/eu/2021/04/is-neymar-world-class/ Some fanboys here might dislike it but squawka has collated in depth data of 100s of players since the 2014/15 Neymar Jr in his 2017/18 guise was very arguably a better playmaker then Lionel messi has been at any point of his career 10~ categories were taken into consideration Touches per 90 Chances created per 90 Passes attempted per 90 Passes competed per 90 Succesful Long passes per 90 Crosses completed per 90 Through balls attempted per 90 Passes completed in the opposition half Forward passes per 90 Back/right/left sided passes per 90 https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/ In everything except long passes per 90 Neymar comes ahead Sometimes the difference is negligible and in others it is considerable When we have garbage assessments of people who consider Neymar a 'tier 2' playmaker on par with Gerd muller Or others like leadleader who believe that ronaldinho is 2 tiers ahead of Neymar in playmaking (when this literally isnt substantiated by not by one single iota of evidence) it is literally an uphill struggle validating Neymars true worth as a top 50 all timer(without injuries and more deep runs in the CL KO stages it would sureiy be even more)
If Neymar was in the SPL.... Remember this Neymar show against Celtic? Four assists and one goal. pic.twitter.com/oTbRs9nIum— FootballWTF (@FootballWTF247) December 10, 2019 1 goal 4 assists 6 dribbles completed 7 key passes 4 accurate crosses 104 touches against the most dominant Scottish domestic team of all time
https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022 Whatever Messi/Neymar/mbappe do this season in the league counts for=0 Bruno Fernandez achieved a stellar rating of 7.83 in the Portuguese primera division Hakim ziyech achieved an insane rating of 8.54 in the eredivisie(arguably the highest peak seen since van basten and Cruyff before him) 0.63 assists per 90 4 key passes per 90 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/115868/History/Hakim-Ziyech https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hak...ten/spieler/217111/saison/2018/wettbewerb/NL1 Neither player gained any recognition in the ballon dor This happened for a reason
Johan cruyff would've been completely ignored in the ballon dor weren't it for his European cup/world cup performances His highest scoring season 1966/67 is evidence of this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Ballon_d'Or Eusebio was also only a real ballon dor contender when he combined his form in the subpar Portuguese division with stellar performances in the European cup/world cup Eusebio 1967/68 Stats in the League 42 goals in 24 appearances Stats in Europe 6 goals in 9 appearances 1967 ballon dor 5th place 1968 ballon dor 8th place Eusebio 1972/73 Stats in the League 40 goals in 28 appearances Stats in Europe 2 goals in 4 appearances 1972 ballon dor 15th place 1973 ballon dor 7th place
I wonder if back then, it was simply a case of the Europeans journalists not having full access to the exploits of the smaller leagues.
Not long ago Neymar's exploits in half of a Ligue 1 season were enough to propel him above Figo and have him as "one of the best players to have ever played the game"... Yet now the league counts for 0.
Ligue 1 was ranked as a top 5 european league then It wasnt just the ligue 1 exploits either... For reference he was on track for something like this or even better Say what you want about Neymar but Luis figo was never at or even near this level Its just neymars bad luck that in the round of 16 he came up against the Cristiano Ronaldo 2016-2019 of February-April This one Ronaldo ends Barcelona's unbeaten run of 39 league & cup games https://t.co/78OWjzP8KW #ElClasico #FCB #RMA pic.twitter.com/HFyybHUwsj— BBC Sport (@BBCSport) April 2, 2016 https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/985768/LiveStatistics/Spain-LaLiga-2015-2016-Barcelona-Real-Madrid And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...mpions-League-2015-2016-Real-Madrid-Wolfsburg And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2016-2017-Bayern-Munich-Real-Madrid https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ns-League-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Bayern-Munich And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...-League-2016-2017-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...gue-2017-2018-Paris-Saint-Germain-Real-Madrid https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...gue-2017-2018-Real-Madrid-Paris-Saint-Germain And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ampions-League-2017-2018-Juventus-Real-Madrid And this one https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Juventus-Atletico-Madrid https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...ons-League-2018-2019-Atletico-Madrid-Juventus
Messi 2014/15 champions league groupstages 8 goals+2 assists 4.7 shots per game 3.7 key passes per game 6.2 dribbles completed per game 63.2 passes per game 0.2 crosses per game 1.3 long balls per game 1 throughball per game 0.7 tackles per game https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/Europe-Champions-League-2014-2015 Neymar 2017/18 champions league groupstages 6 goals+3 assists 4.3 shots per game 3.3 key passes per game 6.3 dribbles completed per game 56.8 passes per game 1 cross per game 2.7 long balls per game 1.2 throughballs per game 1.7 tackles per game https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/Europe-Champions-League-2017-2018 This is no fluke either Earlier that year he orchestrated the greatest comeback in Barcelona's history And then proceeded to singlehandedly destroy the backline of juventus(15 dribbles completed vs the best defence in European football )