2009-2014 Dani Alves: Only Messi (312) & Ronaldo (308 have created more chances from open-play in La Liga since August 2009 than @DaniAlvesD2 (252)— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) September 2, 2014 I could fill 3 full pages on this thread with match comps and timestamps instead of the usual blaaaaa and empty rhetoric that pervades this thread(and others) This version of Cristiano is absolutely crazy and probably his physical peak. The way he dribbles, how lightning quick his legs move and how fast he changes direction. Not to mention how he scored from literally anywhere he wanted and how his passing range knows no limits either. https://t.co/EJcoLHuyBN— Xav Salazar (@XavsFutbol) September 6, 2021 This is one season(60 matches all comps)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @carlito86 I am tired of having this discussion again and again, old friend. Competitive Margin Games: Games won by less than 3 goals of difference. Blowout Win Games: Games won by at least 3 goals of difference. Zlatan Ibrahimovic 2008/09 + 2009/10 + 2010/11 Serie A and La Liga Competitive Margin Games: 59 goal involvement / 77 games 34 open play goals + 20 assists + 3 penalty assists + 5 penalty goals + 2 free kicks / 77 games 122 goals scored by club / 59 goal involvement by Zlatan Ibrahimovic Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 + 2010/11 + 2011/12 + 2012/13 La Liga Competitive Margin Games: 57 goal involvement / 77 games 35 open play goals + 15 assists + 1 penalty assist + 9 penalty goals + 6 free kick goals / 77 games 134 goals scored by club / 57 goal involvement by Cristiano Ronaldo Messi 2009/10 + 2010/11 + 2011/12 + 2012/13 La Liga Competitive Margin Games: 88 goal involvement / 77 games 52 open play goals + 29 assists + 1 penalty assist + 7 penalty goals + 6 free kick goals / 77 games 156 goals scored by club / 88 goal involvement by Messi That is not a small sample size, and what the data has always consistently demonstrated, is that Cristiano Ronaldo is extremely problematic in league formats, because in league formats, Ronaldo always thinks that Real Madrid can get away with passing the ball exclusively to Ronaldo, without suffering any consequences as a result of the easy-to-predict nature of passing the ball to the same player all the time. Cristiano Ronaldo is nowhere near as problematic in the Champions League format, because in the Champions League format, Ronaldo understands that Real Madrid is not superior enough to pass the ball only to Ronaldo, without the consequence of becoming a predictable and dysfunctional club. The above statistical reality is demonstrably self-evident, but again, the sad cynical reality is that modern statistics have the primary function of obscuring the lines between competitive margin games and blowout win games, because it is in their vested interest to create a false narrative where Messi and Ronaldo are the best football players that ever lived. Zlatan Ibrahimovic literally has superior goal involvement, playing for significantly inferior clubs. Zlatan Ibrahimovic is not an exceptional passer, so would you care to explain the reason as to why Cristiano Ronaldo's amazing passing ability never actually is a real factor that separates him from Zlatan Ibrahimovic?? Lionel Messi blows both Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Cristiano Ronaldo out of the water; because unlike Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi actually is an exceptional pass machine, assist machine, who can assist goals at a far greater rate than alleged pass master Cristiano Ronaldo. Cristiano Ronaldo is only 'superior' in the unique context of the Champions League, where Ronaldo was not even really a factor in the vast majority of the high difficulty games. Messi is only superior in the unique context of league formats, where Messi enjoys the privilege of super club team edge, that allows Messi to play hyper-centric build up play, but without getting destroyed by defensive strategy, which is the unfortunate yet predictable outcome in the vast majority of Messi's games against difficult clubs in the Champions League format. Again: this is not a small sample size... this is simply what happens when you look at competitive margin games, which was the norm back in the 1980s and the 1990s, but which is no longer the norm in the 2010s where Messi and CR7 are breaking records almost exclusively on the basis of what happens in games that are not competitive margin games. Cristiano Ronaldo vs. Marco van Basten. Cristiano Ronaldo 2012/13 La Liga. Real Madrid's Statistical Farming System; the Ronaldo-centric service distribution which generally fails in the majority of competitive margin games. Marco van Basten 1988/89 Serie A. AC Milan's Traditional System; the service distribution does not exclusively revolves around one player, and the results are - adjusting for relativity of eras - a lot better in the majority of competitive margin games. Competitive Margin Games: Ronaldo 11 open play goals / 26 games Real Madrid 47 goals in total / 26 games Real Madrid scoreless games / 4 games Van Basten 9 open play goals / 26 games AC Milan 30 goals in total / 26 games AC Milan scoreless games / 9 games Blowout Win Games: Ronaldo 16 open play goals / 12 games Real Madrid 54 goals in total / 12 games Van Basten 13 open play goals / 12 games AC Milan 55 goals in total / 12 games Observations: Real Madrid scored 17 more goals than AC Milan. Ronaldo only scored 2 more goals than Van Basten. AC Milan was scoreless in 9 games. Real Madrid was scoreless only in 4 games, which is literally less than 50% of AC Milan's total of scoreless games. Ronaldo playing for a far better "team edge" super club, was only good enough to score 2 more goals than Van Basten. Ronaldo played 22 competitive margin games, out of 38 league games, in La Liga 2012/13. Van Basten played 26 competitive margin games, out of 34 league games, in Serie A 1988/89. Disclaimer: I added Ronaldo's last 4 competitive margin games of La Liga 2011/12, to complete the 26 games, which is the exact number of competitive margin games by Van Basten in the Serie A 1988/89. AC Milan won 41 points, out of 26 competitive margin games. Real Madrid won 54 points, out of 26 competitive margin games. When AC Milan and Real Madrid have identical points, which is what happens when blowout win games are compared; AC Milan gets more points, even when Van Basten scores less goals than Ronaldo. Disclaimer: in order to complete the 12 games, I added the 6 blowout margin games that Van Basten played in season 1991/92, his last season in top form; the end result is that, as was easy to predict before actually looking at the data, Van Basten offers roughly equal or better end product to Cristiano Ronaldo, that is, relative to the service percentage actually aimed at Van Basten, and despite the fact that Van Basten's ankle injury is only getting worse with the passing of time. AC Milan scored 55 goals, out of 12 blowout win games. Real Madrid scored 54 goals, out of 12 blowout win games. When team edge is eliminated from the equation, which is literally what happens in blowout win games; team edge is implicitly internally built into the definition itself, in other words, team edge is irrelevant, team edge is not really a factor, because 12 wins equals 36 points. When team edge is eliminated from the equation; it is in fact AC Milan that scores more goals than Real Madrid in blowout win games; of course, Van Basten himself scores less goals than Ronaldo, which invariably demonstrates the dysfunctional Ronaldo-centric service distribution that creates less goals for Real Madrid, but more goals for Ronaldo. In competitive margin games: Ronaldo scores 11 goals, Van Basten scores 9 goals. Real Madrid wins 54 points, versus AC Milan with 41 points. In blowout win games: Ronaldo scores 16 goals, Van Basten scores 13 goals. Real Madrid scores 54 goals, versus AC Milan with 55 goals In blowout win games; Van Basten literally scores one goal per game, but he only enjoys 6 of these blowout margin games per season, even in the best of times. Cristiano Ronaldo, the alleged greatest ever finisher, is supposed to be significantly better than Van Basten but not because he benefits from playing literally double the quantity of blowout win games?? In blowout win games; Van Basten scores one goal per game, but then he only enjoys 6 of these blow out margin games per season, even in the best of times. Cristiano Ronaldo routinely benefits from literally double the quantity of blowout win games, season after season. In blowout win games; Van Basten scored 3 less goals than Ronaldo, but Van Basten scored his 13 goals having received significantly less service distribution percentage than Ronaldo... which is why AC Milan scores more goals when given the chance to play 12 blowout margin games. In blowout win games; Real Madrid exclusively aims 60% or more of their total service at Ronaldo, which is the reason for why Real Madrid (actually a better scoring team) scores less goals than AC Milan. Ronaldo's Real Madrid wins more points and scores more goals, but only and exclusively in the context of competitive margin games, where Ronaldo's Real Madrid super club team edge creates the superiority in points, but where Ronaldo and Van Basten offer the same end product; in the other end of the spectrum, the smaller sample size of blowout win games, Ronaldo and Van Basten offer more or less the same end product, but AC Milan scores more goals despite being the inferior club in terms of team edge. Van Basten's AC Milan wins more league titles, because AC Milan scores more goals when you eliminate team edge from the equation; more goals; more titles; this is the great irony behind Cristiano Ronaldo's propaganda. Juventus bought into the CR7 propaganda; Juventus actually believed that Ronaldo invariably adds goals to your team, but the reality is that Juventus scored more goals before Ronaldo, the reality is that Juventus after Ronaldo scored less goals; competitive margin games versus blowout win games was clear evidence that this was always going happen; Ronaldo was always going to use Juventus as a statistical farm, and this tends to produce worse results for the club. Real Madrid Ronaldo Era was not any better than Atletico Madrid was in La Liga. Ronaldo - while being statistically exceptional - only won La Liga in 2012, only 1 La Liga title after 9 La Liga campaigns. That is ordinary at best. The truth is that Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid is actually better; La Liga title in 2014, in the small window between 2013 and 2016, which is when Atletico Madrid could compete. Ronaldo required 9 La Liga campaigns, between 2010 and 2018, just to win 1 La Liga title in 2012. To make matters worse for Ronaldo, Barcelona was destroyed by Bayern Munich in 2013; Barcelona was again dismantled by Juventus in 2017, by Roma in 2018, by Liverpool in 2020, etc. Barcelona was far more fragile than Ronaldo fans would like you to believe, and that speaks badly about Ronaldo's lack of impact in La Liga. No amount of statistical manipulation is going to hide this reality; Cristiano Ronaldo is extremely overrated, as is Lionel Messi, albeit Messi at least is an honest pure football player, who was born in the wrong era of football in many ways.
Now mighty Carlitos has gone from bashing Platini , Cruyff etc in other threads to bashing Van Basten now , i see. LOL . Just wondering which great player will next face his wrath (backed up by statistical comparision of some good/average modern day player of course )
The problem with your argument is you have no argument Service distribution of a team isnt determined by assists LMAO Assists are only as good as the player who converts them into goals The service distribution/creative output of a team is determined by how many chances they create and how those chances are distributed throughout the team Something that is completely BEYOND the remit of transfermarket Transfermarket is for rudimentary stats Goals Assists Time Stadium That kind of thing For reference Bayern Munich lost 3-2 to PSG last season after 31 shots on goal and 24 key passes That's a mamouth creative output that was absolutely not reflected in the scoreline A bit of an outlier perhaps but it is a most recent example of creativity and assists not being one and the same thing Ronaldo created 4 less chances(not assists but chances) then Lionel Messi in la liga (playing considerably less minutes)between 2009-2014 Dani Alves: Only Messi (312) & Ronaldo (308 have created more chances from open-play in La Liga since August 2009 than @DaniAlvesD2 (252)— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) September 2, 2014 This is from people who earn a living out of analysing up to 200 actions per player every single league match in Europe's top 5 leagues(and beyond) https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations Not people with rusty VHS copies of Carlos Valderrama and delusions of grandeur Its freaking beyond comprehension that someone could ever think(even drunk)the service distribution of a team could be calculated by transfermarket. Literally mind boggling stupidity to be frank The entire premise of your argument regarding Ronaldo being a obsolete presence in the midfield just feeding off the creativity of others is demonstrably false Your estimates of real Madrid directing 60% of their distribution service to ronaldo in blowout wins even more bizarre then Carlos valderramas hairstyle Fact 1 Over a 5 year span(2009-2014) he created more goalscoring chances then any of his teammates Any one in the league matter of fact besides Messi This is over 5 YEARS Not 5 games or 10 games or even 50 games Fact 2 Assisted more then any of his teammates besides Ozil Fact 3 And scored more then any of his teammates Assists=final pass preceding goal Chances created(NOT assist) Key passes were meant to give recognition to creative players The main way that creative players are rated are based on their assists. The more assists a player has, he is deemed to be more creative. However, this may not be the case! A playmaker may be creating a lot of great opportunities for his team to score. However, his teammates just have poor finishing. No goals are scored as a result, and so the player does not get any assists! In this way, key passes help to provide recognition for these players. Even though his teammate does not score the goal, he is still awarded with a key pass! What is a chance created in football? Chances created are a combination of a player’s key passes and assists. As such, this statistic considers all touches that a player has made to create goal-scoring opportunities for his teammates, regardless of whether a goal is scored or not. https://footballhandbook.com/chances-created-vs-key-passes/ And Ronaldos has 4 less of these then Lionel messi from open play between 2009/10 and 2013/14 The margins between wins and losses are extremely thin especially in the early 2010s context of la liga 2009/10 La liga Barcelona 99 points Real Madrid 96 points 2010/11 la liga Barcelona 96 points Real Madrid 92 points The difference between Ronaldo having and not having 3 consecutive la liga titles between 2009/10 and 2011/12 is 7 points I could extend this even further The difference between Cristiano Ronaldo having and not having 6 CONSECUTIVE league titles in England and Spain between 2006/07 and 2011/12 is 7 points 7 points bro In 2010/11 Real Madrid without Ronaldo lost to sporting gijon(10th place) And zaragoza(13th place) Did peak Ronaldo struggle against mid table la liga teams? Is it inconceivable that he could turn those losses into wins(blowout wins probably lol) Van bastens Milan? Why/how are you attributing it to him when Milan won the scudetto in 1987/88 and van basten played the equivalent of 6 matches(out of a possible 30) Or when Milan won the scudetto in 1992/93 and van basten played the equivalent of 14 matches(out of a possible 34) In a million years would you 'allow' Ronaldo to get away with this More like Berlusconis Milan if anything About 3-0 win blowout margins.... You have to wonder out of the hundreds of thousands of Ronaldo detractors online you just happen to be probably the only one who talks about scoring in 3-0 margin games as a negative Im going to give you (roughly) a dozen examples of 3-0 'blowout' wins in la liga between 2009/10 and 2014/15 and the fans can be the one to decide whether or not they should be so wilfully dismissed 2009/10 1.) Real Madrid 4-1 mallorca ronaldos contribution 3 goals 2.) Real Valladolid 1-4 real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+1 assist 2010/11 3.) Real Madrid 4-0 malaga Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+2 assists 4.) Real Madrid 8-1 almeria Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+4 assists 5.) Real Madrid 6-2 seville Ronaldos contribution 4 goals 2011/12 6.) Real Madrid 4-1 Atletico madrid Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+1 assist 7.) Atletico madrid 1-4 Real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 3 goals+1 assist 8.) Levante 1-4 real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 3 goals+1 assist 9.) Osasuna 1-5 Real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+2 assists 10.) Malaga 0-4 real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 3 goals 2012/13 11.) Real Madrid 4-1 seville Ronaldos contribution 3 goals+1 assist 12.) Real Madrid 4-0 seville Ronaldos contribution 3 goals 2013/14 13.) Real Madrid 4-1 Getafe Ronaldos contribution 2 goals+2 assists 14.) Real Madrid 5-1 Real sociedad Ronaldos contribution 3 goals+1 assist 2014/15 15.) Espanyol 1-4 Real Madrid Ronaldos contribution 3 goals+1 assist Stat padding is when your team scores 9+ and you score 5 Or when your team scores 5 and you score 1 Not when you are the primary reason the team on the opposing end is being handed a beating
CR7 is half the player Cruijff or Platini ever was. He’s a great player with an admirable work ethic and mentality , but he lacks that genius ability to be up with these players. He’s basically Kanye West to the David Bowies of football(Cruijff, Platini, Messi, Maradona, Baggio, Zidane etc). Warszawa is pure art and genius album compared to any works of Kanye for example.
* @Gregoriak @JoCryuff98 @carlito86 I should have integrated the data below as part of my argument, as it further corroborates my premise. Competitive Margin Games: Real Madrid La Liga 2012/13 + La Liga 2011/12. Atletico Madrid La Liga 2013/14. AC Milan Serie A 1988/89. Atletico Madrid played 32 competitive margin games, out of 38 league games, in La Liga 2013/14. Ronaldo played 22 competitive margin games, out of 38 league games, in La Liga 2012/13. Van Basten played 26 competitive margin games, out of 34 league games, in Serie A 1988/89. Real Madrid's final 4 competitive margin games in La Liga 2011/12, were added to the 22 competitive margin games in La Liga 2012/13, in order to complete the 26 competitive margin games. Ronaldo 11 non penalty goals / 26 games Real Madrid 47 goals in total / 26 games Real Madrid 54 points in total / 26 games Real Madrid scoreless games / 4 games Van Basten 9 non penalty goals / 26 games AC Milan 30 goals in total / 26 games AC Milan 41 points in total / 26 games AC Milan scoreless games / 9 games Diego Costa 16 non penalty goals / 26 games Atletico Madrid 44 goals in total / 26 games Atletico Madrid 61 points in total / 26 games Atletico Madrid scoreless games / 4 games Diego Costa / 16 non penalty goals Ronaldo / 11 non penalty goals Atletico Madrid / 61 points Real Madrid / 54 points Atletico Madrid / 44 goals Real Madrid / 47 goals Diego Costa scores more non penalty goals than Cristiano Ronaldo, Atletico Madrid scores more points than Real Madrid, but Real Madrid always scores more goals because of Real Madrid's superior team edge, which Ronaldo can only use to score more goals himself; Ronaldo never actually creates better end product for Real Madrid, even when Real Madrid scores more goals than all the other clubs in La Liga. As I've mentioned so many times before; this repeatedly happened, again, and again, and again in La Liga; Real Madrid is the best scoring club in La Liga, but Ronaldo produces inferior value in the majority of competitive margin games, as Real Madrid only won La Liga in 2012, after 9 years with Cristiano Ronaldo. The La Liga title in 2017 does not really count, due to the fact that Ronaldo was, with all due respect, completely average. Ronaldo - while having outstanding statistics - only won La Liga in 2012, after having spent 9 years in La Liga. That is ordinary. That is in fact, inferior to what Atletico Madrid accomplished in the small window between 2013 and 2016; La Liga title in 2014, after only 3 years of good form. Diego Costa 2013/14 was literally better than Cristiano Ronaldo ever was at scoring non penalty goals in competitive margin games, in any league season; Ronaldo in his time as a "low participation" player, in his time as a poacher of goals; Ronaldo never actually scored 16 non penalty goals after 26 competitive margin games. I mean, honestly, is there any reason to believe that Marco van Basten would not improve on what Diego Costa 2013/14 did in La Liga?? Blowout Win Games: Ronaldo 16 non penalty goals / 12 games Real Madrid 54 goals in total / 12 games Van Basten 13 non penalty goals / 12 games AC Milan 55 goals in total / 12 games The whole point of blow out win games, is that team edge tends to become unimportant; when a club wins by 3 goals or more, the team is superior, and the margin of superiority becomes virtually unimportant. When we eliminate team edge out of the equation, we can better see Ronaldo's true value; Real Madrid scores less goals than AC Milan, even when AC Milan is a better scoring team than AC Milan. This is why Real Madrid is going to score a lot more goals than AC Milan, in competitive margin games; it is the result of Real Madrid's team edge being far superior to AC Milan's team edge. Real Madrid was a lot better, compared to the average club in La Liga. In contrast, AC Milan was not a lot better, compared to the average club in the Serie A. A) Diego Costa scores more goals than Cristiano Ronaldo, but Real Madrid scores more goals than Atletico Madrid, but Atletico Madrid scores more points than Real Madrid; in competitive margin games where La Liga is actually won or lost. B) Marco van Basten scores less goals than Cristiano Ronaldo, but AC Milan scores more goals than Real Madrid; in blowout win games where team edge is eliminated from the equation. In conclusion: Juventus Ronaldo Era literally scored less goals than Juventus Higuain Era... This is not some elaborate conspiracy theory against Cristiano Ronaldo; this is self-evident upon watching how Ronaldo scores most of his goals; Ronaldo is not uniquely prolific; Ronaldo is not uniquely pass creative; but Ronaldo still gets uniquely inflated statistics, because Ronaldo's clubs pass the ball only or almost exclusively to Ronaldo.
I won't dispute your stats because I can't be bothered to check but I do wonder why this obsession with competitive margin games. Not every blow out is just a matter of team edge, and not every competitive game is decided by individual edge. The 2011 UCL final was not a blowout by the scoreline (3-1). Messi would get credit for scoring the 2nd goal that gave Barcelona the lead. Scoring in a competitive-margin game. Yet, in reality, that game is as much a case of team edge as any blowout match you will find. The Barcelona team was superior all over the pitch. Contrast this to Arsenal 5-1 Inter Milan at the San Siro. Was it just a simple case of team edge? Would be interesting if it was considering Inter beat Arsenal 3-0 at Highbury. Or was it one of Henry's iconic UCL performances and he deserves the credit for it? I would say though that Madrid not winning a lot of leagues doesn't make them or CR7 league form ordinary, mostly because they were competing against an extraordinary force in Messi's Barcelona. Like most all-time great players, when playing for the best team in the league, CR7 wins league titles just like he did for Man Utd and for Juventus. At Madrid winning in 13-14 in a year where both Madrid and Barcelona picked up less than 90s points, something that they haven't done in years prior. A 'regular' season by either of those teams would've won the league, including Barcelona in 11-12 or Madrid in 10-11, when they didn't win.
Some or most of these matches aren't competitive at all. Barcelona or Real could've won 1-2 to 0 3 to 1, but the match was still totally tilted to one side. If you compare the teams according to their Elo ratings at least you have more chances to pick out more really competitive (or nearly competitive) matches.
Stop showing partial side of the story firstly and think about the game more Ronaldo team goals is 222 according to you. Ronaldo came in or was subbed off in lot of Brazil's games. Brazil scored 27 goals in those games when Ronaldo was not on the field. So his actual goal% is 62/ 195 = 31.8% Which becomes identical And here is the problem with this. Ronaldo and Lewandowski's setup in their team was not alike at all. Poland plays to get the ball to Lewa to score for them. Whereas Ronaldo had other scorers especially someone like Romario at some point to take share that , and was much more involved in general play than lewa. And his stats are actually brought down by his years after 2002 when he was no longer at his best that's the problem . And that is why comparing this way is not always proper. In any case, someone like R9 or Romario and lots of others playing in this period of football in these superteams with billion dollar budget and bullying everyone in league and getting Plenty of luxury to score . , would be scoring 40 goals consistently i have no doubt about that And yes your last line about Lewandowski failing to have a chance to score against big teams with Poland is also true and complies with what i say.
Goals+assists vs top 6 periodic league teams And percentage involvement in teams goals Peak Cristiano Vs Peak Johan cruyff Vs Peak Lionel Messi Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 - 2011/12 La liga 2009/10 Barcelona Real Madrid Valencia Seville Mallorca Getafe Vs Barcelona 0 team goals by real Madrid 0 goals by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957261 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957612 Vs Valencia 5 team goals by real Madrid 1 goal+ 0 assists by Cristiano https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957318 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/957646 Vs seville 4 team goals by real Madrid 1 goal+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/955869 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/957431 Vs mallorca 6 team goals vs mallorca 3 goals+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_rcd-mallorca/index/spielbericht/957349 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-mallorca_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957677 Vs Getafe 6 team goals by real Madrid 2 goals+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_getafe-cf/index/spielbericht/955902 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/getafe-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957464 Overview Real Madrid 2009/10 scored 21 goals vs top 6 la liga teams Ronaldo contributed with 7 goals La liga 2010/11 Barcelona Real Madrid Villarreal Valencia Seville Bilbao Vs Barcelona 1 team goal by real Madrid 1 goal+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sporting-gijon_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036175 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036385 Vs Villarreal 7 team goals by real Madrid 5 goals+1 assist by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_villarreal-cf/index/spielbericht/1036243 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/villarreal-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036433 Vs Valencia 8 team goals scored by real Madrid 2 goals+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1036205 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036395 Vs seville 7 team goals scored by real Madrid 4 goals+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/1036224 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036414 Vs Bilbao 6 team goals by real Madrid 4 goals+0 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_athletic-bilbao/index/spielbericht/1036186 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/athletic-bilbao_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036376 Overview Real Madrid 2010/11 scored 29 team goals vs top 6 la liga teams Cristiano Ronaldo contributed with 16 goals+1 assist 2011/12 Real Madrid Barcelona Valencia Malaga Atletico madrid Levante Vs Barcelona 3 team goals scored by real Madrid 1 goal+0 assists by cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125376 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125566 Vs Valencia 3 team goals scored by real Madrid 1 goal+0 assists Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125347 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1125527 Vs Malaga 5 team goals by real Madrid 3 goals+1 assist by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/malaga-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125309 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_malaga-cf/index/spielbericht/1125499 Vs Atletico madrid 8 team goals by real Madrid 5 goals+2 assists by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_atletico-de-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125357 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-de-madrid_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125537 Vs levante 4 goals by real Madrid 3 goals+1 assist by Cristiano Ronaldo https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/levante-ud_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125261 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_levante-ud/index/spielbericht/1125451 Overview Real Madrid in la liga 2011/12 scored 23 goals vs top 6 teams Crisitiano Ronaldo contributed with 13 goals+4 assists Between la liga 2009/10 and 2011/12 Real Madrid scored 73 goals against top 6 league teams Cristiano Ronaldo contributed with 36 goals+5 assists 56% direct involvement Johan Cruyff 1970/71 to 1972/73 Eredivisie 1970/71 Feijenoord Ajax ADO Den Haag PSV Eindhoven FC Twente Sparta Rotterdam Vs Feijenoord 2 team goals by Ajax 0 goals+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rv-amp-amp-av-feijenoord_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1117095 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_rv-amp-amp-av-feijenoord/index/spielbericht/1117245 Vs ADO Den Haag 3 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/hsv-ado_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116975 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_hsv-ado/index/spielbericht/1117119 Vs PSV 4 team goals by Ajax 2 goals+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_psv-eindhoven/index/spielbericht/1117038 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1117196 Vs FC Twente 3 team goals by Ajax 0 goals+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-twente-65_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1117032 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-twente-65/index/spielbericht/1117173 Vs Sparta Rotterdam 2 team goals by Ajax 0 goals+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_rv-amp-amp-av-sparta/index/spielbericht/1117020 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rv-amp-amp-av-sparta_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1117170 Overview Ajax 1970/71 scored 14 goals against top 6 Eredivisie teams Johan cruyff contributed with 3 goals+2 assists Eredivisie 1971/72 Ajax Feijenoord FC Twente Sparta Rotterdam FC Den Haag FC Utrecht Vs Feijenoord 7 team goals by Ajax 2 goals+2 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_rv-amp-amp-av-feijenoord/index/spielbericht/1116750 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rv-amp-amp-av-feijenoord_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116905 Vs FC Twente 3 team goals by Ajax 0 goals+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-twente-65_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116655 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-twente-65/index/spielbericht/1116804 Vs Sparta Rotterdam 3 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sparta-rotterdam/spielplan/verein/468/saison_id/1971 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_rv-amp-amp-av-sparta/index/spielbericht/1116822 Vs FC Den Haag 3 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-den-haag-ado/index/spielbericht/1116660 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-den-haag-ado_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116815 Vs FC Utrecht 7 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-utrecht_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116760 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-utrecht/index/spielbericht/1116912 Overview Ajax 1971/72 scored 23 goals vs top 6 league teams Cruyff contributed with 5 goals+5 assists Eredivisie 1972/73 Ajax Feijenoord FC Twente Sparta Rotterdam FC Den Haag PSV Eindhoven Vs Feijenoord 2 team goals by Ajax 0 goals+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sc-feyenoord_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116394 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_sc-feyenoord/index/spielbericht/1116545 Vs FC Twente 2 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-twente-65_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116440 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-twente-65/index/spielbericht/1116588 Vs Sparta Rotterdam 5 team goals by ajax 0 goals+0 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rv-amp-amp-av-sparta_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116479 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_rv-amp-amp-av-sparta/index/spielbericht/1116624 Vs FC Den Haag 6 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+1 assist by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-den-haag_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116457 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_fc-den-haag/index/spielbericht/1116606 Vs PSV Eindhoven 6 team goals by Ajax 1 goal+3 assists by Cruyff https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/psv-eindhoven_ajax-amsterdam/index/spielbericht/1116380 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ajax-amsterdam_psv-eindhoven/index/spielbericht/1116525 Overview Ajax 1972/73 scored 21 goals vs top 6 league teams Cruyff directly contributed with 3 goals+4 assists Between 1970/71 and 1972/73 Ajax scored 58 goals vs top 6 teams in the eredivisie Cruyff directly contributed with 11 goals+11 assists 38% direct involvement in his teams goals Lionel Messi La liga 2009/10 Barcelona Real Madrid Valencia Seville Mallorca Getafe Vs real Madrid 3 team goals by Barcelona 1 goal+0 assist by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957261 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957612 Vs Valencia 3 team goals by Barcelona 3 goals by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/955884 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/957446 Vs Seville 7 team goals by Barcelona 3 goals+0 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/957354 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957682 Vs Mallorca 5 team goals by Barcelona 1 goal+0 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_rcd-mallorca/index/spielbericht/955906 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-mallorca_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957497 Vs Getafe 4 team goals by Barcelona 2 goals+1 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/getafe-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/955807 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_getafe-cf/index/spielbericht/957389 Overview Barcelona 2009/10 scored 22 goals vs top 6 la liga teams Lionel messi contributed with 10 goals+1 assist La liga 2010/11 Barcelona Real Madrid Villarreal Valencia Seville Bilbao Vs real Madrid 6 team goals by Barcelona 1 goal+2 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036195 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036385 Vs Villarreal 4 team goals by Barcelona 2 goals+0 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_villarreal-cf/index/spielbericht/1036173 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/villarreal-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036363 Vs Valencia 3 team goals by Barcelona 1 goal+0 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1036132 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036322 Vs seville 6 team goals by Barcelona 2 goals+1 assist by Lionel messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/1036153 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036343 Vs Bilbao 5 team goals by Barcelona 1 goal+0 assists by Lionel Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/athletic-bilbao_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036110 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_athletic-bilbao/index/spielbericht/1036310 Overview Barcelona 2010/11 scored 24 goals against top 6 la liga teams Lionel messi contributed with 7 goals+3 assists La liga 2011/12 Real Madrid Barcelona Valencia Villarreal Atletico madrid Levante Vs Real Madrid 4 team goals by Barcelona 0 goals+1 assist by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125376 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125566 Vs Valencia 7 team goals by Barcelona 4 goals+2 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125263 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1125453 Vs Malaga 8 team goals by Barcelona 6 goals+0 assists by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/malaga-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125063 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_malaga-cf/index/spielbericht/1125414 Vs Atletico madrid 6 team goals by Barcelona 4 goals+0 assists by Lionel Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_atletico-de-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125273 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-de-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125463 Vs Levante 7 team goals by Barcelona 3 goals+1 assist by Messi https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_levante-ud/index/spielbericht/1125365 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/levante-ud_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125555 Overview Barcelona 2011/12 scored 32 goals vs top 6 la liga teams Messi contributed with 17 goals+6 assists Between la liga 2009/10 and 2011/12 Barcelona scored 78 goals against top 6 la liga teams Lionel Messi contributed with 34 goals+10 assists 56% direct involvement
True about that Arsenal vs Inter , and Barca vs united game . Juve vs Real 4-1 in 2017 was more evenly contested than 2011 final which was most onesided final i've ever seen in UCL. Juve were actually very well in the game until CR7 scored the 3rd goal .
Real Madrid losing league titles had to do with lot of factors: - Instability like Benitez period in 15/16 where actually the league was gone by. - Mourinho lost the dressing room in 2012/13 - Carlo Ancelotti failing to rotate the squad properly in 14/15 which led to lot of injuries . Real Madrid went 22 games winning streak in a row . Then suddenly collapse started with lot of players getting injured continuously - Lot of players started to age and dipped in form in first part of 17/18 and forwards having bad form where the league was gone again. UCL is different because it actually starts in march for the teams capable of winning it . So if you have players who pick up their form at that time , you can still win the trophy. That is what happened actually in 15/16 and 17/18 after two bad starts Real Madrid scored lots of goals as Leadleader said , yes, providing statpadding session for Ronaldo in them. But as i said there are games when you visit some tougher task of visiting some away games where you can salvage close wins . That is where having key players missing (14/15 , 15/16) or players losing form or instability (17/18 , 12/13) became a big issue There has been games like for example in 2013/14 where Ronaldo scored against Sevilla after the game against Barcelona , but losing the match ultimately costed the league imo . So there are lot of issues with how things turned out to be honest
Top 6 is a very bad measure lol for LaLiga in that period especially when those teams were miles off the level of Barcelona and Real Madrid Malaga , Mallorca , Getafe lol Even the scorelines suggest it what was the state of the league back then Atletico 2011/12 was nothing close to being a competitor of Real Madrid for anyone that actually watched league games. Atletico only became a serious rival in around later parts of 2013 (yes i know they won the CDR final) . As for comparing with Cruyff on goals + assists is nonsense and silly imo because Cruyff wasn't totally a player of the final third of the pitch like them and was far more involved in playmaking (Playmaking is not just final pass in the final third ) and other things. And he was less destructive as a player in the final third but superior in other facets of the game.
He destroyed them even worse in the post 2013 era A list of players to score hat-tricks against Atletico Madrid since Diego Simeone was appointed their manager in December 2011 (418 games in charge):Cristiano Ronaldo - 4 hat-tricks v Atletico, including 3 in his last 8 appsList ends pic.twitter.com/60uEL0sHAa— Sky Sports Statto (@SkySportsStatto) March 12, 2019
He scored a lot of goals (hattricks) when he did that , but he also failed to make any impact in many games to be honest. In 13/14 , 14/15 , 15/16 he hardly had any impact against Atletico in any league games except maybe that equalizer in 2014 at vicente calderon . He had two hattricks against them in champions league and also created that chicharito goal in 2015 , but blanked out in 2014 and 2016 final He failed to deliver in 6 out of 8 games in 2014/15 season where Real suffered a lot in hands of Atletico
Failed to deliver like this? 2014/15 La liga Real Madrid 1-2 Atletico madrid 1 goal 5 dribbles completed 5 key passes 47 passes 10 crosses https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/8...-LaLiga-2014-2015-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid MOTM CR7 with a 8.40 rating The average score of his teammates was 6.67 This was a 'poacher' with the 3rd most touches on the ball(77) After toni kroos(85) And Sergio Ramos(111) More then the playmakers of real Madrid James Rodriguez (74) Luca modric(68) Probably one of the best ever all round performances on a losing team
Good assist by Lewandowski his weaker left foot against England. One other good control too. While playing a bit deeper and more supporting to the others. Unfortunately no good video of this. There is a good case to be made he is the best player in the world the last couple of years, but not taken away by how he performed against PSG, Barcelona or Italy recently. Robert Lewandowski vs England1 Assist 3/3 Successful Dribbles1 Key Pass1 Big Chance Created 2 Times Fouled5/8 Ground Duels Won2/2 Long Balls With a poor Poland team, not bad performance for a poacher 😏 pic.twitter.com/g4eZiOqPj8— #JM1 🦌 (@WildMonkey__) September 8, 2021 For many the Champions League is now the highest level, the last 25 years (not that the goalscoring actually counts when 'Holland' players do it and score 30 goals, of course - I'm not saying they are all 'great'). To reach 30 goals is already a surprisingly rare thing, and even the biggest countries don't have too many of those (yet).
You are missing the point my friend; the point is that when the game is competitive, if not in reality as you mentioned, then at the very least in terms of the actual goals scored... Cristiano Ronaldo is inferior to Zlatan Ibrahimovic, this is a fact, Ronaldo is only better when you add the huge disproportion of blowout win games that Real Madrid could add to Ronaldo's inflated statistics. Zlatan Ibrahimovic never really benefitted from such a thing; not even in his one season with Barcelona, where he had to directly compete (read: play second fiddle) against Messi. At any rate, your argument is weak and probably dishonest to add; I mean, you are missing the point, and not only are you missing the point, but you are also clearly trying to make me look like a dishonest person, when in reality I am merely pointing out the truth; Ronaldo uniquely benefitted from blowout win games i.e. games won by 3 goals or more. That is precisely why Ronaldo's statistical superiority evaporates when you ignore blowout win games. Competitive Margin Games is not a perfect argument, but it is a lot better, infinitely better in fact, than simply adding all the games, and just blindly assuming that Cristiano Ronaldo is as great as his numbers indicate, even when we know for a fact that Ronaldo uniquely benefited from Real Madrid's team edge for 9 years of his career. Competitive Margin Games: Ronaldo 57 goal involvement / 77 games Real Madrid 134 goals in total / 77 games Zlatan Ibrahimovic 59 goal involvement / 77 games Inter Milan + Barcelona + AC Milan 122 goals in total / 77 games Messi 88 goal involvement / 77 games Barcelona 156 goals in total / 77 games Ronaldo is 2 points below Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and 31 points below Messi... This should never happen if we are to believe that Ronaldo is as great as his statistics indicate; and obviously, this reality will never become clear-cut evident when you simply conveniently obscure the lines between competitive margin games and blowout win games; as usual, for whatever your reasons you consistently protect Cristiano Ronaldo, but then you consistently attack Lionel Messi. My best guess is... Cristiano Ronaldo is overrated and does not threaten Pele's legacy, which is why you have no problem with 'protecting' Cristiano Ronaldo. On the other hand, Messi is actually a threat to Pele's legacy, which is why you consistently attack Messi, all the while you do the opposite, you protect, the lesser Ronaldo. Personally, I don't really have a horse in this race... I mean, a lot of people in this forum have accused me of being a Messi hater, and the reason for this, is that I actually criticize Messi. Of course, I can still see the fact that Messi is obviously superior versus Cristiano Ronaldo. After eliminating Messi's, Ronaldo's, and Zlatan's respective goal involvements: Real Madrid 77 goals in total / 77 games. Barcelona 68 goals in total / 77 games. Inter Milan + Barcelona + AC Milan 63 goals in total / 77 games. Real Madrid Ronaldo Era is the best scoring team in history, but even then, Ronaldo still finishes 2 points below Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and 31 points below Lionel Messi. Overrated is overrated. Truth be told, you are nothing more than a common Cristiano Ronaldo fanboy. * Cristiano Ronaldo La Liga 2009/10 + La Liga 2010/11 + La Liga 2011/12 + La Liga 2012/13. * Lionel Messi La Liga 2009/10 + La Liga 2010/11 + La Liga 2011/12 + La Liga 2012/13. * Zlatan Ibrahimovic Serie A 2008/09 + La Liga 2009/10 + Serie A 2010/11. @JoCryuff98 @Gregoriak @poetgooner @Legolas10 @carlito86
Stats Perform data in fact they lacked, the other you can find really fast on Twitter. non-PK xG of 6.4 and 14 non-PK goals + 1/1 PK goals. Welcome to the hypocrisy..... Your 'method' to find 'competitive' matches that is weak and dishonest... most of these matches aren't competitive at all, period. Many matches of these matches are like 2-0 - 3-1, but Barcelona or Real had nearly 70% or more ball possession at their best, midfield dominance, many more passes per match, way more shots, expected goals and expected threat etc... they aren't competitive at all. Messi had the luxury to just walk the pitch playing in the center of the pitch waiting a quick 1-2 to dribbling past the farmer defender in numerical superiority or receiving the ball in the area. Guardiola's Barcelona is quite arguably the most dominating team of all time having Messi as the focal point of the team (as Ibrahimovic said more than once time I think quote: at Barcelona they would make everything turned to Messi shine, at Barcelona was all about Messi)... most of these matches aren't as competitive imo. Your 'method' is bad, at least If you at least restrict the matches to 1 goal difference that would make it at least less worse, even tho some minnor team could still score his goal in the extra time. Elo rating method, anyway, is much superior than analysing matches by their final results only About being Pelé fan etc, I think Cristiano threat Pelé's all-time position just as much as Messi, just like Maradona now is placed specially by the English media ahead of Pelé, even if in his Diego's best days and even around ~2000 it was far from the correct by most if not all experts. Videos, videos, recency bias, fanboys like you pushing agendas out of pure ignorance (specially ignorance about Pelé and other players of the past), eurocentrism, superteams and medias. That's the only reason, for me, why Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo are going to beat Pelé in the near future in the all-time ranking (they are way more common and normal for their generation than Pelé was in his time, Pelé was the biggest out of curve player in all history). Because in terms of actual performance against opponents of close or similar level I think they're both a long way off, and that includes Messi and his lack of good performance in finals or semifinals of WC/Copa América, Messi and his lack of decision, end product and adaptation in complicated games etc. But of course in the statistical era we are living in always appear some guys like you pushing agenda of the like "two goal difference matches results were really competitives matches in the 10s spanish context" when in the reality they weren't.... most of them were totally tilted and controlated matches. When guys like you think only with goals and assists you can determinate performances etc (even when Ibra said Messi was the system in Barcelona's team). You know that we are living now in a stats-obssessed era, probably Messi is jerking off now that he surpassed Pelé's 77 goals for Brazil or for his goals and assists tally or for his whoscored/sofascore ratings since 2009. Players know all the stats nowadays, and they know that they are judged for that, and these numbers is more important than ever. Now, pay attention, in Pelé's time, assists were not even counted, the goals were much more important to their legacy, and yet Pelé had about 350 assists, yet there was a time, seasons in fact, where Pepe was the team's official PK taker, FK taker of his team. There was a time where Pelé still came back to defend in most competitive games, still lowered his performances and his share of goal contribution and activity against weaker opponents, looking to save energy for the toughest game..... and yet Pelé won everything that was important to his club and National Team, being usually the MVP in Finals, and when he lost like in the Copa America - when it was way less important than it is now, even less important than friendly matches - he was still the MVP of the tournament. My biggest fun wiil be when the players you guys hate so much like Cristiano Ronaldo will be placed above or on the same level as you over pampered Messi by the very the same statistical analysis and speeches (full of bias, doubtful scopes, falses narratives) as you guys conveniently do, but actually Cristiano do have better numbers than Messi in the KO rounds of UCL for example. Messi is overrated. But what I could expect from a guy who thinks Juan Riquelme and Carlos Valderrama was better than Cristiano Ronaldo?
One of best ever all round performances on a losing team Lol what? You are not serious If it was termed as good it'd least sound reasonable One of best ever lmao Anyways i don't trust these ratings He scored a penalty goal and had lot of touches - two sources of increasing ratings on this app There's game like Messi against netherlands 2014 semifinal where he walked on the pitch was absolutely mediocre and had a 9.0 out of 10 rating lol I will rewatch the performance anways then see how it was
Not as ridiculous as you saying he failed to deliver in 6 out of 8 You have egg in your face Live with it I double down on my statement This is a Ronaldo that had 25 goals+8 assists in 14 matches with one of the highest ratings in la liga history(9.13) between August-december 2014 This same Ronaldo was played out as a winger against the 3rd best team in the league(atletico Madrid in September 2014) and was a one man army looking as good as any winger in the world at that time Real Madrid goals vs atletico =1 Ronaldo goals vs atletico =1 Real Madrid successful dribbles vs atletico =10 Ronaldo successful dribbles vs atletico =5 Real Madrid crosses vs Atletico=36 Top 5 Ronaldo=10 crosses James Rodríguez=7 crosses Fábio Coentrão=7 crosses Gareth bale=4 crosses Luca modric=3 crosses Key passes vs atletico Madrid Top 3 Cristiano Ronaldo=5 James Rodriguez=4 Toni kroos=3 Touches vs atletico Madrid Sergio Ramos=111 Toni kroos=85 Cristiano Ronaldo=77 James Rodriguez=74 Luca modric=68 https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/8...-LaLiga-2014-2015-Real-Madrid-Atletico-Madrid The best striker of all time(c.Ronaldo 2014) (This over an entire year not a 7 game tournament) was played as a winger vs atletico Madrid 14/15 and looked like freaking peak Luis figo(i dont think figo ever had a performance like that against such defensively compact team to be honest) Just more cheap/lazy propaganda that got debunked by 3 different posters whos footballing view are probably nowhere near aligned Its not even close peak zlatan to Cristiano Ronaldo Not even freaking comparable(not in tap ins and not in technical difficult shots) "We(something YOU cannot do)can filter all of Zlatan’s most difficult chances over his last 10 seasons of domestic football by selecting those that had an Expected Goals (xG) value of less than 0.05, or 5%. By doing this, we can isolate his shots that, on average, had a lower than 5% chance of going in. Ibrahimovic has registered 380 shots of this difficulty. His ability to score spectacular goals from difficult chances is evident. Ibra scored 22 goals from these situations, nearly nine more than Opta’s Expected Goals model would have expected him to. To put this into perspective, over the same period in the top five European leagues, only two players – Ronaldo (38) and Messi (34) – scored more goals from chances of this difficulty. These figures are even more remarkable given that the next highest ranked player for goals from this chance difficulty only scored seven" https://www.statsperform.com/resource/stats-performs-legends-series-part-two-zlatan-ibrahimovic/ Zlatan is allegedly the striker with the most technically difficult goals ever(same level as van basten probably)and he isnt even remotely comparable to either peak Cristiano/Messi Blowout wins? Real Madrid consistently blew teams away because of Ronaldo not team edge compadre Real Madrid averaged 2.66 goals per game during the Cristiano era; last season, it was just 1.69. https://www.football-espana.net/202...stiano-ronaldo-departed-the-santiago-bernabeu Its just for half that time (2009/10 to 2014/15)they were competing against a demonstrably more balanced team with less egos and more continuity Goals conceded Barcelona 09-10 to 14/15 conceded 168 goals in la liga 0.73 gls conceded per game Real Madrid conceded 218 goals in la liga 0.96 gls conceded per game Games are won by goalscorers while championships are won by defences(especially 2 horse race championships) Ronaldo scored more match winning goals then Messi during the aforementioned period,created as many chances and scored more technically difficult goals(ones with a xG of 5%) but ultimately was conquered by the better team(and probably slightly better overall team player in Messi taking the full package into consideration ie mainly dribbling)
What egg do i have on my face? I never conceded to him having an effect as you claimed . I already said i will rewatch the match as it was like 7 years ago, so i have to recheck and then i can tell whether i was wrong or right Scoring a penalty goal and having some so-called keypasses ( often can be sidepass to a teammate shooting from outside the box ) lol can very well ensure him having a higher rating (that's how these ratings apps work and in many cases that's why they fail to give a clearcut idea of game) Messi against Netherlands 2014 Semifinal is noway a performance of over 7-7.25 but got a 9.0 lol . Maybe its for you , my standards are way higher than that . " This ronaldo that scored 25 goals + 8 assists etc. " . Dude i watched all those games almost lol . I also remember him failing to score a penalty against Ludogorets for example, four goals against Bilbao etc. Taking nothing away from him , him getting 9.13 on Whoscored should be pretty usual if you figure out that site works. Any 3 goal contribution in 99% cases is a perfect 10. He was scoring braces and hattricks almost every game in those few matchdays
Anyways it doesn't change what i said. CR7 has scored goals against Atletico Madrid (since 2013/14 season where they became a stronger team) , but his goals usually have also come in Bundles - scoring hattricks And he was nowhere to be found or dropped a mediocre performance in many games against them as well especially that 2014/15 season Things accumulated statistics won't tell you and problem with that. Messi fanboys will claim to you that Messi destroys Real Madrid everytime he faces them , Madrid's Nightmare blah blah.... They won't tell you : Varane having more goals than him in Classicos in Copa Del Rey Four finals lost against Real Madrid (won one) No goal contribution in his last 7 classicos Him failing to make an impact in 75-80% of his classicos since 2014 Anyways that is off-topic and i dont want to start another debate
Maradona fans will tell you he is the greatest dribbler of all time They will not tell you he was statistically outdribbled by Careca in the 1989 UEFA cup and scored less then 3 solo goals in Serie A(84-91) This with no memorable dribbling runs in several games vs Milan 1 memorable dribbling run in several games vs Juventus They will not tell you he was outdribbled by Paul gascoigne in WC 1990 Van basten fans will tell you he is the greatest finisher of all time even though 26% of his Serie A goals were penalties Scored at best 3 solo goals in Serie A and 95% of his open play finishes for Milan were comparable to higuain/cavani finishes 10~ of his open play goals for milan were above ordinary Vast majority are standard/routine finishes that any 20 goal a season CF could score today