Has anybody blamed altitude?

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: General' started by Danilo-11, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. Danilo-11

    Danilo-11 Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Anybody remember that FIFA banned soccer games above 8200 ft in 2007?
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=434361&cc=5901


    There's also this article saying that altitude was going to affect the speed of the ball
    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-...d-south-africa-according-study?cc=5901&ver=us

    A study by adidas shows altitude will have an impact of up to 5 percent on a ball's speed. That means a 20-yard free kick during the final at Soccer City in high-altitude Johannesburg will reach the goal line 5 percent faster than it would at Moses Mabhida stadium in Durban, which is at sea level, according to the study seen by The Associated Press.
     
  2. aerez

    aerez Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I think that ban was placed before the World Cup was offered to South Africa. I think that's a rule for the future competitions.

    Speaking about altitude, All games I've read from Argentina's point of view were in altitude and reading one post from these forums I think it's a benefit to come back down to sea level.

    Is that true?
     
  3. Sykotyk

    Sykotyk Member

    Jun 9, 2003
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, there's benefit in conditioning coming down from high to low elevations. The one is the thinner air requires your lungs to adjust to breathing more often to get the same amount of oxygen. Once you go back to sea level, your lung capacity is still at high elevation levels. Therefore, you breath easier because you're getting more oxygen. Less likely to get winded. Muscles get oxygen faster then, less cramps/pain.
     
  4. vhatever

    vhatever Red Card

    Jun 16, 2010
    USA
    It's not really your lungs that adjust but the actual chemical composition of your blood. Just an FYI, I guess.

    There might be an issue with the ball carrying more at higher elevations. Yes, the ball will fly 5% faster, but it will also be essentially a lot "lighter" in the air, and the ball will carry "higher" when the ball is lobbed in the air, probably much moreso than 5%. I suspect this is why a lot of teams are not doing traditional corner kicks, instead kicking the ball out to another player.
     
  5. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Fifa should ban games in absurds altitudes like happens in South America. Play in a altitude over 2.500m is a crime, and there is no fair play on these conditions. Force a team to play in altitudes of 4.200m like in Potosí is a completely absurd, but South Africa dont have high altitudes like those.
     
  6. Cool Rob

    Cool Rob Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Chicago USA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some friends and I were discussing South American dominance over the weekend :))). Surely someone has realized that these teams have great experience in playing under differnent altitude conditions- it's part of the WCQ process and MUST be factored into planning.
     
  7. K:thecore

    K:thecore Member+

    May 20, 2002
    Honolulu
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Since everyone is playing on the same playing field with the same altitude, why would you want to blame anything on it now?

    Seems a bit anti-football dont you think?

    I kind of wish people would quit lookin for scapegoats.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I blame the altitude, the jabulani and the vuvuzelas.
     
  9. K:thecore

    K:thecore Member+

    May 20, 2002
    Honolulu
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Its an even playing field
     
  10. Danilo-11

    Danilo-11 Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Altitude is an advantage, same as cold and hot weather is an advantage.

    San Lorenzo (Argentina) beat Real Potosi in Copa Libertadores in their stadium 2-3 at almost 14,000ft above sea level.
    San Lorenzo scored all 3 goals in the last 20 minutes of the game.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKs8URVfkbE"]YouTube- Noches de Copa: Real Potosi 2 - San Lorenzo 3[/ame]
     
  11. TheLegendUsa

    TheLegendUsa New Member

    May 31, 2010
    Virginia Beach
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know about the altitude thing but maybe the fact that their in the Southern Hemisphere. You got 5 teams from South America that play in the Southern Hemisphere that qualifed for the Knockout Stage.
     
  12. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The Mexicans had trouble with the ball on the first game. They are probably more used to the alititude than other teams. They should not have difficulties with the ball if the ball is normal. Besides, the two Mexician World Cup Finals were known as the best ever. I do not know the average alititude of the stadiums in Mexico vs South Africa. Alititube did not affect the overall perofrmance of those two WC Finals.

    I think it is a mixture of the ball and alitube. Adidas did not test it enough.
     
  13. vhatever

    vhatever Red Card

    Jun 16, 2010
    USA
    The thing with SA is that the stadiiums all range from "fairly high elevations" to sea level. So if you played your first game or two up high, then you have to play at sea level or the other way around, it might throw off your overall accuracy significantly.

    I suppose it's possible that the CONEMBOL teams are more used to having to change altitudes because south america is far more varied in altitutde than most other places.

    But my guess is, the CONEMBOL result is just south america have a good crop of teams this WC that are peaking at the right time, more than usual, and UEFA having a few top teams self-destruct, like italy/france.
     
  14. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Then again ... Bolivia 6 x 1 Argentina ...
     
  15. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There are 2 issues with altitude:

    1 - Players not used to it get gassed easily. This is typically noticed if you have little time to acclimate yourself with the altitude. Meaning you get to the location only 2-3 days before the game. After a few days your body is supposed to get used to it and the effect is not as bad. Teams in SA qualifiers and Libertadores suffer this every year when they play in Bolivia and Ecuador. They never have enough time to get used to the altitude so they typically travel to the location on the same day of the match.

    2 - Ball travels faster as has been mentioned earlier.

    The altitude in SA is not nearly as bad as Ecuador nor Bolivia.
     
  16. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Johannesburg (altitude)- 5,751 ft

    Mexico City (altitude)- 7,349 ft

    Like you said, two of the best finals and most historic were held in higher altitude.
     
  17. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    La Paz, Bolivia - 13,313 feet.

    For people to complain about altitude when referring to South Africa or even Mexico is laughable. Go play a match in La Paz and then talk.
     
  18. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    This is the right way to handle the altitude:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=1777



     
  19. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    How would being from the southern hemisphere help?
     
  20. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    And it didn't exactly do Australia or South Africa any good being from the Southern Hemisphere.
     
  21. masterklh

    masterklh New Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    Massachusetts
    Not really... Argentina got smoked by Bolivia 6-1 in La Paz was that laughable? Sure the higher you go the harder it gets but its still a valid argument. I watch a lot of MLS and when MLS teams go to Mexico city to play the games are good until about the 70th minute then the Mexican teams somehow find a way to rack up 6 goals in the last 20 minutes of the game... I do buy the high altitude theory but I think the only real team in this tournament that plays at elevation is Chile and Mexico and they are out so Its pointless now. The rest of the teams pretty much are on an even playing field.
     
  22. Danilo-11

    Danilo-11 Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    Funny that you use that Bolivia 6-1 Argentina example from the 2010 WCQ to "prove" that altitude affects players.

    Here's all the scores from the same 2010 WCQ of the games played in La Paz, Bolivia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(CONMEBOL)

    Bolivia 6-1 Argentina
    Bolivia 2-1 Brazil
    Bolivia 0-2 Chile - Lost
    Bolivia 0-0 Colombia - Tied
    Bolivia 1-3 Ecuador - Lost
    Bolivia 4-2 Paraguay
    Bolivia 3-0 Peru
    Bolivia 2-2 Uruguay - Tied
    Bolivia 0-1 Venezuela - Lost

    In the 2010 WCQ, Bolivia had a 4-2-3 (W-T-L) , 18GF, 12GA record playing in La Paz.
     
  23. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The point I was making is that Bolivia is significantly higher than South Africa or Mexico. For anybody to complain about the altitude in South Africa or Mexico is laughable.

    And where do you get your information? Chile doesn't play at altitude.

    As far as the Argentina-Bolivia match, it sounds like you saw the score and brought it up but probably don't know the circumstances. There were a number of special circumstances that contributed to that shocking result, but it's not the subject of this thread. PM me if you really want to know.
     
  24. masterklh

    masterklh New Member

    Oct 21, 2003
    Massachusetts
    Outside of La Paz they were 0-1-8... That does sound like a huge home field advantage. I went through the score lines from La Paz, I was actually expecting to see majority of the goals come at the end of the game but most of them in reality were in the first half. I havent ever seen a game in La Paz due to no real availibility of CONMEBOL games here.

    However Am I semi right in assuming the typical strategy for any team going to La Paz is just bunker and try to come out with a point?

    The point im trying to make is that it really doesnt matter if its 7k feet or 13k feet... Yes La Paz is a rediculous height... but if your not acclimated to the Altitude its a serious disadvantage or huge home field advantage judging by Bolivia's WCQ home and away record.

    4-2-3 at home, 0-1-8 on the road... You do have to take into consideration the type of home field advantage that gives a team especially in a competition like the world cup. If South Africa were a better side it could have proved to be a very serious advantage.

    I dont really have any info on Chile.. I just know the Andies take up a good portion of the country so I assumed out of all the SA countries chile would be a possible candidate to play at elevation.
     
  25. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I see. And I suppose you also believe that it really doesn't matter if it's 90 degrees or 110 degrees. Heat is still heat and will still affect you.


    If I tell you that Chile has the largest coastline in South America, will you then assume that they play at sea level?

    Keep posting, it's amusing.
     

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