Happy birthday to the greatest number 10 of all time

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by babaorum, Jun 21, 2025.

  1. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And who do you put ahead of him?
     
  2. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
     
  3. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He's not behind Zico, Eusébio, Zidane and Platini imo
     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ....
    yes ...


    that Game against West Germany in 1982 ..!


    Definitely

    one of the best games of all time

    without a doubt!

    The referee's theft ended up eliminating France...

    Honestly,

    When I first saw this match,

    Honestly,

    I was very emotional and even cried a little.

    I saw it on TV Cultura, Channel 2 in Brazil .


    ...
    It would have been better indeed

    France and Italy in the final in that World Cup 1982 .

    Schumacher almost killed Battiston

    Patrick Battiston
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    .....
    ..

    The idea of using Franz Beckenbauer as a false center-back
    for the German national team and Bayern Munich


    was brilliant on my view... especially since

    Beckenbauer

    when playing as a segundo Volante among Overath or Gunter Netzer ..sometimes

    was inevitable

    to have a lot of physical contact
    and duels on the ground. always ..



    The idea was to have Beckenbauer float freely across the field

    in a camouflaged manner.

    avoiding physical contact in midfield


    being a Play-maker
    camouflaged, hidden and withdrawn

    he reversed the roles with

    Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck
    and
    Paul Breitner

    ...
    ..

    Like Gullit

    Beckenbauer FRanz

    he switched positions and roles all the time...

    it was very very difficult

    for opponents
    to really neutralize him

    completely throughout entire matches.


    Even putting Man-Marking
    all the time on Beckenbauer
    wouldn't work completely.

    Beckenbauer
    is constantly moving
    and confuses to make it happen the tackle on him always .
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  6. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    Why Zico has been the best player of 70s and 80s (and why circus stars like Ronaldinho and Neymar are nowhere near being comparable to him):

    Nearly perfect from first to last minute.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek and Prasenjit repped this.
  7. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Circus players who are providing more on ball value in the World Cup and Neymar especially more receiving - off ball value, as well. Coming from Zico's fan who posted a comps vs Paraguay... from a player who never played a semifinal for his NT in life - Copa América or World Cup.

    [​IMG]

    If it is about post comps vs Paraguay, thats Neymar vs Paraguay away in 2020-2021 when he was still around the best player in the world (third rated in Plus Minus/Elo at the time coming from first in 2018-2020) and that Brazil was mediocre asf (still is, btw).



    Neymar is a bigger Brazil's NT legend than Zico.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  8. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Also, Zico expressively assumed his inferiority to Cruyff and Maradona in a interview (also to Messi), so that rules out him being the best 70s or 80s player already, now, was he really better than Beckenbauer, Muller, Platini, Gullit or Van Basten? or even the ones of Rivellino, Falcao or Rummenigge? Thats quite of a discussion about it;
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ....

    To put ..now also ...

    DataBase ...from Fifa Club World Cup .... 2006 .. Finals ..... 1981 ....


    Ronaldinho Gaucho

    9 Attempts / 3 dribbles completed ....

    1 against

    Fernandão .... in the first half of the Match .... Las bicicletas fintas o tipo ..


    2 against Ceara in the second half of the match...



    dribbles in speed .. agility .. and shorter acceleration ..






    vs




    Zico .....



    9/9 dribbles completed ....... 100 % accuracy ......



    against LiverPool ... 1981 ,,..

    Sombreros ..
    turns
    nutmegs
    dribbles in Speed ...


    was a perfect performance on my view ..


    2 Assists (Opta )
    1 Pre-Assist (Non-Opta ) .... free-kick taking ... !



    ... dribbles always in vertical direction ... "!
     
  10. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ...

    now ...

    with Neymar Jr ...

    is neck To neck yes ,.on my view ..


    Neymar Jr.'s problem...
    is his emotional and mental side.

    doesn't have a very good head

    On the field

    Ney Jr... was different

    yes...

    better

    than

    Ronaldinho Gaucho and Jay Jay Okocha...

    But because of his unbalanced mind
    he's behind]
    Zico, Nazario, Romário, Mané Garrincha, and Rivaldo
     
  11. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #86 Frank73, Oct 17, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2025

    And when the circus' over
    turn out the lights...



    Athletes, not artists. When speed and agility vanish, they collapse to mediocrity (see Eden Hazard too).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  12. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Again this imbecility.

    See also Maradona [who faded with 30 years old] who was overplayed as a youngster and had back pain, Platini who retired when he lost a step with 31 years old, Best or Ronaldinho who had extra football life an so on. But according to our friends they are athletes and not "artists" such as Zico.

    You are a idiot, no one is immune to physical decline in such sport as football.

    You can get the right lifestyle to prevent injuries, not be overplayed as a young and be luck with your genetics to maximize longevity. But thats about it.

    Zico top consistent level from 1974 to 1983 (prime from 1979-1983), Neymar top level from 2010 to 2022 (prime from 2017-feb 2020 or mid 2021). First half of 22/23 season, Neymar was probably just as good as Zico with Udinese his first season and Ney was clearly a level below his prime. After 2023, Neymar had millions of muscle injuries and an ACL on top of it. He clearly lacked match fitness and rythm with Santos.
     
  13. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    One thing to be realized here is that even if I think comparing Neymar with Ronaldinho is OK, because both were quality extraordinary players and their playstyle is similar, even their position, both were also showboaters, many times they fail to give the credit that Neymar was a much more competitive person than Ronaldinho, on the pitch and off the pitch.

    Neymar in his carrer asked for the ball in a much higher rate than R10 and was always ready to put the work in, maybe even too much (Neymar is one of the most ball hog players ever), Ronaldinho in some matches, even in his prime, was much more a passenger and careless if compared. Neymar was active, Ronaldinho was passive. Neymar also cared much more about make his team win the match and was a very hardwork player in essence, Ronaldinho was often lazy and careless about the result.

    Neymar was at the end of the day stopped by his injuries (his level... his narrative by his carrer choices imho), Ronaldinho instead was stopped by his mind... and on the pitch despite Ronaldinho's elite level of talent, Neymar had much more output, still more level in his prime and his carrer was clearly superior to me, despite not winning a Ballon d'Or (for those who cares about it) or even a World Cup (Neymar is also a bigger Brazil's legend than Ronaldinho).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  14. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    I agree with you yes,


    Yes

    Just watch the decisive Games...of both.

    In their entire careers.


    Ney Jr ...
    there were better games than Ronaldinho at averages ..to both ...



    But ...


    Ronaldinho Gaucho

    is the most publicized media player and protected player in history of the Football

    along with Beckham David ...



    ..

    Ronaldinho...

    People protect him...

    With this narrative...

    If... If... He had been focused,

    he would have done more.



    That's not true...

    Ronaldinho...

    never had the level...
    to score that many goals per season.....



    He scored the number of goals that a player with his limited characteristics could.

    I honestly don't see Ronaldinho

    being able to

    increase his goal tally numbers

    and his decision-making power.


    ...

    ..

    I mean ...

    he was a player of this level at His Peak ..really

    La Liga
    32 Matches
    21 Goals


    ...

    Uefa Champions League

    12 Matches
    7 Goals
    4 Assists



    Copa del Rey de la Spain

    6 Matches
    3 Goals

    Spanish Super_cups
    2 Matches
    1 Goal
    1 Assist
    or

    2 Matches
    2 Assists


    European Super-Cup Final
    1 Match
    0 Goals
    0 Assists



    Fifa Club World Cup Final ..2006

    1 Match ..
    0 Goals
    0 Assists



    ......
    ..

    Honestly, I don't see Ronaldinho Gaucho being able to increase his goal tally and his records.



    ....
    ..
    He never had the soul of a real top player and top scorer...Elite and soul
    he was
    an improved Jay Jay Okocha

    and with much more media pay attention on him always
    and Super Global Marketing...on him

    from Barcelona, Nike...etc.etc..etc.JOga Bonito ...


     
  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ..

    Something very similar to the false narratives to protect Beckham treating him like a victim of the system because of his years with the English national team side ... 60 years without titles already... They say this to protect him... They are helpless, what happens to Beckham, Paul Scholes... Lampard, Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Terry and Steven Gerrard... etc., etc.etc..



    The reality is

    a bunch of fearful, vapid players

    and no decision-making power players .
     
  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ..
    Look, Spanish football
    and La Liga

    is a bit more easier to play than Serie A Calcio from Italy

    in the 80s and 90s.


    Baltazar the God's Striker ...did it .... 35 Matches ,... 36 Goals ...


    Hugo Sanchez ...... did it ..... 35 Matches ........... 38 Goals ...


    Nazario ............ did it ............ 37 Matches ........ 34 Goals ...


    ...... Rivaldo ........did it ............. 24 goals .......... 22 Goals .....

    Romário ..............did it .......... 33 Matches ....... 30 Goals ......


    Bebeto .............did it ............... 32 Matches ......... 29 Goals ....
    ......


    en La Liga ............ on these years .......
     
  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @babaorum @Isaías Silva Serafim @PDG1978 @ffff15 @Wiliam Felipe Gracek @Betrayed@Krondor


    Michel Platini 1983/84 – The Greatest Season of All Time

     
  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    carlito86 repped this.
  19. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #94 Frank73, Oct 18, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2025
    Let's overlook you caling me an idiot -of course your arguments and rhetoric are too poor and ineffective to piss me off, and letting the whole thing come to nothing is a lesson I am willing to give a random impolite big baby since it costs me nothing- but I can not let you walk away with
    1) Maradona and Platini not being artists: I never said this. I maintained Neymar and Hazard were more physique than sheer talent.
    2) You clearly know almost nothing about Zico at Udinese and more generally serie A of the 80s. And no one minimally knowledgeable about that period would even think of comparing the condition of a 2023 PSG player to that of a serie A top one back then.
    3) Same for longevity. To hear someone comparing a 33 yo player born in the 50s to a 33 yo still-in-activity one just makes me laugh. Ages have past in the science of training, nutrition, medicine, rehab, surgery.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    ...
    ..
    yes...

    I agree with you dear Mate !

    It's not the first time that Tropeiro has gone a little overboard and ended up doing this


    Tropeiro

    To have your own opinion

    There's no need to curse or attack anyone...

    A sign of a lack of elegance and education as an adult person at all .
     
  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  22. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    #97 Tropeiro, Oct 19, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2025
    I don't need to consider what you said or not, that holds no value, I just need you to realize to the fact that no one player is immune to physical decline (injury-related, age-related, behaviour-related etc), doesn't matter if you consider them kings, artists, warriors, clowns or - ultimately - football players and you just confirmed my point with your answer, as Best, Maradona, Platini and Ronaldinho are quite a example of physical decline in younger than or similar age of 2025 Neymar, for a reason or another, doesn't matter how you consider them to be.

    Btw, you are a troll and I don't have obligation to be polite with a troll - you are not decent whatsoever - and people aren't as dumb as you act. You are a fake.
     
  23. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    Sometimes I look at your name here and wonder, how did Wiliam Felipe Gracek become Wiliam Felipe Gracek?
     
  24. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #99 Frank73, Oct 20, 2025
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2025
    Man you need me to realize, but unfortunately for you I don't need considering you at all. Indeed it was you to answer my message. I would never waste a single minute on your laughable list or whatever fart a ridicule windbag like you you can produce. You are not even close to make a troll. You are just a completely negligible big baby. Adieu.
     
  25. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Michel Platini assists in France that transfermarket missed


    I’ll be updating this whenever I get the chance.
    Today, I’m starting by posting 9 assists



    Transfermarket credits Michel Platini with 0 assists in this match when he actually made 2 assists
    Olympique Marseille - AS Saint-Étienne, 10/08/1979 - Ligue 1 - Match sheet | Transfermarkt




    Assist one at minute 4:03
    Assist two at minute 13:11



    ————————————

    Transfermarket credits Michel Platini with 0 assists in this match when he actually made one assist
    OGC Nice - AS Saint-Étienne, 24/11/1979 - Ligue 1 - Match sheet | Transfermarkt



    Assist 1 at minute 10:05



    ————————————


    Transfermarket credits Michel Platini with 0 assists in this match when he actually made 2 assists
    AS Saint-Étienne - AS Monaco, 14/03/1981 - Ligue 1 - Match sheet | Transfermarkt



    Assist 1 at minute 5:38
    Assist 2 at minute 7:09



    —————————————-

    Transfermarket credits Michel Platini with 0 assists in this match when he actually made 3 assists
    AS Saint-Étienne - FC Girondins Bordeaux, 27/03/1982 - Ligue 1 - Match sheet | Transfermarkt




    Assist 1 at 0:53
    Assist 2 at minute 1:17
    Assist 3 at minute 7:00




    ———————————————

    Transfermarket credits him with one assist(to Larios) in this match when he actually made 2 assists
    AS Saint-Étienne - FC Metz, 07/05/1982 - Ligue 1 - Match sheet | Transfermarkt



    Assist one to Larios at 0:35
    Assist 2 to Battiston at minute 2:32
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.

Share This Page