Ok, I usually dont like starting stupid little threads, so mods you can close this thread after someone answers my question: I got in a debate last night about the hand of JOB. Could someone refresh my memory on what game it was in and what the circumstances of the play were? I'd really appreciate it.
that must have been one of the worst debates ever.......Neither of you remembered a thing about it and still felt the need to 'debate'????
The game was the round of 16 game against Mexico. It was on a Mexican corner kick. Somehow JOB's fist got on the end of a corner kick to clear it out to the edge of the penalty area. The debate was whether it should have been a handball.
thanks..... And no, both of us remembered what happened. We couldnt decide on what game it was in. And DAMN, I lost $20!
From JOB's chat on Friday 3/28... Bryan, Snowflake, AZ: The chances of the mod letting you answer this is little, but I got to know. Your handball against Mexico: spur of the moment decision or last resort plan you had in the back of your mind? John O'Brien: The moderator tried to stop me but, I'm gonna do it anyway. I tried to grab the guy and pull him down ... get my hand in the way of his head from the ball ... I was shocked when it hit my hand. I didn't mean for that. http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=3300 I love that the mod tried to stop him but he answered anyway.
why would the moderator try to stop him from answering to something that allready happend and can't be changed, i just don't see the point of it
So now we know. The handball was accidental. He should have been shown a card for trying to pull the guy down, not for a handball. I've always wondered how he could have intentionally handled the ball when he's looking off in a direction in which he couldn't possibly see the ball coming. Yes the ball hit his hand. But intentional handling? Not a chance.
Not that it matters but having his arm raised even if unintentional made it a PK, as opposed to game against Germany where the player had his arm close to his body.
In 98, Italy got a PK from Chile off a questionable handball. The defender wasn't going for the ball but was called anyways. JOB was lucky not to get called for the handball.
nope, it would have had to been an overtly intentional handball. SO, if he caught the ball or parried it away, he should have recieved a red card, but since it was accidental, just a pk. Now, i don't know how the ref missed it b/c he was looking right at it, but the way he punched it a ref easily could have mistakenly inferred his intent from it. I don't see why he was trying to manhandle Blanco in the first place, I didn't think that bitch had much of a chance on goal.
Baggio kicked the ball into the guys hand as it was hanging down on purpose. It was a cheap, yet effective way to earn a very late 2-2 draw. The US is not new to phantom handballs. Four words are all that is needed: Greg Berhalter Peter Prendergast
Phantom Handballs Berhalter's handball (it was Berhalter, right?) vs. Costa Rica was highway robbery. Or a get-even call after the noncall on Frankie Hejduk's bad tackle on the box, if you like. But either way, that incident was not a true handball. JOB's play was different. Regardless of what JOB's true intent, his play certainly looked a lot more intentional than did Berhalter's. A ref isn't a mindreader; he's gotta call what he sees. And what he should have witnessed was an arm sticking straight up and knocking away a dangerous ball. We were quite fortunate that JOB wasn't red carded and a PK awarded to Mexico.
Re: Phantom Handballs Did the ref see the handball and considered it to be accidental ? or he never called it because he didn't see it ? There was a similar incident in yesterdays game between England -Turkey , a turkish defender redirected (stoped) the ball from its path with his arm as he was jumping to head the ball away. No penalty was called. The law states that it has to be intentional . Did the ball hit the players hand or the player moved his hand into the ball , that is the question. In the Germany game the defender moved his had in the direction of the ball, a penalty should have been called but no red card .
It's not a red card. A red card is denying a clear scoring opportunity (keeper for Ven., Frings v. Germany). Usually it's called a PK, but not a red card.
Just a point of clarification....only intentional handballs are called as PKs. Only intentional handballs that stop a clear goalscoring opportunity are red-carded. As far as JOB's handball is concerned, it's a judgement call. Sure his hands were away from his body, but not so unusual for someone trying to jump up and gain more height. To me, the handball was unintentional. I think a bad referee (e.g. the Italy vs. Chile ref) would have called for a PK, but in my mind it wasn't at all clear that the handball was intentional. Good call.
OK, maybe a red card would have been a stretch. Although I've seen worse calls. But for sure, you have your arm up in the box and knock down a ball, you can't complain if the opponents get a free kick.
Re: Re: Hand of JOB??? No argument here. There are two different topics being discussed. MarioKempes and I are saying: If you look at it on film and judge it on the law as written, we don't think it's a handball. You're saying: A lot of refs would have called handball. (I agree, but that doesn't make it the correct call.) Various Styles is saying: I don't care about reality, I just wish it had been called handball. (Apologies in advance if I misrepresented anyone's opinion.)
Oh please!How can you say that the hand ball wasn't intentional when John'O Brien clearly punched the ball away with his fist in a aerial challenge off a Mexican corner kick?
It was a clear Pk. However, I would not have given O'brien a direct red card, it was not a clear scoring opportunity. However, I would have given him a yellow card which he already had. So he would have gotten ejected either way.