Hamm goals, Lilly caps records to be reduced?

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by DCUPopeAndLillyFan, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    Apr 20, 2000
    In researching for my archive, I came across five matches in 1993 that should not be counted as full internationals (World University Games), yet the USSF did. Here's what I've sent to various entities:

    Greetings all,

    My name is Ron Kessler and I have maintained an archive of results and rankings for women's international soccer for the past seven years. I'm writing to inform you of a records mistake I have discovered concerning the US women's national team.

    The US Soccer Federation counts five matches played in July, 1993 as full internationals when they clearly were not. These matches were a part of the World University Games in Hamilton, Ontario (Canada). By defenition, these were not full internationals due to the restricted nature of the teams (university students only) and no other nation involved in this tournament has counted any of their matches, including the US opponents.

    The USSF has counted all statistics from these matches and statistics for the players involved should be modified. Two totals of particular note would change - Mia Hamm's record goal scoring total would be reduced by six and Kristine Lilly's record cap total would be reduced by three to five (I could not obtain lineups for these matches but Lilly scored in three matches). At least they still easily hold their top spots in their respective categories.

    The following was taken from www.rsssf.com (US goalscorers listed):

    Jul 17 93 L 1-2 China Hamilton, Canada

    Jul 14 93 W 2-0 Russia Hamilton, Canada
    Hamilton, Lilly

    Jul 12 93 W 3-1 Chinese Taipei Hamilton, Canada
    Hamm, Lilly, Venturini

    Jul 10 93 W 7-0 Japan Hamilton, Canada
    Rafanelli (3), Hamm (2), Kramarz, Venturini

    Jul 07 93 W 6-0 Australia Hamilton, Canada
    Egan, Hamm (3), Lilly, Rafanelli

    I confirmed that these matches were included in players' totals through rsssf.com - counting all of Hamm's goals these six would have to be included for her to have reached 100 against Russia in Sept, 1998 and 108 against Brazil in May, 1999 as claimed.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely,

    Ron Kessler
  2. Labdarugo

    Labdarugo Member

    Dec 3, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, you must have a lot of free time!


    Keep us posted on what (if anything) you hear. Sounds like you have a legitimate point. If the USSF do anything I doubt it would be until well after both players retire though ...
  3. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    Apr 20, 2000
    Not really, I maintain an active list of men's and women's international results to run rankings off of. When FIFA put it's archive of women's results out, I double-checked mine against it and realized I didn't have those five matches, but wondered why the heck we would play five one-off matches in Canada like that. Some web-searching led me to find they were part of the World University Games. The USSF lists these matches (the reason FIFA listed them) but no other national federation lists theirs - these were restricted teams (to students) and not senior international teams.

    At least Hamm and Lilly would still lead their categories. I was initially afraid Akers would fall out of the century club, but I believe her student days were long gone and she wasn't eligible to play (I don't have the lineups, but she didn't score any goals at least).
  4. Awe-Inspiring

    Awe-Inspiring New Member

    Jan 18, 2000
    Akers was 27 in 1993 and from what I know graduated college in four years, so I'm virtually certain you are correct.

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