Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The best way to get liberals to stop functioning as liberals is to scare them about the opposition. Once they start thinking that the political opposition is an unreasonable group of mouth breathers suddenly they start espousing Orwellian "doublethink" with zero issues.
     
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  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Over here we have a large number of Muslim voters who instinctively support the Palestinians. They nearly always support the labour party. To that we can add a number of younger people who are just now becoming familiar with the history of the conflict, (for obvious reasons), and, not unreasonably, think the Palestinians have been badly treated.

    So the historic support for Jews from the left, (which was extremely strong), has been weakened, particularly if people seem to be repeating platitudes and excuses for the current IDF overreaction.

    That will NOT go down well.
     
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  3. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now the people putting up the posters of kidnapped toddlers are the "bad actors?"

    I'll put it pretty plainly- anyone tearing down posters of kidnapped Israelis is a loathsome antisemite. If I found out one of my friends did that, our relationship would be over, and they'd no longer be welcome in my house.
     
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  4. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    #7529 TyffaneeSue, Dec 6, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2023
    "Nowadays, the word Zionist is often used as a swearword. As a negative label. Many Palestinians and supporters of the Palestinian cause no longer distinguish between the words 'Jew', 'Israeli' and 'Zionist'. That is not correct. Most Jews do not live in Israel. Not every inhabitant of Israel is Jewish; there are also many non-Jews living in Israel. And not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' who want to conquer more and more Palestinian land.

    The vast majority of Jews believe that the State of Israel should continue to exist. But many Jews, both living in Israel and elsewhere, are in favour of a Palestinian state alongside Israel as a possible solution to the conflict.

    To cut a long story short: although many Jews identify with Zionism, there are still many different points of view. That is reason enough not to mix up the words 'Jew', 'Israelis' and 'Zionists'. "

    Also note: Israel was established as a multi-cultural, multi-religion country. The Arabs living in the area in 1948 were offered Israeli citizenship. And some of the biggest heroes of October 7 were Israeli Bedouins who risked their lives to save their Jewish neighbors.

    The main difference between Israel and other countries is that Jews will always have a home in Israel. I understand that those of you who didn't grow up with a history of expulsion -- or a mother who became a stateless alien as a child -- might not recognize what that means to many of us.
     
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  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Since we are talking about whether anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic maybe the issue is the lack of nuance in this board and the West.

    In Israel there are more stances and I suggest that the closest to what most of you espouse is Post-Zionism. In essence, now that Israel exists and is a strong, viable state the issue is how to make it a fairer society that does not victimize Palestinians.
     
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  6. Scissorkick Collins

    Dec 30, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aren’t you the guy who patrols local supermarkets daring kids too look at you the wrong way for your support of Israel so you can use your gun or show off your weight-lifting prowess?
     
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  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What about people minimising the suffering of the people in Gaza or explaining away the actions of the IDF... how do you feel about them?
     
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  8. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That post won the day..... :ROFLMAO::D:ROFLMAO::D
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    FWIW, I suppose on that basis I'D be described as a zionist because I support the idea of a jewish homeland. For me, (and I suspect for many of us), the idea of jews having a 'bolt-hole' makes sense. The problem, as we've discussed, is how far that argument is being pushed and also the disingenuous arguments used to support people adopting such a position.
     
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  10. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The people I know who support Israel in this conflict aren't thrilled about what's happening to Palestinian civilians. But, we all know that their deaths are the fault of Hamas.

    Some people (like my parents) just don't care about this conflict, one way or the other, since they don't see it as an American problem. I'm fine with that position. But even if you don't agree with that stance, indifference is a lot less morally repugnant than gleefully tearing down posters of kids kidnapped by terrorists.
     
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  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Some inside knowledge which, I freely admit, has passed me by? Dunno!
     
  12. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We do, do we? :rolleyes:

    So, IOW, feck 'em! Well nice to know where we stand at least.
     
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  13. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At the end of the day, the government of Gaza is responsible for the lives of its civilians, and it has the full power to end this war by returning the hostages, surrendering to the IDF, and turning over the planners and perpetrators of the 10/7 massacre.

    Until they do, every dead Gazan is on them.
     
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  14. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I am gutted by what's happening to the people of Gaza. You'd have to be less than human not to be moved by that misery.

    However, I'm not going to forget that Hamas assaulted, raped, murdered, and kidnapped Israelis on October 7 with full knowledge that there would be a reprisal. They are well aware of Israel's military. They knew that many innocent residents would die. This war wouldn't be happening if not for their insane bloodlust, so yes, it's on them.
     
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  15. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Jesus wept... LOL

    With 'supporters' like you the Jews are going to need all the help they can get. You're almost a cardboard cut-out right-wing idiot and villain.

    Hang on... are you the ron death Santis supporter?
     
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  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So this insane bloodlust wouldn't have happened if not for the other insane bloodlust.
     
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  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Again, since people like you are so cavalier with Palestinian lives, what would be your target # of dead Gazans to make Hamas "give up"? Humor us. Throw out a number, Whole Foods Avenger.
     
  18. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamas only does what it does because they know Israel will overreact and kill a bunch of Palestinian kids. They then use those dead Palestinian kids for PR in rich Arab countries and such to get those countries to isolate Israel. This time, Israel was in talks to normalize relations with Saudi Arabia, and now they're not. Hamas got what they wanted, and they're not afraid to get some Palestinian kids killed in the process.

    The only way that cycle breaks is if Israel doesn't react with the military. This is assuming that we can't stop Hamas or whoever on the Palestinian militant side from attacking Israel - and given that they don't care about the consequences (dead Palestinian kids) and in fact use those dead Palestinian kids to their advantage, the chances of getting them to stop poking the beehive are practically zero. So we need Israel to not respond as expected, and show the Palestinians that they care more about Palestinian kids than Hamas (or whichever group is in charge of Gaza - there's always going to be an anti-Israel group in Gaza, whether they're called Hamas or something else) does.

    Is that going to happen? Not while Netanyahu's in charge. And it's a really big ask. After 9/11, the concept of not sending the US military after Osama bin Laden was unthinkable to most Americans. So we went and bombed Afghanistan, and didn't get Osama until a decade later under a different President, but sure did kill a lot of Afghan civilians. But the parallel is that it would take a huge change - a completely different country, really - to have a 9/11 happen to them and not respond with the military.
     
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  19. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He is also a proud pro “Wipe Gaza” as well. So it all makes sense.
     
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  20. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where do you think the “Whole Foods Avenger” moniker comes from?
     
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  21. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    War is War. When you hear about the IDF gang-raping women and kidnapping babies, let me know. I'll be the first to condemn them.
     
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  22. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    right, I’m referring to pre Hamas era when the PA represented both Gaza and WB, back when peace had a chance. But even back then, as we agree, settlements were a major thorn. In the grand scheme it always seemed like such a ridiculous reason for the process to fail, why couldn’t Israel be content with the land it already controlled?
     
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  23. Scissorkick Collins

    Dec 30, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is so accurate. Looking forward to the South Park episode based on this type of guy.

    Whole Foods Avenger: “WTF ARE YOU LOOKING AT, HUH? YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MY ISRAEL T-SHIRT? YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH I BENCH PRESS!!!”

    Stan and Kyle: “Um, we’re just 5th graders buying something to eat. Calm down dude.”
     
  24. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I was trying to make a point yesterday that while Hamas are terrorists, it doesn't mean they CANNOT surrender nor that international community can apply pressure on Qatar and the Hamas leaders there. But (at least publicly) at this point, the only pressure that has been mounting is on Israel.
     
  25. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will need to post a picture of my neighborhood WF here!

    what about the concealed weapon? Too much for South Park?
     
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