Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember when Republicans were super in to free speech on campuses.
     
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  2. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Got it, so even if Soros supports the campaigns of radical left-wing public prosecutors, we can't talk about it because Elon Musk compared him to a comic book character.

    Try not to hurt yourself with that stretch.
     
  3. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, not all jews are Zionists. That's an absurd assertion. At least one of my friends (a very long-time family friend), an old-timer civil rights, labor organizer fella named Ira Grupper, would have unpleasant words to say to anyone who called him a Zionist. I'm quite sure the rest of my jewish friends would make it clear that they are not Zionists and don't agree that "Zionist" is synonymous with "jew".
     
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  4. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I think he even guest lectured there (or Harvard) few times, but can't recall.
     
  5. GalaxyBowl

    GalaxyBowl Member

    LA Galaxy
    Aug 21, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t believe that being anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic. Being generous, I can imagine an "anti-zionist" person in earnest believing that a “Jewish state” implies a state where Jewish people are prioritized over other peoples. There is a sizable chunk of Israel that isn’t Jewish and practices other religions. And even if they were only half a percent of the makeup in Israel, it still wouldn’t be right. I know there are secular and non-practicing Jewish people, but even then, why aren’t foreign-based non-Jewish peoples with lineage to the region lacking the right of return or birthright?
     
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  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What? Regurgitating Aipac talking point??? Surely not :D
     
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  7. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the context of the current situation, the antisemitism, intimidation and violence is almost all coming from the left. The right-wing people I know (including MAGA voters) in the US are all supportive of Israel.

    But I'm sure you're going to tell me how the Tory folks in the English countryside are the ones tearing down posters of missing Israeli kids.
     
  8. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Are you purposefully twisting my words? When did I say all Jews are Zionists. I said I know some Jews who are not typically pro-Israel, but who are still Zionists. Did you ever ask your friends what their definition of Zionism is? One can be a Christian and be a Zionist too.

    https://www.annefrank.org/en/topics/antisemitism/are-all-jews-zionists/
     
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  9. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Oh for ******** sake, Musk's statement was just one instance of the literally innumerable examples of that trend. But keep on fighting that strawman.
    The MSNBC clip I included has a short montage of other examples of that bullshit being peddled.
     
  10. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no twisting of your words. I'll quote you again:

    If you didn't mean what I thought you meant, it's on you for poor phrasing.
     
  11. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    You are correct in that pro-hamas was incorrect. I should say rhetoric based on Russian and Iranian sourced talking points. Otherwise, dismissing arguments because of their source without reviewing the data is not even close to ideal.

    So, first of all. It's not about trusting one side over the other. It's reviewing assumptions for all sides and backing it up with data. Iran and Russia are closer than ever and this was clearly noticed 20 years ago and we are seeing it reflected in our politics as well. The question then is if the far right is closer than expected to Iran and Russia. From my viewpoint as a South American, yes. For instance, Bolsonaro had clear Russian talking points and many dealings with Russia even though he is locally at odds with Lula.

    Does this reflect in the US. Yes! In particular, Black Americans are largely not aligned with Jews for a long time now. This has been reflected by Black popular culture and political figures. I don't think there is much debate about this. There isn't much question on Trump's connections to Russia, either. There are plenty of data points to see that American Jews are in danger of being politically isolated.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    So many here seem to think that the left and right are like oil and water. I guess as a Bolivian I've seen everything. Heck I saw a Bolivian ex-dictator become a presidential candidate and then ally himself with the leftist party. He put a guy who he chased out of the country in to the presidency! So, my viewpoint is that politicians will do anything to corner the votes. It's actually like that in the US also it just takes longer. Lets not forget that a hundred years ago the Republicans were the slightly more progressive party.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don’t have to know who it was. You just have to understand hearings.
     
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think on this issue the two sides are talking past each other.

    Right now, “on the ground” anti semitism is rising on the left.

    But on the right, it’s leaders’ anti Semitism that’s on the rise.

    So both sides are right, just talking about two different things.
     
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  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    C’mon, you know better than this. Soros has been used by the right wing for years as a totem. It predates Musk’s crap by a decade at least.
     
  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    There is still not much agreement on the number of Hamas militants killed.

    Per WaPo, their IDF sources say 5000.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/05/israel-military-offensive-hamas-destruction-gaza/

    The big issue now, IMO, is less about whether Hamas members are captured and killed but rather what are the steps to implement a true Gaza government that will work for Palestinians best interest. I humbly submit that most Gaza residents are ready to move away from suicide attacks on Israel.
     
  17. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    we've only seen the beginning of this humanitarian disaster...

     
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  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    What is this fascination you seem to have with the UK 'countryside'? Little hint... the USA and Britain aren't the same place and people in the UK 'countryside' aren't necessarily the same as rural voters in the US... not least because a lot of the 'countryside' is only a few miles away from urban environments over here. So they're not the same and many rural voters over here are relatively left-wing ;) In short, you don''t know what you're talking about.

    I've canvassed people who said they're very left-wing but then go on to explain they won't vote labour because we're too soft on asylum seekers or we can't decide what a women is or we want to spend too much money on poor people.

    I mean, what sort of 'left-wing' person is it that holds THOSE sorts of position on those issues.

    They only thing such people generally agree about is that they want rich people to pay more taxes but then, they're generally not well off themselves, so...

    There are also now a lot of younger people who feel sorry for the Palestinians and don't understand why the left are still apparently still supporting the people attacking them, particularly in the US where Biden has been FAR too supportive of Israel in the past.

    Even if it's understandable in the context of the 7th Oct attack, what was the excuse before?

    Unfortunately, like a lot of young people, they can easily get suckered into reacting to things like bad actors sticking up posters to get a reaction in areas with large numbers of Muslims, particularly over here where ~7% of the population are Muslims.
     
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  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, but Musk is left-wing dude... everyone knows that ;) :D
     
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  20. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    There is something Joseph McCarthy about this.
     
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  21. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Senator McCarthy never voted for Donald Trump. Did you?
     
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  22. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This whole discussion is silly: the discussion about whether not all Jews are zionists misses the point.

    The crowd that's saying "antizionism = antisemitism" is telling Palestinians that being opposed to the theft of their homes and continued decades of dispossession and more theft is racism.
     
  23. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Sussex is very beautiful, as a complete aside. Spent some of my formative years there. been back a couple of times since, with my family. Brightling to be exact, near Battle, 1066 country.
     
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  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Anyone moving away from the Marketplace of Ideas is against liberalism.
     
  25. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't disagree with your comment about the WB, but the WB and Gaza are (nominally) governed by two very different sets of leaders, and the current issue is with Gaza and Hamas.

    Most Israelis and diaspora Jews consider the WB settlements a major thorn in the bigger picture peace process. But Israel destroyed all its Gaza settlements back in the aughts.
     
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