Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

Tags:
  1. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So we have to differentiate between people who support Hamas’ stated aims of killing Jews and ending Israel, and those who also support their organization dedicated to those aims?
     
    edcalvi, Raumdeuter, Moishe and 2 others repped this.
  2. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    their lives were just as shitty before Hamas, which is why they ended up with Hamas, out of hopelessness, despair and utter futility. The situation hasn’t changed in Gaza, same old ideology just got a new name and a new flag.
     
    Deadtigers and tomásbernal repped this.
  3. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Sorry, what? We decided?
     
  4. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The perpetrators of 10/7 gleefully murdered u armed men, women, children and then called home to brag about what they had done.

    Yes, I keep posting that because you can’t normalize that kind of hate by saying their lives under Hamas is no different than before.
     
    edcalvi, chad, Moishe and 1 other person repped this.
  5. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    #7380 Quakes05, Dec 5, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2023
    The normal part is that there’s always been a simmering tension there which boils over occasionally into hostilities and atrocities, we’ve just never seen it on this scale, from either side, that I can remember. And ultimately the sooner we can get to an endgame, the better. Hamas isn’t going to be completely eradicated and there are hundreds of thousands of displaced people being completely terrorized, around the clock. Israel can squeeze them all into Rafah, but then what?
     
    charlie15 and Chesco United repped this.
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You can only say this if you have no concept of the sheer horror of the situation in Gaza these last twenty years, a situation that Israel bears primary responsibility for.
     
  7. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nothing can justify 10/7.
     
    edcalvi repped this.
  8. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I didn't say anything did, and you're correct: nothing can justify Hamas's crimes. But in the same vein, there is also no justification for Israel's crimes before or after.

    No one here is justifying Hamas's crimes. Plenty of people are justifying Israel's.
     
    Dendenmushi, majspike, ElNaranja and 8 others repped this.
  9. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For Israel, winning means something like a Gaza where Hamas has been degraded in its capabilities to the point where it would take 5-10 years for it to rearm to the level of trying to pull off a major attack again.

    After this war is done, no Gazan will be allowed to work in, or even enter, Israel for a generation or more. The border will get even more heavily reinforced, and Israel’s only interaction with Gaza will be of a military nature.
     
  10. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Both Israel AND Egypt, Gaza's neighbors, have been forced to take measures to try to stem the constant flow of weapons into Gaza and the attacks emanating from that land. So you can blame the neighbors, but Gaza chooses how it wants to use its resources, and the neighbors are responding to that.
     
  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The bolded part is absurd. Completely and utterly absurd.

    In other news, unbeknownst to everyone on Earth, JFK gave $500,000,000,000,000,000 to the Soviet Union for development of nuclear weapons, with the caveat that those weapons must be used against the US. Seems legit.
     
    Deadtigers and charlie15 repped this.
  12. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can’t be naive enough to believe that some significant percentage of that money (or the things that money buys) doesn’t end up in the pockets of Hamas.
     
    edcalvi and Moishe repped this.
  13. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be illogical to think Hamas doesn't end up getting some of the money that comes in in the form of aid for Gaza. But, have they received more money from both US and European leaders than just about any other country in the history of the world? Which is how @yasik19 put it, and @Naughtius Maximus responded to?
     
    Naughtius Maximus and charlie15 repped this.
  14. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    M repped this.
  15. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Like I keep saying this policy of making Israel a special partner goes back decades to the 70s. It is a DoD idea that the Presidents are given to move off of it requires an alternative and takes years. Uncle Joey can't do that. He just happens to be the president as things turn sour and he has to ride it out. While the DoD looks for a new partner.
     
    Auriaprottu repped this.
  16. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I should have clarified to say Palestinians and "development and humanitarian aid".
     
  17. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    The Israeli people that didn't vote for Bibi and the Palestinians that don't support Hamas are the best you can get.
     
    superdave and Naughtius Maximus repped this.
  18. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Maybe not. A few Dems including Jewish ones like Rashkin and Bernie have spoken out about restrictions and the Freedom Caucus is big on Isolationism so there maybe change in future policy but that is contingent on what the Arms lobby do to sway elected officials.
     
  19. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The underlying premise of your post is misplaced. Gaza isn't an independent entity: it's a territory that's been occupied and ruled over by Israel for going on 60 years now, and Israel controls most aspects its existence including the borders, entry and exit, the flow of food and goods, the airspace, and so on.

    Hell, even the mention of Egypt is a red herring, because there is only one entry and exit point to Gaza that Israel doesn't directly control.

    Your posts are an attempt to exculpate Israel from the sovereignty it's exercised over Gaza for going on sixty years.
     
  20. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Israel withdrew from Gaza twenty years ago. Most Israelis would like nothing more than for Gaza to be independent and self-governing (rather than dependent on Israel for just about everything) but that won't happen as long as Gaza cares more about killing Jews than about contributing to the development of their own land. You think Israelis like dealing with a constant barrage of rockets and trips to the shelters? How would you like to live like that?

    Note the speculation that Hamas acted when it did because it was unhappy about the alliances forming between Israel and the more powerful Arab countries. Peace is anathema to Hamas.
     
    edcalvi, Moishe and Potowmack repped this.
  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The new tactic for IDF is to flood the tunnels. That will probably work best to avoid civilian loss since, apparently, Hamas claimed or admitted that the tunnels were not for civilians.
     
  22. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    If only Egypt gave Gaza and Jordan gave West Bank to Palestinians b/w 1948 and 1967, we'd all have peace.
     
    Moishe repped this.
  23. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Did violence and attacks to civilians through suicide bombers exist before the blockade on Gaza ? Had Israel not done this blockade, would things be any better with respect to the conflict ? It might even be fair to say that very likely, things could be worse with more attacks on both sides. I don't understand singling out this 20 year period of blockade in Gaza as a cause when we all know the reasons are deeper. If there was no blockade, Palestinians would be hanging on to the refugee situation, the settlements as a reason for attacks. I bet if there were no settlements in the West Bank, they'd still be justifying violence on the other issues.

    Mind you, I am not saying the Palestinians are wrong for how they feel. They got screwed when Israel was created.
     
    edcalvi, Raumdeuter and Deadtigers repped this.
  24. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    So you think that given the history of the conflict, leaving the Palestinians in Gaza alone should have been enough for them to be happy ?
     
    Deadtigers repped this.
  25. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    …as long as it doesn’t include the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

    Honest question, what percentage of Israelis support the settlement expansion policy? If the answer is “ not many”, then how did the current government under Bibi come to be?

    If we are going to dissect Hamas support amongst the people of Gaza, then we also need to take a closer look at this.
     

Share This Page