Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    He actually said he would recently and has been saying as much as far back as July.

    They want to die on that hill, they're more than welcome to. But don't come crying when it happens.
     
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  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem won't be the leaders who have generally been more supportive of the Israeli government.. It's the voters who have been moving quite decisively in favour of the Palestinians.

    In the long run that can't be good for the Israelis as anyone who supports the Israelis will be risking their elections if things get tight.
    It will be different in different countries, obviously.

    Over here labour will almost certainly get in with a hefty majority next year. After that, we'll have to see.

    Hopefully enough US voters will realise that Trump is SUCH a danger, (not just to muslims or 'the left' but actually to democracy itself), that they'll turn out against him. But, after that, what's going to happen?

    It might be that some voters will just sit on their hands if a DNC candidate tries to get elected with a policy of strong support for Israel in the same way the ground was cut from beneath Hillary.
     
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  3. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    And that is the bottom line on the Palestinian side. As for Gaza, by now, many have been born into this nightmare. They don’t know anything else. Expecting the average Palestinian in Gaza to have a rational, detached perspective is simply unrealistic. And in the West Bank, where things are a bit better, any hope of a normal life and future gets crushed by never-ending land annexation.

    Israel may not like it, but it is up to them to progress any semblance of real peace. They hold just about all the cards and are therefore held to a higher standard. The occasional air sirens are distressing, no doubt, but compared to daily life in Gaza it still represents an infinitely better quality of life.

    A new approach is badly needed by the Israeli government (also to keep its own citizens safe), and putting an immediate end to the land theft in the West Bank would be a right start.
     
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  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Unfortunately people don't think it will be them... it will only be the BAD muslims. They're one of the 'good ones'.
     
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  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The only upside of fascism is going to be laughing at all the people who whined that grandpa joe didn't give them a magic unicorn. Maybe their no labels vote will provide some cold comfort while they huddle in the deportation camps
     
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  6. LastBoyscout

    LastBoyscout Member+

    Mar 6, 2013
    So you think they are legitimate military targets got it.
     
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  7. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    If that's the definition of victory, it seems like Israel can "win" without any military action in Gaza. The 10/7 attack involved a poorly equipped irregular force swarming across a small segment of heavily monitored border and wreaking havoc in the surrounding area for hours while encountering little initial resistance. I feel like a country with a $20 billion military budget should be able to prevent that simply by paying a bit more attention.

    Similarly, if the USA's goal after 9/11 was to prevent al-Qaeda being able to perpetrate a similar attack, we could have declared victory on 9/12. Zacarias Moussaoui was arrested in August, and two of the hijackers were on the terrorist watch list when they got on the plane! The fact that the USA failed to take some fairly straightforward precautions before the attack did not mean that an interstate war (or massive internal security apparatus) was now needed to prevent a similar attack going forward.
     
  8. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/hip-hop-war-anthem-reaches-number-one-in-israel/

    I actually wondered what Dua Lipa did wrong to earn a mention as one of the enemies in this song and it appears to be this IG post.

    393246174_1780020122418749_1178115455583340865_n.jpg
     
  9. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I don't really get why people would be surprised that the Muslim-American community is upset right now and I don't think the Dems will win many of them back with messaging like "Enjoy Trump's internment camps then!".
     
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  10. The talk is about this behaviour being a necesity for the safety/security of Israel. The fact is it's a existential threat to the existence of Israel in the long(er) run.
    I can't get it that certain posters in here still are backing the slaughter and not understanding the danger it poses to that very thing they crave, the safety/security of Is rael.
     
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  11. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    So sweet
     
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  12. What about this slaughter being the birth of the out of Gaza hamas? Now with support from people, who witness the slaughter on tv and hear the justification of wiping out entire families to get at a hamas fighter, based on some AI algorythm. Once you become seen as a senseless murdering entity, people stop seeing those who come after you as villains.
    The objective of hamas is supposed to ignite a regional conflict, but with the way Israel is operating they might have set the scene for a global retribution against Israeli people and linked to that Jewish people all over the world.
     
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  13. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS

    The region is heating up, no question. The current war is only going to harden world opinion, Palestinians are quite literally defenseless against IDF.
     
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  14. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is an other good article on Haaretz. No doubt this showdown is going to happen sooner than later.
    From what I read or heard, the WH was totally opposed privately to the attacks on Al Shifa for that matter, among other issues.

    Alon Pinkus: “In a few weeks’ time, U.S. President Joe Biden will find out that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu isn’t ignoring U.S. advice, defying U.S. requests or bragging that ‘he stood up to America’ because he has an alternative and better war policy and is merely exercising Israel’s decision-making sovereignty.”

    “The Biden administration will discover instead that Netanyahu is deliberately confronting them, so he can blame the American president for ‘holding him back’ and denying Israel the opportunity to eradicate Hamas.”

    “He is doing so for purely political reasons, as part of his fabricated narrative that ignores his culpability and responsibility for October 7, and instead focuses on the war and how he was on the precipice of a major victory until Biden prevented him from completing the mission.”
     
  15. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soon after this started I checked in with my ex-girlfriend who’s Israeli American, because I knew her sister’s family lived over there. She said they were fine but that two of her nephews were currently doing their required service in the army, so she was freaking out a little about that.
     
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  16. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “Similar attack” in terms of scale and effectiveness, of course they’re not going to pull off the same KIND of attack.
     
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  17. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
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    United States
    Israel's population is small, relative to many other countries. How large is Gaza? Do the sirens in Gaza scare people? Are there sirens at all?
     
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  18. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    "...UN estimates that nearly 80% (1.8 million) of the Gaza strips 2.3 million people have fled their homes and Gazans say they're running out of safe places to go..."

     
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  19. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
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  20. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    So one Chanukah celebration was cancelled in London, now another one in Virginia.
    https://ujcvp.org/ujc-chai-lights/f...sunday’s-cancellation-of-hanukkah-celebration
    The Jewish Community of the Virginia Peninsula is shocked and alarmed at LoveLight Placemaking’s decision to cancel a menorah lighting scheduled for the Second Sundays Art and Music Festival on Dec 10 in Williamsburg – claiming it did not want to appear to choose sides in the Israel-Hamas conflict. To be clear, the menorah lighting, which was to be led by a local community rabbi, had nothing to do with Israel or the conflict.

    Yet, appallingly, the event organizer claimed that a Chanukah celebration would send a message that the festival was "supporting the killing/bombing of thousands of men, women, and children," -- and even went a step further, by offering to reinstate the event if it was done under a banner calling for a ceasefire.
     
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  21. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    yep, they should reinstate the Menorah ceremony in Williamsburg, that’s not right. We’re going to see more and more of this type of thing, unfortunately. I told my wife as we were driving into the city yesterday, don’t be surprised if we run into protests, then, sure enough, big pro Palestinian rally as we were driving through the Castro.
     
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  22. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Yep, I drove through that too on the way to my daughter's school.

    At least one joy is the Niners.
     
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  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I passed the protest at City Hall yesterday. A lot of anger at Biden.
     
  24. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Not sure how fair it is but I could see it costing democrats in the general election.
     
  25. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Short of a similar incursion into Israel (which would require a similar degree of Israeli obliviousness), how could Hamas mount a successful attack of comparable scale? What's the scenario?

    They could keep on firing rockets. But while Israel would want to prevent that (as any targeted country would), I think that most people would not view those rockets as sufficient justification for a military operation that kills thousands of civilians, displaces hundreds of thousands, and devastates the civilian infrastructure that millions depend on.

    So what's the realistic and achievable post-war outcome that Israel envisions, and that would justify the horrific humanitarian impact of their military operation? Vague or general answers are not adequate answers.
     
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