Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Er... WHAT?

I'm saying, (I thought it was perfectly obvious but there we are), that the Israelis seem to claiming that they, alone, are facing a uniquely evil and intractable foe who cannot be reasoned with. So I'M not saying it... I'm saying THEY seem to be saying it, at least, by implication.

If they're not saying that then they need to start moving to negotiations with whomever they can such as the PA and Fatah in the west bank, supported by other, more independent interlocutors who could support a negotiated settlements like the Arab states.

 

Well, the Israelis aren't the British government who, despite their faults, at least were honest enough to recognise that they'd have to accept responsibility for their actions instead of blaming everyone ELSE for their problems in the search for peace

So, in THAT sense it's not like northern Ireland, I agree.

Well said dave

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...-gaza-suggest-it-wont-have-months-to-win-war/

There is something slightly disturbing about Blinken's objection to the same operational parameters being used in the South of Gaza, mostly because it means the Biden administration is well aware of the fact lines were crossed in Northern Gaza but still (at least publicly) condoned what happened.

 

Not using gang rape as a weapon of war would be a good place to start.

I mean, you're supposed to be fighting a war to liberate your people. Any time taken off for a little recreational misogyny is time not spent fighting Israeli soldiers and police or taking Israelis hostage to be exchanged for your prisoners.

As a number of former spooks and Special Ops veterans have noted, that happening once or twice wouldn't mean so much in itself, but for it to have happened on such a scale - with the Hamas equivalent of NCOs of Lieutenants looking on or taking part - means that the Hamas military wing's top leadership made a conscious decision to use gang rape as a war tactic.

People who make that kind of a choice are never going to come up with any kind of military strategy, or to do anything other than eff one up if it was presented to them on a platter.

And God forbid that they ever do get their hands on "planes, tanks or other modern equipment".

 

Worked on Al Qaeda, didn’t it?

 

Right.

But go back to my post about how wars are fought when there’s a massive technological gap between the two sides. I’m absolutely not condoning this! But realistically, it’s inevitable. It’s just another way Hamas targets civilians because if they fought the IDF straight up, it’d be a slaughter.

The policy of Israel and every nation with that tech edge is to blindly insist and believe that the other side will play by Israeli rules even though it means that other side will lose the battle or war in a very decisive way. And when the other side doesn’t, Israel/the US/etc. don’t have an answer. Not a useful one anyway.

 

I've already pointed out that with Mosul, where a similar group was based, the west didn't just blunder in. They had a body setup to take over the region and administer it after victory.

This is precisely the point jitty and I have been saying, (among others). WHAT'S the plan here?

 

Anyone in the pro-Israel camp who cannot admit that the land theft in the West Bank (or Judea and Samaria, if you prefer) with radical settlers presents a fundamental obstacle to the peace process doesn’t want, well, peace.

The land annexation has to be brought to an immediate stop, without conditions of any sort for the Palestinians. Preserving whatever land is left for some kind of Palestinian autonomy is not remotely controversial unless you are an absolute hardliner. There is zero room for whataboutism here.

This aspect of the conflict is fully within Israel’s control, and it is especially here that the “international community” expects so much more from the “only democracy in the Middle East”.

 

14000 was the Palestinian number a while back, 1400 was the Israeli number, If I'm understanding you correctly. Palestinian dead are over 15000 now apparently, mostly women and kids.

 

Wasn’t that land acquired via a counterattack, not an attack? Your overall point doesn’t change, but surely that’s important context.

 

Swing-state Muslim leaders launch campaign to ‘abandon’ Biden in 2024 https://t.co/0YyN8Ir3zv

— POLITICO (@politico) December 2, 2023

This combined with a less enthused 18-29 demographic could be enough to almost cost Biden the election on its own.

 

So you would be fine if hamas targeted the private residences of IDF members? Those are legitimate military targets?

 

I’m sure Trump would be just as good to the Muslim community as the last time.

Hopefully Muslim swing state voters are more intelligent than their leaders.

 

The continuous chipping away of Area C and B over the years via settlements? Absolutely not.

For context, Area C is fully controlled by Israel.

 

this TBN video (released yesterday) speaks to this, describes (in some detail) joint Israel/US operations to counterattack Iran proxy militants in Lebanon and Yemen. interestingly, TBN Israel is Trinity Broadcasting Network, Christian based TV out of Texas.

 

I mean this is the argument I have seen people make in response, "Trump will reinstate the Muslim ban" but that is a rational argument against something that is more an emotional response, so I'm not sure how effective it will be.

 

Back in the mid-90s, during the first intifada, the Israeli commander in the West Bank was doing a walkabout (yes, that was possible then) just after Israel's Independence Day celebrations which had been marked by a large parade in Jerusalem with some recently-acquired aircraft which had got star billing. He got into a discussion/argument with some young Palestinians and the exchange went something along the lines of

Youth: Your aircraft control the skies up there, yes?
General: Yes, they do and against tanks and armoured vehicles as well.
Youth: How do they help against stone-throwers and slingshots down here?
General: (dry smile) "I had no answer."​

There is, and has been for some time, a school of thought in Israel that argues, in the off-the-record words of one high-ranking security figure, that there is no answer and that "solutions" are for mathematics tests. All that can be done is to keep developing operational responses that will ensure that Israel is ahead and stays ahead of anything their enemies can come up with.

The ugly truth is that that's the most realistic scenario and, for the Israelis, the most "optimistic" - long spells of relative peace and prosperity, punctuated by spasms of horrible violence.

For the Palestinians, it's a never-ending nightmare.