Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #7151 Naughtius Maximus, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    Er... WHAT?

    I'm saying, (I thought it was perfectly obvious but there we are), that the Israelis seem to claiming that they, alone, are facing a uniquely evil and intractable foe who cannot be reasoned with. So I'M not saying it... I'm saying THEY seem to be saying it, at least, by implication.

    If they're not saying that then they need to start moving to negotiations with whomever they can such as the PA and Fatah in the west bank, supported by other, more independent interlocutors who could support a negotiated settlements like the Arab states.
     
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  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Well, the Israelis aren't the British government who, despite their faults, at least were honest enough to recognise that they'd have to accept responsibility for their actions instead of blaming everyone ELSE for their problems in the search for peace

    So, in THAT sense it's not like northern Ireland, I agree.

    Well said dave :)
     
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  3. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
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  4. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Not using gang rape as a weapon of war would be a good place to start.

    I mean, you're supposed to be fighting a war to liberate your people. Any time taken off for a little recreational misogyny is time not spent fighting Israeli soldiers and police or taking Israelis hostage to be exchanged for your prisoners.

    As a number of former spooks and Special Ops veterans have noted, that happening once or twice wouldn't mean so much in itself, but for it to have happened on such a scale - with the Hamas equivalent of NCOs of Lieutenants looking on or taking part - means that the Hamas military wing's top leadership made a conscious decision to use gang rape as a war tactic.

    People who make that kind of a choice are never going to come up with any kind of military strategy, or to do anything other than eff one up if it was presented to them on a platter.

    And God forbid that they ever do get their hands on "planes, tanks or other modern equipment".
     
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  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    Worked on Al Qaeda, didn’t it?

    :rolleyes:
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right.

    But go back to my post about how wars are fought when there’s a massive technological gap between the two sides. I’m absolutely not condoning this! But realistically, it’s inevitable. It’s just another way Hamas targets civilians because if they fought the IDF straight up, it’d be a slaughter.

    The policy of Israel and every nation with that tech edge is to blindly insist and believe that the other side will play by Israeli rules even though it means that other side will lose the battle or war in a very decisive way. And when the other side doesn’t, Israel/the US/etc. don’t have an answer. Not a useful one anyway.
     
  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I've already pointed out that with Mosul, where a similar group was based, the west didn't just blunder in. They had a body setup to take over the region and administer it after victory.

    This is precisely the point jitty and I have been saying, (among others). WHAT'S the plan here?
     
  8. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The Pentagon says a US warship and multiple commercial ships have come under attack in the Red Sea

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-says-us-warship-multiple-155851709.html

    An American warship and multiple commercial ships came under attack Sunday in the Red Sea, the Pentagon said, potentially marking a major escalation in a series of maritime attacks in the Mideast linked to the Israel-Hamas war.

    There was no immediate comment from the Houthis. However, a Houthi military spokesman earlier said an “important” statement would be released shortly.
     
  9. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    #7159 yasik19, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    Or.....and just hear me out, there are A LOT of dumb ********ing young twats in the world and anti-semitism is alive and kicking, it just needed 1,400+ dead Jews to show the world that Jews can still indeed be murdered. In the long run, we will see what it will mean for Israel, and in fact, I think it will reshape the region for the better. I hope you also do realize that what some (or many) politicians say in public, can be quite different from what they say in private. I've heard on a number of occasions now that most Arab states want Israel to continue and not stop until Hamas is out. They just can't say it in public.
     
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  10. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #7160 Nico Limmat, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    Anyone in the pro-Israel camp who cannot admit that the land theft in the West Bank (or Judea and Samaria, if you prefer) with radical settlers presents a fundamental obstacle to the peace process doesn’t want, well, peace.

    The land annexation has to be brought to an immediate stop, without conditions of any sort for the Palestinians. Preserving whatever land is left for some kind of Palestinian autonomy is not remotely controversial unless you are an absolute hardliner. There is zero room for whataboutism here.

    This aspect of the conflict is fully within Israel’s control, and it is especially here that the “international community” expects so much more from the “only democracy in the Middle East”.
     
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  11. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    14000 was the Palestinian number a while back, 1400 was the Israeli number, If I'm understanding you correctly. Palestinian dead are over 15000 now apparently, mostly women and kids.
     
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  12. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Yes, i will fix it.
     
  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn’t that land acquired via a counterattack, not an attack? Your overall point doesn’t change, but surely that’s important context.
     
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  14. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV


    This combined with a less enthused 18-29 demographic could be enough to almost cost Biden the election on its own.
     
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  15. LastBoyscout

    LastBoyscout Member+

    Mar 6, 2013
    So you would be fine if hamas targeted the private residences of IDF members? Those are legitimate military targets?
     
  16. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
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    I’m sure Trump would be just as good to the Muslim community as the last time.

    Hopefully Muslim swing state voters are more intelligent than their leaders.
     
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  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
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    The continuous chipping away of Area C and B over the years via settlements? Absolutely not.

    For context, Area C is fully controlled by Israel.

    upload_2023-12-3_22-14-21.jpeg
     
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  18. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    this TBN video (released yesterday) speaks to this, describes (in some detail) joint Israel/US operations to counterattack Iran proxy militants in Lebanon and Yemen. interestingly, TBN Israel is Trinity Broadcasting Network, Christian based TV out of Texas.

     
  19. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
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    I mean this is the argument I have seen people make in response, "Trump will reinstate the Muslim ban" but that is a rational argument against something that is more an emotional response, so I'm not sure how effective it will be.
     
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  20. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    Well, those demographic groups need to think about their choices and the consequences which they'll be paired with.
     
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  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    do they think the won’t be among the 10m in Millers deportation camps that he announced in the NYT?

    people are in for a nasty fcking shock
     
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  22. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    But he tells it like it is!

    It's hard to believe that this is in 2023:

    CLIVE, Iowa, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Donald Trump promised on Monday that if elected president again he will bar immigrants who support Hamas from entering the U.S. and send officers to pro-Hamas protests to arrest and deport immigrants who publicly support the Palestinian militant group.

    On a campaign stop in Iowa, Trump was responding to the Hamas killing of at least 1,300 Israelis that triggered a war in which Palestinian health officials say Israel has killed more than 2,800 Palestinians in Gaza.

    Trump, president from 2017-2021, said that if elected to a second White House term he will ban entry to the U.S. of anybody who does not believe in Israel's right to exist, and revoke the visas of foreign students who are "antisemitic."

    He also vowed to step up travel bans from "terror-plagued countries." He did not explain how he would enforce his demands, including the one requiring immigrants to support Israel's right to exist under what he called "strong ideological screening."

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/
     
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  23. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Back in the mid-90s, during the first intifada, the Israeli commander in the West Bank was doing a walkabout (yes, that was possible then) just after Israel's Independence Day celebrations which had been marked by a large parade in Jerusalem with some recently-acquired aircraft which had got star billing. He got into a discussion/argument with some young Palestinians and the exchange went something along the lines of
    Youth: Your aircraft control the skies up there, yes?
    General: Yes, they do and against tanks and armoured vehicles as well.
    Youth: How do they help against stone-throwers and slingshots down here?
    General: (dry smile) "I had no answer."​

    There is, and has been for some time, a school of thought in Israel that argues, in the off-the-record words of one high-ranking security figure, that there is no answer and that "solutions" are for mathematics tests. All that can be done is to keep developing operational responses that will ensure that Israel is ahead and stays ahead of anything their enemies can come up with.

    The ugly truth is that that's the most realistic scenario and, for the Israelis, the most "optimistic" - long spells of relative peace and prosperity, punctuated by spasms of horrible violence.

    For the Palestinians, it's a never-ending nightmare.
     
  24. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Keep in mind that October 7 was only the beginning of the horrors for Israel. Many more Israelis have died since then. Yes, technically military, but since almost everyone serves, these are not professional soldiers but rather everyone's teenaged kids. No family has been untouched.

    Also remember how tiny Israel is. Sirens warning of imminent attack have been going off throughout the country. It's not like the US sending military off to fight in distant lands -- war is all around them every day.
     
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  25. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I'm pretty sure those thousands of rockets are doing precisely that, but you already knew that, didn't you.
     
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