Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I have said push for it. And I've said the only way to do so is with love not weapons of destruction but nobody wants to hear that argument.
     
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  2. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    So what is your point exactly?
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Vietor/Rhodes were moving the focus from raw death toll, to displaced citizens and percentage of Gaza effectively destroyed. We are moving in the direction of 100% effective displacement/destruction which i suspect is the military objective. i.e the whole people are going to be displaced.
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    how should leftists 'push for it"

    What are the sane political, military options that we are asked to support?
     
  5. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    There were already reports of almost everything north of Wadi Gaza being effectively uninhabitable a couple of weeks ago. I can't imagine it has improved since then.
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    Exactly - that is what they were talking about. If the conflict moves south, then .....
     
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  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So, hang on... he killed another Palestinian civilian who just happened to be there? Or was it a third attacker, albeit unarmed.
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hamas isn't an organisation so much as an idea and, with every added dead civilian, (sons, daughters, mother, fathers, etc.), they're creating new ones.
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Didn't you just say a lot of them had filmed themselves? There are also the hostages taken that were witnesses, together with other security footage from the attack.

    It's not like there's a lack of evidence, is it.
     
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  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's obviously what they're trying to achieve.

    Do some light genocide to force people into the desert, assuming the Egyptians will let them into the desert.
     
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  11. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Love? I’m not sure you read the link that Stanger posted or more importantly watched any of the videos that are/were on Telegram because afterwards I just don’t see how any reality based human can use the word love in any way.

    What Hamas did that day is not something that Israelis will forget any time in the near or distant future. You are an idealist and I respect that but how does either side come back from 10/7 and everything that has happened since?



    It is a legitimate question unless you are of the opinion that if you can’t tell who’s who you simply do not retaliate. I mean it would be ideal and awesome if that were the case, but in what world does that reality exist…anywhere?
     
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  12. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Please tell me that this reply is taking the piss.
     
  13. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    It sounded more to me like a blanket excuse for any number of civilian casualties.
     
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  14. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I have read enough of his posts over the years to know that it wasn’t.
     
  15. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I have said before, I have no answers.
     
  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There is clearly a lot of evidence available so I'm not sure what you're saying, tbh.

    The alternative to trying to identify the perpetrators is to randomly kill everyone in Gaza until all the 2.3m people are dead on the basis that, 'We got them now for sure' :) :rolleyes: Are you saying THAT'S a more sensible approach?
     
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  17. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ah yes, Israel and the ICC should issue arrest warrants and stroll into Gaza to pick them up. My response is as ridiculous as yours. I know that Israel’s response has been extreme but you give me the impression that you are minimizing what happened or are actually unaware of the scale of what brought this to a head.
     
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  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    A lot of this comes back to the point that the Israelis have abandoned ANY sort of moral or ethical norms in the conflict with the Palestinians and have simply resorted to brutality, collective punishment and, (more recently), mass slaughter as a response.

    In northern Ireland we maintained large numbers of troops, (roughly 30k for about 1.5m civilians), in an attempt to try and maintain some level of control in the province. The equivalent for Gaza would be around 45k.

    Regardless of whether a different approach would have been more appropriate in NI, (as it later proved, of course), that did at least recognise some sort of responsibility for the area under our control. If you want to exercise control over an area you can't simply avoid ALL responsibility for it and then respond with ferocity and mass slaughter when somebody in the area does something you don't like.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza

    The United Nations, international human rights organizations and many legal scholars regard the Gaza Strip to still be under military occupation by Israel.[4] This is disputed by Israel and other legal scholars.[5] Following the withdrawal, Israel continued to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintains a no-go buffer zone within the territory, controls the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities.[4][6]

    Now, apparently, we're being told that they have no way of identifying ANY of the people involved in the 7th Oct attack and, despite having massively greater military superiority, they have no alternative to airstrikes, bombing and shelling, pretty much the entire area and the civilians taking shelter there.
     
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    If what they were doing was as part of an attempt to get the people involved then people would understand what's been going on but that is obviously NOT what's going on.
     
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  20. ElNaranja

    ElNaranja Member+

    Houston Dynamo
    United States
    Jul 16, 2017
    People.would most definitely NOT understand. They're not sending troops searching block by block and responding to pockets of force. They're shelling and bombing nearly at random, and if they happen to kill a few hundred civilians, they don't even offer up a fake "oops".
     
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  21. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
  22. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I'm confused by the question?

    I have repeatedly said that the only way you just add terrorist organization that is also the people who run Gaza is with love. The US and Israel lead the prop up the PLO. Do a ton of positives in the West Bank to show people that the actions by Hamas are bad. Push good things that are positives and keep moving in that direction so you can force a situation where Hamas has to either allow for elections, push back from their mission statement or something like that because you will then give people something to Believe in and therefore a life of terrorism will be less appealing. And you might be able to convince more people to speak out. This isn't new stuff. It is the most basic part of defeating a guerilla army. And yet despite numerous lessons in history, Israel is still choosing bombing and killing into submission.
     
  23. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I very much doubt any of the attacks by the Israeli army are random.
     
  24. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I am not some hippy. As stated, how have people defeated guerilla Armies time after time, they get the people to turn on them. You don't get the people to turn on them with indiscriminate killing. You do it by winning hearts and minds. Give their would be recruits something else to want. We've all heard the saying that if you want to stop crime, then lock up on all young men between 18 and 35. Now 35 is high but you know the main point is kids becoming teenagers are easy recruits for gangs and in this situation Hamas that they are easy recruits for terrorist organizations unless they're provided with other options and a bit of Hope. If I fully believe that life sucks and Israel only wants to see me suffer and die what is the stop me from listening to recruiting of Hamas.

    Honestly, as someone was real military experience which I don't have. I've only just read and studied it, I'm surprised that you're a so blinded by your emotion to view things as there must be punishment and retribution and pay back and all these things that will do nothing but continue the cycle.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How in the world is that evidence useful on a battlefield? Oh my.
     
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