Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
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    For the US, certainly. Things may be different in other countries. It largely depends on which side the centrists feel more comfortable given the country's context.
     
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  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I tell you again that my posts are about us, not Democratic leaders, would you learn it this time, finally?

    Anyway, your first sentence agrees with me, so that is progress I guess.
     
  3. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I wasn't even clear what some of those people were saying. Some seemed to be saying it was almost a 'false flag' operation whilst others gave the impression they were referring to innocents being shot by mistake in the confusion which is possible I suppose.

    I did see one report that mentioned the fact that some of the Israeli civilians had guns so if you had hamas, (who aren't in uniforms), and innocent Israelis with guns, I can see it's at least possible that somebody could be shot thinking they're a terrorist but, frankly, so WHAT?!

    There used to be a thing where the IDF were under orders to fire on people trying to kidnap solders even if it meant they might hit the guy being kidnapped but I thought they ended that policy a while back.

    I can see it's likely that some of the people killed might have been killed by 'friendly fire' as that happens in war and that's with people who ARE in uniforms. With a confused situation and with everyone in casual attire it's lot more likely I suggest.

    But I don't think it's relevant one way or the other.
     
  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm not even sure what he's saying there. I mean, he was 'too old' the LAST time as well.

    In any event if he fell off the twig the day after the election wouldn't Pamela whatever her name is be potus? What's the big deal?
     
  5. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That first guy made the same point as me...

    And what has all this death and destruction accomplished for the stated goal of destroying Hamas. Embarrassingly little: “Israel’s military estimates it has killed between 1,000 and 2,000 Hamas fighters out of a military force it believes is about 30,000 strong.” So, at the cost of between 12,000 and 14,000 civilians they have barely hurt Hamas. This is an inexact calculation obviously, but, if they are serious about destroying Hamas, and the rate of death remains comparable, then we would be looking at hundreds of thousands of deaths. At that point talk of “genocide” starts to sound less like rhetoric and more like reality.

    The thing is, as I pointed out, this discussion and calculation is based entirely on Israel's OWN FIGURES!
     
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  6. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    I need to ask some follow up questions, it’s not making much sense to me either.
     
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  7. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I mean, TBF I'm guessing these excerpts have been taken out of longer statement to make a point, (that these people are batshit crazy), so maybe there's a more coherent rationale in the longer 'version'.

    On the other hand maybe they're just crackers? :D
     
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  8. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    The big deal is that if Kamala (KAH-ma-la) was the candidate for Pres, she might have an even worse chance of winning, because racism/sexism. So then if Biden dies, you get an unpopular President. Which really doesn't matter, but it does in the US because we are dumb and treat every 4 years as a horse race and popularity contest.
     
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  9. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Can you DM the article, I dont want to sign up but it is a good read for as far I got

    @deejay your request for verification of the death toll can be found in the article.
     
  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I agree with you to the extent that the country is evenly split. We have to win in the four to five states that this matters because you have the worst election system in the world.
     
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  11. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The whole conflict has shown how bad things have gotten on the left. Not just in terms of how they aim to "Support Palestine" (substitute for any other cause of the left) but also the fact that the anti-Semitism within the left has now come out in the open. It's always been there and as virulent, but they can no longer hide it from the public eye. People now losing jobs or having their careers and reputations ruined is no surprise.

    When I see Biden holding firm against them, it is the correct course he's taken. if the left wants to keep up with this, they'll be quite alone if it heads south the next time people go to the ballot box.
     
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  12. cachundo

    cachundo Marketa Davidova. Unicorn. World Champion

    GO STANFORD!
    Feb 8, 2002
    Genesis 16:12...He shall be a wild ass among men
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What are they teaching in school ???

    ... apologies in advance if this has already been posted ...

     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I forgot where he was interviewed, but Bill Kristol** gave a really good historical perspective on all this in terms of the respective talent coming in to the parties.

    He compared the 80s and 90s (The Tom Nichols era) where talented young people with an interest say in foreign policy, would be GOP leaning. Nicholls himself has described this era a few times. But now you don't see these people because the GOP simply does not value having rational policy. Increasingly those young talents will lean D, because that is where the exciting new thinking and actual policy debates are happening. Ditto on climate, energy and other fields.

    On the other hand what you see in GOP land is a bunch of grifters because that is what works there. Kristol pointed out that competition in D land for policy or political roles is really high, whereas the GOP has a very weak bench.

    Trump reflects a hollowing out of the GOP organisation itself, whereas the reverse has happened with Democrats


    ** trigger warning
     
  14. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    which one? Josh or Ganz?
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #6665 The Jitty Slitter, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
    What does it say about how bad it has got on the right then?

    As you point out Dem leaders have stood firm, whereas Bibi invited a raging jew hater to the still fresh scene of a shocking pogrom!
     
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  16. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    #6666 Cascarino's Pizzeria, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
    Its like the The Left might attack the Capitol or chant "Jews will not replace us!"

    Anyway, people won't be voting on Gaza, dude. The economy and keeping the American Bibi out of office will be pre-eminent. Since the US is firmly pro-Israel after decades of indoctrination, Biden is still in a great spot on the issue.
     
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  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    This you?

    1 Nov 9, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2023
    Mod note : this was moved from the Israel/Hamas thread.

    Two things.

    1. Racism is bad. Not SOME racism. All racism.
    2. I’m highlighting another data point supporting my increasing apprehension that a Trump of the Left would gain more support than many of you believe.
     
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  18. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #6668 charlie15, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
    I am often confused by those wide reaching generalizations. What "left" are you talking about? Can we start using some qualifiers here like a fraction or the far left or a segment of radical left? That will help, otherwise it will he hard to take those comments seriously..
    The left in the US is the Democratic Party and anything or anybody aligned with it and on the left of it. As it is right now, they are clearly aligned behind supporting Israel and have unequivocally condemned Hamas atrocities. That some colleges students or fringe groups are expressing support for Hamas or being antisemites are in any way a reflection of the left or even the progressive movement in the States. As a matter of fact, the criticism of Israely government on the left has been rather muted even compared to inside Israel.
    Finally, that statement "that the anti-Semitism within the left has now come out in the open..It's always been there and as virulent" is not only ahistorical, it s pure garbage. The US left and the jewish community have been long time allies and the idea that there is a virulent anti semitism in the left is completely nonsensical. SMFH.....
     
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. Thanks for finding this and proving my point!
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Google Jesse Jackson hymietown

    the world is a lot more nuanced than you allow for.
     
  21. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Ganz, please.
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    TBH many on the US left have been TOO supportive of the actions of Israeli governments over the years. Even while they carried out actions that were illegal under international law they've often acted as 'enablers' to allow them to go even further.
     
  23. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, you would not know nuance if it hist you in your forehead.
    The fact that you are asking me to google Jesse Jackson and hymietown
    makes exactly my point. Jesse Jackson was ridiculed and called out in the left and was in danger of being ostracized.He had to come back and apologize profusely for it.....Know some facts....

    Oh on a related note...is Jesse the Trump of the left? I am relieved now.
     
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  24. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I am interested, is any support for Palestine now automatically antisemitic in nature? Just saying "perhaps fewer Palestinian kids should die" now also falls within those parameters? Just trying to make sense of the new rules.
     
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  25. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    You don't get it, only one side (the Left apparently) is expected to conform to certain standards.
     
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