Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds Part III. Is It Finally Over?

I don't think Israel has ever really had the will to make peace. At least since Rabbin was assassinated. What I mean by peace, is put on the table the conditions of strict equality of status and the end of all illegal occupation. So indeed, that means living in a militarized state for ever...

 

It may sound ridiculous to you because you view it from the lense that Israel is a normal state.
I am making the point that Israel is not a normal state. Its a genocidal state from my point of view. Its people are either a) genocidal or b) indifferent.
But that those people are not born bad, they are a product of a system that has has gotten them to this point.

I will concede about your second point though about the patronizing, and I will try my outmost to put my points across and at the same time refrain from sentencing it like that in the future.

 

Correct.
However I don't think there is a strict equivalence between the oppressor and the oppressed. One always bears greater responsibility than the other in colonial situations.

 

Thats putting it mildly. There is no equivalance between the occupier and occupied. The power balance is so assymetrical that the weaker party is at the total mercy of its stronger opponent.

 

Well, the intention was certainly not to patronize. But considering how he viewed it and then going back and reading my own post, I can understand it came off as patronizing. Again, that wasnt the intention.
I will be more mindful of that going forward.

I do think we are having a very intelligent conversation and exchange of thoughts (unlike some other posters that cant keep the emotions at bay). It would be good to keep it respectful, even if the subject matter is loaded and "volatile".

 

An overview of the reactions in the world on the flotilla attack by Israel:
International anger as Israel intercepts Gaza aid flotilla

By Agencies



ROME: Israeli forces have intercepted 39 boats carrying aid and foreign activists, including Swedish campaigner Greta Thunberg, to Gaza, leaving only one vessel still sailing towards the Palestinian enclave, the flotilla organizers said on Thursday.


Various governments of countries with citizens on board expressed their concern at the arrests.

Türkiye’s foreign ministry called Israel’s “attack” on the flotilla “an act of terror” that endangered the lives of innocent civilians. But Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni repeated her criticism of the attempt by those on board the flotilla to reach Gaza.

Cameras broadcasting live feeds from the boats, independently verified, showed Israeli soldiers sporting helmets and night vision goggles boarding the ships, while passengers huddled together in life vests with their hands up.

A video from the Israeli foreign ministry showed Thunberg, the most prominent of the flotilla’s passengers, sitting on a deck surrounded by soldiers.

A screengrab from a live stream video shows Israeli navy forces aboard the Gaza-bound vessel Oxygono, part of the Global Sumud Flotilla. /Global Sumud Flotilla/Handout via Reuters

According to a tracker on the organizer, Global Sumud Flotilla’s website, one boat was still sailing.

“Several vessels of the Hamas-Sumud flotilla have been safely stopped and their passengers are being transferred to an Israeli port,” the Israeli foreign ministry said on X. “Greta and her friends are safe and healthy.”


The flotilla, which set sail in late August, is transporting medicine and food to Gaza and consists of more than 40 civilian vessels with about 500 parliamentarians, lawyers and activists. It’s the highest-profile symbol of opposition to Israel’s blockade of Gaza.

The flotilla’s progress across the Mediterranean Sea garnered international attention as nations including Türkiye, Spain and Italy sent boats or drones in case their nationals required assistance, even as it triggered repeated warnings from Israel to turn back.

The Istanbul chief prosecutor’s office said it had launched an investigation into the detention of 24 Turkish citizens on the vessels on charges including deprivation of liberty, seizure of transport vehicles and damage to property, Türkiye’s state-owned Anadolu news agency reported.

Colombian President Gustavo Petro ordered the expulsion of Israel’s entire diplomatic delegation on Wednesday following the detention of two Colombians in the flotilla and terminated Colombia’s free trade agreement with Israel.

Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim condemned Israel’s actions and said Israeli forces had detained 23 Malaysians.

Israel’s interception of the flotilla sparked protests in Italy and Colombia, while demonstrations were also called in Greece, Ireland and Türkiye. Italian unions called a general strike for Friday.

Israel’s navy had previously warned the flotilla it was approaching an active combat zone and violating a lawful blockade, and asked organizers to change course. It had offered to transfer any aid peacefully through safe channels to Gaza.


The flotilla is the latest seaborne attempt to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza, much of which has been turned into a wasteland by almost two years of war.

In a statement, Hamas expressed support for the activists and called Israel’s interception of the flotilla a “criminal act”, calling for public protests to condemn Israel.

The boats were about 70 nautical miles off Gaza when they were intercepted, inside a zone that Israel is policing to stop any boats approaching. The organizers said their communications, including the use of a live camera feed from some of the boats, had been scrambled.

Greece said it has been informed that 39 boats from the flotilla are sailing to the Israeli port of Ashdod and that everyone onboard is safe, no violence was exerted, the Greek public broadcaster reported.

Greta Thunberg and members of the crew react aboard a ship, part of the Global Sumud Flotilla, as they sail off Crete island on September 25. /Stefanos Rapanis/Reuters/File

South Africa’s President Cyril Ramaphosa said on Thursday that Israel’s interception of the Global Sumud Flotilla was a “grave offence” against “global solidarity and sentiment that is aimed at relieving suffering in Gaza”.


In a statement, Ramaphosa called on Israel to immediately release South Africans and others who were on the flotilla, including liberation hero Nelson Mandela’s grandson, Nkosi Zwelivelile Mandela.

The British government is “very concerned” about Israel’s interception of an international aid flotilla bound for Gaza, the Foreign Office said on Thursday, adding that it had made clear to Israel that the situation should be resolved safely.

Australia said it stood ready to provide consular assistance to its affected citizens on board.

“Australia calls on all parties to respect international law, to ensure the safety and humane treatment of those involved,” the foreign ministry said in a statement.

Italy said that Israel had detained 22 Italians from an aid flotilla, as Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni repeated her criticism of their attempt to reach Gaza.

“Obviously we will do everything we can to ensure these people can return to Italy as soon as possible,” Meloni told reporters at a European Union meeting in Denmark.

But she added that “I continue to believe that all this brings no benefit to the Palestinian people”.

Two Italian members of parliament and two Italian members of the European Parliament participated in the flotilla.

The flotilla had hoped to arrive in Gaza on Thursday morning if it was not intercepted.

Israeli officials have repeatedly denounced the mission as a stunt.

Israel has imposed a naval blockade on Gaza since Hamas took control of the coastal enclave in 2007 and there have been several previous attempts by activists to deliver aid by sea.


Organizers of Global Sumud Flotilla, which is transporting medicine and food to Gaza, said earlier that Israeli navy forces stopped several of its boats, and that they were using “active aggression”.

 

I completely understand what he's saying and I agree with what he says about existence of anti-semitism before zionism.
My whole point is that WE call the sentiment around the Gaza war anti-semitism, and I specify it into the one based on the bigotry of the west and the one now ADDED in the world that had nothing to do with the old fashioned one. It's US calling it anti-semitism, but in fact a better word should be anti-Israelism because of the treatment of the Palestines, just like the Vietnam war sentiment was called anti-Americanism.
Bibi labels protests around the world about what he's doing anti-semitism, we in the west are singing the same tune in his choir, which in fact means we are sticking our own filthy bigotry label on protests in the non-western countries to smear it with an eons old heritage of our own.
Of course he's right Jews in general in the USA or elsewhere shouldnot be held accountable for what bibi and his gang are doing.
The only ones that should be held accoutable are those who fully support what bibi is doing in Gaza and actively contribute to it.
But that goes beyond just Jews and includes many western politicians and citizens.

What I find disgusting from him is the narrative "look what atrocities are being done by islamists/muslims without them being held accountable as muslims".
Fokking imbecil, has he been lying under a rock for a couple of decades, as we have politicians who run high in the polls, riding exactly that horse of group blaming for decades now.
We have a word for it, it's called islamophoby.
And it's as lethal as anti-semitism, as we have been murdering in our empire building centuries millions of muslims. Demographic experts have calculated at least a million children in Iraq died because of our sanctions in the whole anti whatever war.

Billions of Asians and Africans, who have nothing to do with Holocaust generating anti-semitism/nor have been part of pogroms/Holocaust are disgusted by what they see being done to the Gaza people, with the help of the west and hate the perpetrators for it.
And it doesnot help that the symbol flying high over the atrocities became a symbol of war crimes and genocide to the non western world.
Mopping these people on the same dunnheap as the anti-semites of the west is putting blinders on to ignore the reality out there.

 

By the way, Yasik, you never have to explain nor apologize for some comment to me, because I regard you as one of the few sincere posting people on this matter and post by you I never regard as a personal attack.

 

I don't think you can ask a Jew to denounce Israel or the Gaza war, as one should think anybody with a sense of humanity doesnot feel good about what is happening. By asking that, you're being asked to prove you're the good guy, which I find repulsive.
The ones you can confront are the ones who actually do support the atrocities.
I a long time ago now in the other thread posted I'm not against Zionism, when it is done in the way the pioneers did it, simply buying the land in the holy land. Nobody can object to that.

 

Gaza reconstruction could take 350 years: 'The challenges are enormous'
We can all see it: it seems as if nothing is left standing in Gaza. Two years of war have turned the area into an apocalyptic wasteland. Slowly cleaning up can now begin. But how? Where do you start? And how long will it take? According to the UN, there are 61 million tons of rubble. "And a very large truck holds twenty tons," says architect Job Schroën. "So do the math."

 

Nothing is going to last until they get an international peacekeeping force in there long term.

 

You’re correct, but this is likely to be a complete nonstarter for Israel.